STEVE WAUGH overated ? choker?

[rod_rooster]

mark might not of made as many runs but he took alot more wickets and catches .... catches win matches !!

Mark took more catches but you might want to check the wicket tallies again you dopey prick.

[am Bays]

mark might not of made as many runs but he took alot more wickets and catches .... catches win matches !!

Mark took more catches but you might want to check the wicket tallies again you dopey prick.

Language Rodney!!! Obviously T-shirt Tommy is srtuggling in the batting arguement so is lloking for another point of attack on one of greatest ever cricketers...

Tommy: 20 wickets win's matches.......

Seriously folks, I know SR Waugh aint perfect by 10 000 + runs @ > 50, 92 wickets @ 37.44 for a batsman who rarely bowled in a test after 1994 and 112 catches is a fair career in anyones language.

Statistics don't tell the full story the number of times he put his hand up and did the hard yards to the runs on the board so McDermott and Hughes (first half of his career), Warne and McGrath (2nd half of his career) could bowl to them is numerous.

No coincidence he was man of the series in the series that put us on top of the world West indies 1995 and then contributed numerous times to us staying on top, Sth Africa 1997, West indies 1999, numerous ASHES series, Pakistan 1998 etc

Fair dinkum the man deserves to sit at the head table at the reunion of the 397 test cricketers we have had.

[heater31]

havent heard much about steves talents with the cherry , maybe because opposition batsmen used to help themselves to his buffett balls .

Single handedly won the 87 world cup in India with the ball bowling at the death, If you were any knowledgeable cricket follower you would know that is how he got his nickname of the Iceman

[the wonder elephant]

honestly hafey read my previous post and with out wasting everyones time its still the same .leave one of our greatest ever cricketers alone he would be the greatest ever captian to wear the baggy green .would be in the best 5 players to play 4 australia as well behind only the don ,warnie , dk and maybe pidge or gilly

[Rik E Boy]

Do not feed the troll gentlemen, but pity him if he is genuinely ignorant. He makes a strong case for the latter.

regards,

REB

[Hafey]

Do not feed the troll gentlemen, but pity him if he is genuinely ignorant. He makes a strong case for the latter.

regards,

REB

I enjoy this board as it covers my two favorite loves , football and cricket ( wouldnt let mrs hafey hear that ) . I can have my say whether you think its right or wrong , i gather alot of the guys on this board are younger then myslef so of course there will be conflicting opinions .

I have never attacked anyone or there opinions , i state my opinion and enjoy the odd harmless debate .

[Rik E Boy]

Do not feed the troll gentlemen, but pity him if he is genuinely ignorant. He makes a strong case for the latter.

regards,

REB

I enjoy this board as it covers my two favorite loves , football and cricket ( wouldnt let mrs hafey hear that ) . I can have my say whether you think its right or wrong , i gather alot of the guys on this board are younger then myslef so of course there will be conflicting opinions .

I have never attacked anyone or there opinions , i state my opinion and enjoy the odd harmless debate .

Absolutey. It just appears to me that you seem to be fishing all the time, but I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time).

regards,

REB

[am Bays]

Okay Gentlemen time to kill this argument once and for-all....

Mal here is your wish the cricketers with the largest different in 1st and 2nd dig averages....

As you can see Mal, S waugh is a long way down this list...behind the Sherminator (Bell), Ponsford, Shewag, Hassett and Everton Weekes to name but a few...

Biggest difference in batting average in the first innings over the second innings - Tests (qualification: 10 innings in each)

Player Span Inns1 Runs Ave 100 Inns2 Runs Ave 100 Diff
JF Reid (NZ) 1979-1986 19 1163 68.41 6 12 133 12.09 0 56.320
J Hardstaff jnr (Eng) 1935-1948 23 1289 64.45 4 15 347 23.13 0 41.316
Hon FS Jackson (Eng) 1893-1905 20 1156 64.22 5 13 259 23.54 0 40.676
V Sehwag (ICC/India) 2001-2007 52 3374 64.88 12 35 781 24.40 0 40.478
IR Bell (Eng) 2004-2007 29 1421 59.20 6 23 484 22.00 0 37.208
WH Ponsford (Aus) 1924-1934 29 1710 61.07 7 19 412 25.75 0 35.321
ED Weekes (WI) 1948-1958 48 3429 71.43 14 33 1026 36.64 1 34.794
BC Broad (Eng) 1984-1989 25 1336 53.43 6 19 325 19.11 0 34.322
AL Hassett (Aus) 1938-1953 43 2435 57.97 9 26 638 26.58 1 31.392
TT Samaraweera (SL) 2001-2006 38 1724 52.24 5 20 365 21.47 0 30.771
Zaheer Abbas (Pak) 1969-1985 77 3977 56.01 11 47 1085 25.83 1 30.180
FMM Worrell (WI) 1948-1963 51 2843 61.80 9 36 1017 31.78 0 30.023
SR Waugh (Aus) 1985-2004 166 8558 60.69 30 94 2369 32.45 2 28.242
CC McDonald (Aus) 1952-1961 47 2380 50.63 5 36 727 22.71 0 27.919
WA Brown (Aus) 1934-1948 22 1204 57.33 3 13 388 29.84 1 27.487


Full article here.....http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/columns/content/current/story/305835.html

[heater31]

Thread Closed

[Killa]

Rated as the best captain more than just a player.

