GILchrist v HADDIN

[mal]

Australias greatest ever Batting wicketkeeper Adam GILchrist might just be under a
sMALl incey wincey bit of pressure this season to perform and keep at bay the
batting sensation Brad Haddin.

Could this season present gilCHRIST with his biggest challenge since his career started.
Without a shadow of doubt the runs that Haddin has piled up in the last 2 years is
being noticed by the public and most importantly the selectors.
Haddin is playing in the o/d International games purely as a batsman
Haddins form in India was brilliant
Haddin is a centurion in his last Pura Cup game
Haddin is a centurion 138 not out of 116 balls in his last o/d game
GILchrist is still batting well, but he is probably now slipping due to old age.

GILchrist will be facing a menu of spin in this International summer in the test matches
He does at times does struggle v good spinners when he starts an innings
Muralichucker /Kumble/Singh will cause him a few headaches this season.
If he does fail with the bat.........

Haddin is in the Macgill unlucky catergory
If there was no gilCHRIST he may well have been close to the premier batting
keeper in the Universe as we know it.
SANGAKARRA is the best keeper batter after GilCHRIST
After those 2 Haddin may well be the 3rd best.

Is this GILchrists last season ?
That would avoid a confrontation for the selectors if Haddin continues to prosper.

hmn....

[the joker]

GILchrist will be facing a menu of spin in this International summer in the test matches
He does at times does struggle v good spinners when he starts an innings
Muralichucker /Kumble/Singh will cause him a few headaches this season.
If he does fail with the bat.........

SANGAKARRA is the best keeper batter after GilCHRIST
After those 2 Haddin may well be the 3rd best.



hmn....

Gilchrist is an excelent player of spin. averages 40 in sri lanka and india. but he does only have 3 of his 17 hundreds against those two nations. but just remember how good he played Monty last year. as for Haddin being the third best keeper what about Mark Boucher. and also Brendon McCullum is a very good keeper. but gilly has to keep getting runs because haddin is a very good player. after gilly and haddin we have tim paine and at only 22 i exspect him to play a few times for australia. and also hartley is also a good keeper

[am Bays]

from someone who knows a bit about the caper....

http://www.theage.com.au/news/cricket/gilly-glove-affair-in-bloom/2007/11/03/1193619208491.html

His comments about Manou are interesting likewise his comments on a bloke I really rated a year ago but must admit has failed to kick on as much as I thought he might Hartley.

Mind you Hartley's pretty young and has time to develop his glovework and batting further - certainly much mkore than Manou IMHO.

Back to the post in question (Mals) the only way HAddin will play tis year is if Gilly gets injured. Gilchrist ahs so many selection credits it ain't funny. He could have a stinker of a summer and he'll still get picked for every game.

[Hondo]

I think we are asking to much of Gilly these days in making him open the batting and keep in ODIs

So that's where I would start - leave Gilly for the tests and let Haddin play ODI's

Gilly gets a break to extend his test career and Brad gets some opp to play for Australia

[Aerie]

I think Gilchrist will retire in Adelaide - along with Hayden and we'll also see Tendulkar play his last Test in Australia at The Oval.

Gilly could go on as long as he wants IMO. His performances are still outstanding for a keeper/batsman. Haddin looks a great cricketer and is unlucky to have Gilchrist, as Gilchrist was unlucky to have Healy, cemented in the Test team.

We should still see 4 years of Test cricket from Haddin and probably a pretty good record by the end of it.

[Rik E Boy]

I don't reckon Hayden will retire because he had to knock on the door for so long. I reckon he wouldn't mind another crack at England in England.

regards,

REB

[rod_rooster]

Haddin may well play for Australia in the Test arena even while Gilchrist is in the side. Capapble of playing purely as a batsman IMHO. If Symonds struggles that could be the spot.

[Killa]

Haddin will never play test as a keeper when gilly retires it must go to a younger player. The younger players are playing well know and will improve.
SA- None
WA- Ronchi
QLD- Hartley
NSW- ?
Vic- Wade, Croswaite
Tas- Payne

All players are young

[rod_rooster]

Haddin will never play test as a keeper when gilly retires it must go to a younger player. The younger players are playing well know and will improve.
SA- None
WA- Ronchi
QLD- Hartley
NSW- ?
Vic- Wade, Croswaite
Tas- Payne

All players are young

Rubbish. It must go to the best available player.

