Daniel Vettori

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Re: Daniel Vettori

Postby Grahaml » Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:04 pm

Bulls forever wrote:
Grahaml wrote:I can come up with a bunch of reasons why things are easier for Vettori than Hauritz too. Always gets a chance to bat how he likes, no smashing the ball around to set a target and sacrificing wickets before a declaration; Doesn't have to worry about his spot; Being the best and most dangerous bowler NZ have most of the time the batsmen don't look to attack him so much; Always gets to bowl to the tail and when the deck is good to bowl on (Aussie quicks tend to get the lion's share of the best times to bowl); Plays a lot more tests against the likes of Bangladesh.

All in all, though, I think the average speaks volumes. Vettori is widely respected mostly because the rest of the NZ side is so poor. Not sure we'd be talking about Vettori's batting like we do if he always had blokes ahead of him averaging 50.


G - Vettori gets selected, Horrie doesn't - STOP THERE.

Not sure I agree with your thread, is always batting under pressure because NZ top order is crap, has no quality bowler at the other end to pressure batsman, I could go on, I think you could argue till the sun comes up. IMO he is definately a better cricketer than Horrie, but I think Horrie is the best we have the moment and very unlucky.

I think a lot of posters are too young to remember a bloke called Glen Turner - NZ legendary cricketer, who made squillions of runs in country cricket, but wouldn't play Tests for quite some time. Hence I rate young Danny No. 4 in NZ cricket 1. Sir Richard 2. Glen Turner 3. Martin Crowe 4. Danny boy.


Ah, so anyone who gets picked for NZ must be better than someone who doesn't get picked for Australia?

The point of my post was that trying to say who has it harder or easier in an actual match is so wishy washy that you can make the same thing either a benefit or a drawback. In the end, the records speak volumes.
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Re: Daniel Vettori

Postby Media Park » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:14 am

I am only going to make one comment in comparing the decent FC spinner Hauritz, with the Test standard Vettori, and it is stats as Captain:

DL Vettori: 32 Test Matches, 1916 runs at 39.91 (four centuries), 115 wickets at 33.18

In victories: 6 matches, averaging 56.66 with the bat, 27 wickets at 22.62

After the Fleming/Bond/Cairns era, he has held the team together...

He has no support at the other end, so he's building the pressure, and taking the wickets... AND scoring the runs...
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Re: Daniel Vettori

Postby Bulls forever » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:17 pm

Grahaml wrote:
Bulls forever wrote:
Grahaml wrote:I can come up with a bunch of reasons why things are easier for Vettori than Hauritz too. Always gets a chance to bat how he likes, no smashing the ball around to set a target and sacrificing wickets before a declaration; Doesn't have to worry about his spot; Being the best and most dangerous bowler NZ have most of the time the batsmen don't look to attack him so much; Always gets to bowl to the tail and when the deck is good to bowl on (Aussie quicks tend to get the lion's share of the best times to bowl); Plays a lot more tests against the likes of Bangladesh.

All in all, though, I think the average speaks volumes. Vettori is widely respected mostly because the rest of the NZ side is so poor. Not sure we'd be talking about Vettori's batting like we do if he always had blokes ahead of him averaging 50.


G - Vettori gets selected, Horrie doesn't - STOP THERE.

Not sure I agree with your thread, is always batting under pressure because NZ top order is crap, has no quality bowler at the other end to pressure batsman, I could go on, I think you could argue till the sun comes up. IMO he is definately a better cricketer than Horrie, but I think Horrie is the best we have the moment and very unlucky.

I think a lot of posters are too young to remember a bloke called Glen Turner - NZ legendary cricketer, who made squillions of runs in country cricket, but wouldn't play Tests for quite some time. Hence I rate young Danny No. 4 in NZ cricket 1. Sir Richard 2. Glen Turner 3. Martin Crowe 4. Danny boy.


Ah, so anyone who gets picked for NZ must be better than someone who doesn't get picked for Australia?

The point of my post was that trying to say who has it harder or easier in an actual match is so wishy washy that you can make the same thing either a benefit or a drawback. In the end, the records speak volumes.


Bit hard to compare Test averages otherwise, don't you think. Only 1 way to compare them and be specific, play in same team and rotate what they do, won't happen, so we express our opinion.
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Re: Daniel Vettori

Postby Grahaml » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:04 am

Vettori has stepped down as test captain, and will step down from ODI captaincy after the world cup.

