Why is he in the side

[am Bays]

Mal, if Barrie, told Punky, or any North supporter for that matter, to barrack for the Bays they would.....

For a North supporter not to take Barries words as gospel is blasphemous.....

I'm appreciating the irony of posting this on a Sunday

[Punk Rooster]

Mal, if Barrie, told Punky, or any North supporter for that matter, to barrack for the Bays they would.....

That would be a serious test of faith- one I would fail!

[-]

I am happy to play watson however he is not a 7. His bowling isnt up to it and other part timers seem as economical. So mabee if he cant bat 7 he shouldnt be there? However we have no symonds, Whites bowling is worse so we have to have someone bowling the junk 10.

Watson will be a quality test batsman. His average of 50 at sheild level is good evidence he will be.

[-]

Remember when Symonds was a lovechild? He eventually came through.

[-]

Clarke (not yet there), Ponting, the waugh brothers all love childs and came through.

At test level if Lehmann, Bevan, Elliot got the extended opportunities of the love childs they probably would have had better records than mark waugh (42 very modest).

[Adelaide Hawk]

Mark Waugh supplemented his modest batting average with superb close to the wicket catching, so he was worth more than a player with an average of 52 who wasn't sharp in the field. You just can't point to averages as evidence of a player's worth, you have to weigh up the whole package.

[rod_rooster]

Attention MAL:
Shane Watson has failed to impress the following people-
Barrie Robran (Barrie sledged his selection on the http://www.nafc.com.au recently, & Barrie is not in the habit of making rash, foolish statements)
Terry Jenner sledged him in this weeks Sportsbeat.
99.8% of contributors of the Cricket room sledge his selection.
A mate of mine who played representative Cricket in the mid-north & Alice Springs (anyone know "Mullo" or "Muggins" ) says Watson's bowling is that pedestrian, he could hit him out of the MCG at age 48.

What I want to know Mal is; when are you going to accept you've made a blue with Watson, & concede that the selectors are flogging a dead horse with their golden boy?

Refer MAL post on this topic
FEB 16
11-18PM

Can PUNK and the WATSON KLUX KLAN respond [not one person has yet]

mal, refer to my post on this topic Feb 17 9:01am.

[rod_rooster]

Justin Langer on the radio a fortnight ago said Shane Watson is going
to be the superstar of Australian cricket in the next few years.

I've already responded to that previously mal. Too many knocks to the head for poor old Justin.

[rod_rooster]

You just can't point to averages as evidence of a player's worth, you have to weigh up the whole package.

Hooray, finally some sense. I've been trying to point this out to mal in particular for some time. Haven't got much response though. Just keeps telling everyone to look at stats to justify his cause.

[mal]

ROD
I asked RB00 + PUNK what is the expectation of the number 7 + 5th bowler
in o/d internationals, they both have either neglected to answer my question
or perhaps cant answer the question, either way that can be construed as negligence.

I want to ask now for OTHERS who have the courage or conviction to answer the
question that RB00 has not answered and PUNK refuses to answer.

########################################################
WHAT CAN WE EXPECT A NUMBER 7 BATSMAN + 5TH BOWLER TO DO IN O/D CRICKET. ?
########################################################

When people answer this question I can then put the WATSON allrounding
perspective into a clearer picture.

I am very interested in what ECKY/RODROOSTER/ADELAIDEHAWK/REB have to say
as I consider these 4 guys of having cricket knowledge.
Theres others who know thier cricket but cant name all off of you ...too many.

[rod_rooster]

ROD
I asked RB00 + PUNK what is the expectation of the number 7 + 5th bowler
in o/d internationals, they both have either neglected to answer my question
or perhaps cant answer the question, either way that can be construed as negligence.

I want to ask now for OTHERS who have the courage or conviction to answer the
question that RB00 has not answered and PUNK refuses to answer.

########################################################
WHAT CAN WE EXPECT A NUMBER 7 BATSMAN + 5TH BOWLER TO DO IN O/D CRICKET. ?
########################################################

When people answer this question I can then put the WATSON allrounding
perspective into a clearer picture.

I am very interested in what ECKY/RODROOSTER/ADELAIDEHAWK/REB have to say
as I consider these 4 guys of having cricket knowledge.

As i said previously mal, refer to my post on this topic Feb 17 9:01am.

While your at it have a look at the NZ/AUS Chappell Hadlee Game 1 thread. Page 3.

[mal]

REDANDBLACK

In your opinion what would you expect a number 7 batsman to
deliver in a career spanning 50 O/D games
what average would be acceptable ?

In your opinion what would you expect the 5th bowler to average
with the ball in a career spanning 50 odd O/D games ?
what average would be acceptable ?

Work the sums out and then tell me if WATSON is a hack.

PS as an opening batsman he averages 37-5 as well.

Once again with the averages mal I don't expect any particular average i just expect him to show some promise with at least one of bat or ball. He simply doesn't do enough with the bat (especially when he is needed) and with the ball despite the fact (as you continue to point out) he bowls at around 140km's that doesn't mean jack at international level particularly when you serve up 4 balls on such a regular basis. Your other man Hopes would be a better option IMHO but he still needs more time to develop yet.

Yeah OK that might be an explanation of WATSONS worth.
Just forget about WATSON and then try and be objective about my question.

This applies to all players world wide.
WHAT WOULD YOU EXPECT A NUMBER 7 BATSMAN + THE 5TH BOWLER TO DO IN O/D GAMES.

[rod_rooster]

REDANDBLACK

In your opinion what would you expect a number 7 batsman to
deliver in a career spanning 50 O/D games
what average would be acceptable ?