[locky801]

Quite simple really, at the end of this Australian summer Gilchrist will retire (basically he has already stated this) only one replacement, HADDIN

[redden whites]

Brendon McCullum is a very good keeper.

and thus the name joker.....you must be taking the mickey surely?

[tedbullpit]

Haddin is good enough to play as a batsman alone. Surely if someone goes down or loses form he'd have to be the next cab off the rank?

[Pup]

Haddin will never play test as a keeper when gilly retires it must go to a younger player. The younger players are playing well know and will improve.
SA- None
WA- Ronchi
QLD- Hartley
NSW- ?
Vic- Wade, Croswaite
Tas- Payne

All players are young

Not true at all, Gilchrist will retire in the next 18 months IMO and Haddin will still have 4-5 years at the top level left. Plus he is the best player available.

From your players

Ronchi- Is not ready, His batting is hit and miss and his glove work is not up to International standard.

Hartley- Has stagnated in the past 18 months and is really back with the pack, is young and has a big up side but still needs a lot of work.

Wade- Has played less than 5 state games, is not in the same league as Haddin and co. Needs time to prove himself.

Crossy- Has had trouble with his batting only making one first class fifty in the last year and a half. The way things are looking will be the second keeper for Victoria soon, so how you think he could be an Australian prospect is amazing.

Paine- I Love this kid, i reckon he is a beauty but saying that he is not playing in the 4 day form of the game and struggles to bat and keep. Has an enormous future and if he can get his glovework up to scratch and continue to improve his batting then i hope he plays after Brad Haddin.

IMO Brad Haddin will inevitably play for Australia at the test level maybe even sooner than people think.

[Killa]

Gilly will play for another two years.
It is better for Australia cricket to play a younger bloke instead of playing Haddin. There will be 'too' players at one age. It is better playing the 23 to 25 year olds instead of 30 years old. This is the reason why Australia stayed at the top for so long by bringing in a younger player. Australian cricketis in trouble, past your eyes back when at least '5' first team players retired from test cricket, Australia struggled for many of years. Most of the states keepers are young and still learning the game, with when you get this age it starts to change.

[Rik E Boy]

Gilly will play for another two years.
It is better for Australia cricket to play a younger bloke instead of playing Haddin. There will be 'too' players at one age. It is better playing the 23 to 25 year olds instead of 30 years old. This is the reason why Australia stayed at the top for so long by bringing in a younger player. Australian cricketis in trouble, past your eyes back when at least '5' first team players retired from test cricket, Australia struggled for many of years. Most of the states keepers are young and still learning the game, with when you get this age it starts to change.

A very simplistic view Killa. The retirements of Chappell, Lillee and Marsh were only part of the reason why Australia struggled. Other factors that contributed to this struggle were...

1. The West Indian Juggernaught. If we had the luxury of playing even an ordinary side during the first home summer after the retirement of the 'big three' we could have given younger players more time to develop at the highest level. We were smashed to oblivion and it cost Australia it's captain only one season after the retirement of the big three. Last time I checked, Punter was still there and there are no Juggernaughts to smash the non existent wave of newbies wearing the baggy green.

2. All or Nothing: Back in 1983/84 you were more likely to be playing test AND one day cricket. While there were a few exceptions, you played both if you were good enough. Now we have a one day and test team which makes talent identification and succession planning a more exact science. It also leads to an extension of careers, which leads to a raise in age of debutant internationals.

3. The South African raids: A year after being smashed in back to back series against one of the best sides in history, Australia went on to tour England in 1985 when guys like Yallop, Hughes, Hogg and most importantly Alderman were snaffled to play in the rebel test tour of South Africa. So Australia didn't lose just the 'big three', they lost the 'big seven'. Our attack was wafer thin during that season and Gower, Gooch and Gatting had a field day. The current set up is a united one.