Not sure if it's the best thing for NZ cricket or not. I'd be hard pressed to think of a good cantidate for captain. McCullum perhaps? I'm not really a fan of wicketkeepers captaining, so perhaps if he did he might just stop keeping and just bat. But that would also weaken their batting, dropping a batsman for a keeper.
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Re: Daniel Vettori

Postby CoverKing » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:09 am

Well McCullum got sacked last year as VC, and is now not keeping due to opening the batting. Ross Taylor is VC so I suspect he will get it, fields at first slip and doesn't bowl, so could be a bit easier for him. Hopefully it see's Taylor knuckle down a bit more with the bat and get those rash shots out of his game .. He could be one of the best bats in the game if he has a bit more patience
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Re: Daniel Vettori

Postby Jim05 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:07 am

Vettori had 6 wins in 3 years and 4 of those against bangladesh.
He has no intentions of retiring just trying to ease workload.
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Re: Daniel Vettori

Postby Media Park » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:12 am

He's still the best guy for the job, it's just wearing him down...
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Re: Daniel Vettori

Postby Grahaml » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:54 pm

CoverKing wrote:Well McCullum got sacked last year as VC, and is now not keeping due to opening the batting. Ross Taylor is VC so I suspect he will get it, fields at first slip and doesn't bowl, so could be a bit easier for him. Hopefully it see's Taylor knuckle down a bit more with the bat and get those rash shots out of his game .. He could be one of the best bats in the game if he has a bit more patience


Ross Taylor would be the perfect type to captain. Like you said, never bowls, fields at slip and should be a lock in the batting lineup. But I'm not sure he's the captaining type. He comes across a bit like he doesn't understand the game as well as he needs to. Hard to tell from afar (and I've not taken a huge interest in NZ cricket) so hopefully those close see him as a good option.
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Re: Daniel Vettori

Postby smithy » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:09 pm

I've read a few stories of ex test cricketers, particularly Australian ones, having a big dislike of Glen Turner because he wouldn't play test cricket.
Does anyone know the reasons behind this ?
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Re: Daniel Vettori

Postby heater31 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:45 pm

smithy wrote:I've read a few stories of ex test cricketers, particularly Australian ones, having a big dislike of Glen Turner because he wouldn't play test cricket.
Does anyone know the reasons behind this ?


Glen Turner

going by his bio on Cricinfo, Turner was rather frustrated at the administration of NZ cricket. It seems that he spent large amounts of time on the sidelines as he only played 41 Tests from 1969 - 83 still managed to average 40
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Re: Daniel Vettori

Postby Media Park » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:48 pm

heater31 wrote:
smithy wrote:I've read a few stories of ex test cricketers, particularly Australian ones, having a big dislike of Glen Turner because he wouldn't play test cricket.
Does anyone know the reasons behind this ?


Glen Turner

going by his bio on Cricinfo, Turner was rather frustrated at the administration of NZ cricket. It seems that he spent large amounts of time on the sidelines as he only played 41 Tests from 1969 - 83 still managed to average 40


34346 runs, 103 FC centuries, 455 matches, average less than fifty
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Re: Daniel Vettori

Postby Bulls forever » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:03 pm

Media Park wrote:
heater31 wrote:
smithy wrote:I've read a few stories of ex test cricketers, particularly Australian ones, having a big dislike of Glen Turner because he wouldn't play test cricket.
Does anyone know the reasons behind this ?


Glen Turner

going by his bio on Cricinfo, Turner was rather frustrated at the administration of NZ cricket. It seems that he spent large amounts of time on the sidelines as he only played 41 Tests from 1969 - 83 still managed to average 40


34346 runs, 103 FC centuries, 455 matches, average less than fifty


Brod or Smithy could clear this up with their research, but NZ didn't have full test status when I was a pup, not sure the year when they got that, but clearly remember that we used to send a 2nd 11 over there to play them. The Aussies were very critical of Glen Turner for failing to play Test Cricket if I remember correctly, thought was he was dodging DK and Thommo.
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Re: Daniel Vettori

Postby Media Park » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:06 pm

cough- Geoffrey Boycott- cough
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Re: Daniel Vettori

Postby Bulls forever » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:07 pm

Media Park wrote:cough- Geoffrey Boycott- cough


MP, just a nob I think, we do it my way or not at all. His commentary is a bit like that as well.
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Re: Daniel Vettori

Postby smithy » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:54 pm

Bulls forever wrote:
Media Park wrote:
heater31 wrote:
smithy wrote:I've read a few stories of ex test cricketers, particularly Australian ones, having a big dislike of Glen Turner because he wouldn't play test cricket.
Does anyone know the reasons behind this ?


Glen Turner

going by his bio on Cricinfo, Turner was rather frustrated at the administration of NZ cricket. It seems that he spent large amounts of time on the sidelines as he only played 41 Tests from 1969 - 83 still managed to average 40


34346 runs, 103 FC centuries, 455 matches, average less than fifty


Brod or Smithy could clear this up with their research, but NZ didn't have full test status when I was a pup, not sure the year when they got that, but clearly remember that we used to send a 2nd 11 over there to play them. The Aussies were very critical of Glen Turner for failing to play Test Cricket if I remember correctly, thought was he was dodging DK and Thommo.


The New Zealand cricket team, also known as the Black Caps or BLACKCAPS, played their first Test in 1929–30 against England in Christchurch, New Zealand, becoming the fifth Test nation. It took the team until 1955–56 to win a Test, against the West Indies at Eden Park in Auckland. They played their first ODI in the 1972–73 season against Pakistan in Christchurch.
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Re: Daniel Vettori

Postby smithy » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:59 pm

New Zealand also played in the Sheffield Shield between 1969 - 1975 and the Australian Gillette Cup competition in 1974/75 which they won.
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