[Ecky]

Thread Closed

Not at all, on the other hand that article only increases the "choker" tag in my mind.

Steve Waugh has the biggest drop in second innings average out of all batsmen who have batted 50 or more times in the second innings!

[mal]

I in all sincerity regret posting this topic
I was on the site for 8 days when making this disrespectful post
To be right is also being wrong
If I win the case I lose respect from too many on SAFOOTY
I posted this for a friend who reads the site at the time

SUMMARY AFTER 16 MONTHS ON THE TOPIC
------------------------------------------

SW is without peer the most courageous player I have seen in modern times
His efforts in setting up numerous victories, in the first innings when most needed is Bradmanesque
His ability to inspire his team-mates with his mental approach to cricket and his batting is amazing
As LANGER [I think] once said you would walk thru a brick wall for SW
As a captain was inspirational.
Was an underated bowler and when younger was almost considered an allrounder
As a bowler in O/D cricket he was one of the first to revolutionise the art of the slower ball.
He was one of my favourite players, he epitimises everything I wanted in my cricket career

BUT

The original post was ....STEVE WAUGH over-rated ? choker ?

I brought in what I thought was a compelling fact
His last innings efforts for one so good were well below his standards
The stats brought up by SPELLY/TASSIE provide statistical evidence of sorts to my post

Was he a choker batting last chasing totals ?
Thats my question

I think it might have been perhaps a technical defeincy being a pronounced back foot player ?
On bouncier truer first innings wickets he was superb
In the last innings when the ball was keeping lower and deviated more as a rule he did struggle ?

SO

SW = CHAMP
MAL = CHUMP for posting this defamitive discussion

[mighty_tiger_79]

If I win the case I lose respect from too many on SAFOOTY

respect - you think people respect you MAL????

you need a reality check ol' man!!!!!!!!

[spell_check]

If I win the case I lose respect from too many on SAFOOTY

respect - you think people respect you MAL????

you need a reality check ol' man!!!!!!!!

Respect (or lack of) on a website does not necessarily make the person behind the posts a bad one. It was a pleasure for SPELL CHECK to meet MAL today (although briefly), and while I'm still not convinced on this subject, it does make for some interesting discussion, which is what MAL (and what this website) was/is after.

This thread won't go away!

[mal]

If I win the case I lose respect from too many on SAFOOTY

respect - you think people respect you MAL????

you need a reality check ol' man!!!!!!!!

Respect (or lack of) on a website does not necessarily make the person behind the posts a bad one. It was a pleasure for SPELL CHECK to meet MAL today (although briefly), and while I'm still not convinced on this subject, it does make for some interesting discussion, which is what MAL (and what this website) was/is after.

This thread won't go away!

In the end Spelly he played on grounds with green grass and boundary ropes or fences[ ]
and that was the scene of his test innings.
I wish I used the word deficient in the last innings digs and not over-rated + choker

[GWW]

If I win the case I lose respect from too many on SAFOOTY

respect - you think people respect you MAL????

you need a reality check ol' man!!!!!!!!

Respect (or lack of) on a website does not necessarily make the person behind the posts a bad one. It was a pleasure for SPELL CHECK to meet MAL today (although briefly), and while I'm still not convinced on this subject, it does make for some interesting discussion, which is what MAL (and what this website) was/is after.

This thread won't go away!

In the end Spelly he played on grounds with green grass and boundary ropes or fences[ ]
and that was the scene of his test innings.
I wish I used the word deficient in the last innings digs and not over-rated + choker

Dont lie mal, you just wanted to make a big impact a week or so after signing up on the site

[mal]

GWW
Confession time
TRUE

I was reading this site for a few months and wanted to introduce a controversial topic
My mate was going to join and post this topic but didnt + got me to post it.

[GWW]

GWW
Confession time
TRUE

I was reading this site for a few months and wanted to introduce a controversial topic
My mate was going to join and post this topic but didnt + got me to post it.

Hehe i thought so mal, so it seems we cant really blame you for that MALicious post

[Hondo]

The ABC running sheet thread on the SANFL board may one day rival the longevity of this thread