The conditions that contributed to Australia's decline are simply not applicable in the current world of international cricket. While you don't replace a Warne, McGrath and Langer overnight I'd suggest that Australia isn't 'in trouble' just yet. We will draw more matches, but I don't believe we'll start losing test matches - especially at home. Warne in particular gave us the winning edge. Saying that we need to bring in younger players instead of a Haddin is precisely what we did in the 1980's when we handed out caps to players such as Robbie Kerr, Dave Gilbert and Simon Davis just to name a few. By making players wait until they are more experienced, you get ready made international players. Haddin deserves his shot, but obviously it won't be a reign that lasts as long as a Healy, Marsh or Gilly. But if he's the best batsman (and he is) he'll get the gig and rightly so.

regards,

REB

[Hondo]

Agree with REB

The decline in Aussie cricket started earlier than the end of the 1983-84 season and all REB's points are valid to explain it. I'd add one more being the impact of World Series Cricket and the extra playing burden in those early years post WSC burnt some players out + the depth was tested when a lot of the WSC players were shunned on their return to the establishment. Gary Gilmour is a good example of this.

The retirements of Marsh, Lilliee and Chappell wasn't the sole reason for the drop-off, maybe more the icing on the cake. The late 80s saw the development of the Cricket Academy which I think was another gap in the old system. I heard Marshy in an interview saying that he simply couldn't face the Windies away in 1984 and then at home again in 84-85. The ACB's desire to cash in on the Windies' popularity definitely was to the detriment of Aussie cricket at the time. Kim Hughes' test average dropped from 44 to 37 over the course of those 2 series.

Interestingly Marsh, Lille and Chappell (and I Chappell before them) were all around 32-34 when they retired which is not old by today's standards (Ponting is about their age now and shows no signs of retiring). By the retirement-age standards of the early 80s Punter, Haydo, Gilly, and MacGill would all be gone by now and the Huss would be very close to retirement.

So back to the topic ..... If Haddin is the best available option then he should be played rather than just playing a young bloke before he is ready just for the sake of dropping the average age of the team. Its more common these days for players to start later and play longer.

[Dirko]

Interestingly Marsh, Lille and Chappell (and I Chappell before them) were all around 32-34 when they retired which is not old by today's standards (Ponting is about their age now and shows no signs of retiring). By the retirement-age standards of the early 80s Punter, Haydo, Gilly, and MacGill would all be gone by now and the Huss would be very close to retirement.

Also would have a fair bit to do with the $$$ the players earn now. WHy retire when you can still make big money ?

IMO I think Gilchrist should see out this summer at one day level, then retire from that game and give Haddin a crack. Retire from tests at the end of 2008/09 summer...

[Killa]

Agree with REB

The decline in Aussie cricket started earlier than the end of the 1983-84 season and all REB's points are valid to explain it. I'd add one more being the impact of World Series Cricket and the extra playing burden in those early years post WSC burnt some players out + the depth was tested when a lot of the WSC players were shunned on their return to the establishment. Gary Gilmour is a good example of this.

The retirements of Marsh, Lilliee and Chappell wasn't the sole reason for the drop-off, maybe more the icing on the cake. The late 80s saw the development of the Cricket Academy which I think was another gap in the old system. I heard Marshy in an interview saying that he simply couldn't face the Windies away in 1984 and then at home again in 84-85. The ACB's desire to cash in on the Windies' popularity definitely was to the detriment of Aussie cricket at the time. Kim Hughes' test average dropped from 44 to 37 over the course of those 2 series.

Interestingly Marsh, Lille and Chappell (and I Chappell before them) were all around 32-34 when they retired which is not old by today's standards (Ponting is about their age now and shows no signs of retiring). By the retirement-age standards of the early 80s Punter, Haydo, Gilly, and MacGill would all be gone by now and the Huss would be very close to retirement.
So back to the topic ..... If Haddin is the best available option then he should be played rather than just playing a young bloke before he is ready just for the sake of dropping the average age of the team. Its more common these days for players to start later and play longer.

To me that is excuses, where australia is in trouble is depth and the underage aussie side was smashed in pakistan. Haddin is the choice at the moment.

[heater31]

To me that is excuses, where australia is in trouble is depth and the underage aussie side was smashed in pakistan. Haddin is the choice at the moment.

Sub continent nations are always strong at u/19 level Australia seems to get the most out of their potential with the Academy and our strong First class scene. Heaven forbid when the Pakistanis/Indians get it right they will smash every one like Australia have