In your opinion what would you expect the 5th bowler to average
with the ball in a career spanning 50 odd O/D games ?
what average would be acceptable ?

Work the sums out and then tell me if WATSON is a hack.

PS as an opening batsman he averages 37-5 as well.

Once again with the averages mal I don't expect any particular average i just expect him to show some promise with at least one of bat or ball. He simply doesn't do enough with the bat (especially when he is needed) and with the ball despite the fact (as you continue to point out) he bowls at around 140km's that doesn't mean jack at international level particularly when you serve up 4 balls on such a regular basis. Your other man Hopes would be a better option IMHO but he still needs more time to develop yet.

Yeah OK that might be an explanation of WATSONS worth.
Just forget about WATSON and then try and be objective about my question.

This applies to all players world wide.
WHAT WOULD YOU EXPECT A NUMBER 7 BATSMAN + THE 5TH BOWLER TO DO IN O/D GAMES.

I'd expect a guy batting at 7 to be able to hit out when the time is right (the way Cam White did today) but doesn't necessarily have to bowl 10 overs. I'd like the 5th lot of 10 overs to be bowled tightly and not be cannon fodder like a certain no. 7 currently is. The 10 overs can be shared and this has worked successfully in the past.

I'd also like the no. 7 to be capable of batting a long sensible innings if the side is in trouble. Watson may be able to do this on occassions but not consistently enough but i can't see him smashing attacks all over the place in the late overs.

[mal]

Thanks for a good answer ROD + wouldnt every team like the player
that you have described.

Number 7s world wide generally face overs 35 to 40 onwards
By definition by rotation of the strike they would face about 37 balls on average
So a great number 7 can expct to excel and score 50 runs pending the innings situation
A fair number 7 about a run a ball for 37 runs
This is inculded amongst failures
Sometimes they come in earlier, sometimes with very few overs to go
Using that formula number 7s should average about 20-25 runs in a career.

The 5th bowler generally comes on at over 15 to 25
Most sides make about 8/250 in 50 overs as a benchmark
on average you can expect the 5th bowler to take 1/50 or 2/50
Using that formula a 5th bowler would average about 35 with the ball

So most world number 7 batters = batting ave 22 for a pass mark
So most number 5 bowlers = bowling average of about 35 for a pass mark

If your number 7 batsman + 5th bowler averages 30 with bat and ball
that is acceptable and deserves his spot in the team.

Thats why WATSON has played over 50 games for AU
and thats why the selectors continue to pick him.

[rod_rooster]

Thanks for a good answer ROD + wouldnt every team like the player
that you have described.

Number 7s world wide generally face overs 35 to 40 onwards
By definition by rotation of the strike they would face about 37 balls on average
So a great number 7 can expct to excel and score 50 runs pending the innings situation
A fair number 7 about a run a ball for 37 runs
This is inculded amongst failures
Sometimes they come in earlier, sometimes with very few overs to go
Using that formula number 7s should average about 20-25 runs in a career.

The 5th bowler generally comes on at over 15 to 25
Most sides make about 8/250 in 50 overs as a benchmark
on average you can expect the 5th bowler to take 1/50 or 2/50
Using that formula a 5th bowler would average about 35 with the ball

So most world number 7 batters = batting ave 22 for a pass mark
So most number 5 bowlers = bowling average of about 35 for a pass mark

If your number 7 batsman + 5th bowler averages 30 with bat and ball
that is acceptable and deserves his spot in the team.

Thats why WATSON has played over 50 games for AU
and thats why the selectors continue to pick him.

There are plenty of big hitters who can bowl a few overs. As i indicated the 5th bowler option does not have to be just one player. Watson simply does not fit into the no. 7 position as a batsman and he isn't that good a bowler, a fact you have acknowledged by suggesting he will be more of a batsmen as his career progresses.

[mal]

WATSON maybe a better test player batting 6 and a 5th bowler.

In o/d games he does a job and is just succeeding.
The crunch time will be the world cup
He is established and needs to improve his fluency and score quicker as a batsman
Also needs to keep chipping in with servicable bowling efforts.

Never forget he is the 7th best batsman and the 5th best bowler
and never expect those guys to be the best player in the side.
But he bats better than 8-9-10-11
And he bowls better than the other 6 batsmen

[rod_rooster]

WATSON maybe a better test player batting 6 and a 5th bowler.

In o/d games he does a job and is just succeeding.
The crunch time will be the world cup
He is established and needs to improve his fluency and score quicker as a batsman
Also needs to keep chipping in with servicable bowling efforts.

Never forget he is the 7th best batsman and the 5th best bowler
and never expect those guys to be the best player in the side.
But he bats better than 8-9-10-11
And he bowls better than the other 6 batsmen

I'd argue that with Brett Lee in the side he doesn't bat better than 8 especially in the late overs.

Remember there is no way in hell he is the 7th best batsman available to play for Australia nor is he anywhere near the 5th best bowler available. If Australia is to have any hope in the World Cup, Roy needs to come good, as does Michael Clarke so Watson doesn't play. With Watson in the side we are no chance.

PS - That comment could come back and haunt me i know and i am sure mal will be the first to bring it up if we win the World Cup with Watson playing.

[mal]

No no no ROD
7TH BEST BAT 5TH BEST BOWLER IN THE SIDE PLAYING.

[SOTTERS]

Get off Watsons back, he's going ok after injury, our best bowler today.

Jaques - Batting like a hack
Hogg - Bowling like a hack
White - Bowling like a hack

[rod_rooster]

No no no ROD
7TH BEST BAT 5TH BEST BOWLER IN THE SIDE PLAYING.

I know that's what you meant mal. I was just pointing out he isn't the best option available.