Salary Cap Investigations

[BoundaryRider84]

With only knowing what I've read out of the press it would seem a bit excessive if the SANFL were using Willaston as the baseline (albeit I thought what Willaston got was soft, this would seem to be about right)

The whack here might be more harsh as they are the 2nd club caught out. Also wasn't these payments made by a committee that was independent of the club's board of management? Severe lack of governance on the club's behalf.

Willaston got off very lightly, SANFL is a bloody joke!

[Footy Chick]

So the SANFL punish lightly, their a joke, if they punish harshly, their a joke.

Wow, damned if they do and damned if they don't.

[jo172]

So the SANFL punish lightly, their a joke, if they punish harshly, their a joke.

Wow, damned if they do and damned if they don't.

If you're going to be setting penalties it's pretty well settled natural justice principle that you should strive for consistency between them. Without knowing any of the minutia other than the press release we obviously can't say anything for certain, but from 30,000 feet they seem disproportionate.

I'm in favour of the harsh punishment, just seems a bit unfair on the basis the last mob got

[Footy Chick]

So the SANFL punish lightly, their a joke, if they punish harshly, their a joke.

Wow, damned if they do and damned if they don't.

If you're going to be setting penalties it's pretty well settled natural justice principle that you should strive for consistency between them. Without knowing any of the minutia other than the press release we obviously can't say anything for certain, but from 30,000 feet they seem disproportionate.

I'm in favour of the harsh punishment, just seems a bit unfair on the basis the last mob got

Lets comprare it to Saslibury West 2005 and 2017

When 6 blokes went on a rampage hitting at least 8 different blokes, they remained in a lower grade, got a $2k fine, most of them only got 6 weeks (bar the creeks) and they started the next year on -4 points. In hindsight, and because there was no precedent, it was deemed a farily harsh punishment.

15 years later, one guy hits 3 people and the club is expelled.

It's a case of "if we knew then, what we know now"

[jo172]

So the SANFL punish lightly, their a joke, if they punish harshly, their a joke.

Wow, damned if they do and damned if they don't.

If you're going to be setting penalties it's pretty well settled natural justice principle that you should strive for consistency between them. Without knowing any of the minutia other than the press release we obviously can't say anything for certain, but from 30,000 feet they seem disproportionate.

I'm in favour of the harsh punishment, just seems a bit unfair on the basis the last mob got

Lets comprare it to Saslibury West 2005 and 2017

When 6 blokes went on a rampage hitting at least 8 different blokes, they remained in a lower grade, got a $2k fine, most of them only got 6 weeks (bar the creeks) and they started the next year on -4 points. In hindsight, and because there was no precedent, it was deemed a farily harsh punishment.

15 years later, one guy hits 3 people and the club is expelled.

It's a case of "if we knew then, what we know now"

You're overlooking that Salisbury West got such an extensive punishment in 2018 mostly because of what had transpired in previous years. Same reason repeat offenders get theoretically harsher penalties for each offence.

There's no real basis for visiting Willaston's sins on Kybolite* given the relevant rules haven't changed.

If the rules had changed to the extent that our current penalties aren't an adequate deterrent, for sure, go your hardest. But if the rules are the same that reasoning is tremendously unfair.

*in this hypothetical where the circumstances are exactly the same which i have nfi.

[Dutchy]

I dare say they are trying to send a strong message to the KNFL which has a long history of imported players propping up small country towns.

[Trader]

It's the SANFL trying to seem tough after they were so weak following last year's prelim final.

How can you fine a professional club $10,000 and then a country club $30k.

[daysofourlives]

It's the SANFL trying to seem tough after they were so weak following last year's prelim final.

How can you fine a professional club $10,000 and then a country club $30k.

Dare i say the country clubs can afford a 30k hit, not to sure about the SANFL clubs, somebody has to prop up the SANFL, may as well be rich country clubs. Isnt this what the points and salary cap system is all about

[tigerpie]

All this posturing by the sanfl is never going to stop the old brown paper bag behind the change rooms payment.
I can't believe clubs are dumb enough to get caught!

[Officejet]

I heard a team in the BLGFA got caught last year from a player, anyone know how Kybybolite got found out ?

[Bombers4EVA]

All this posturing by the sanfl is never going to stop the old brown paper bag behind the change rooms payment.
I can't believe clubs are dumb enough to get caught!

Big egos and bloke gloating to their mates of how much they get in those brown paper bags is why they get caught.

[Wasim1]

This will never be stopped because there are too many loopholes in it for payment of big money to greedy players..

Heard of one club paying the players wife through a sponsors business. and another of $$$$'s being put into an account at a service station.

I think you can trust that whilst people are prepared to pay it, the SANFL can never stop it.

BTW, have a look at the club hoppers who move from one club to another on a regular basis, the coin dries up up so they move to the next best offer.

I could name many but you don't have to be Einstein either!

[jo172]

I agree that it's naive to think that it will ever be completely effective, but it's also naive to think that it doesn't act as a deterrent to at least mitigate what it was set up to address.

[jo172]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/localfooty/wrfl-deer-park-hit-with-eight-charges-for-breaching-salary-cap/news-story/a0274aad6ed33299adb1909122843417

One of Victoria’s powerhouse suburban clubs could be banned from featuring in finals this season after an investigation found it breached the salary cap in the 2018 season.

Deer Park, which has claimed the past six premierships in the Western Region Football League, is set to answer eight charges at a hearing on Tuesday following an 10-month investigation.

Three AFL Victoria integrity officers have been reviewing the club’s books since October and concluded the Lions’ player payments totalled $225,200 last year — $10,200 above the salary cap.

They ruled that 50 per cent of coach Marc Bullen’s salary should be included in the total player payments, which tipped Deer Park over the $215,000 cap.

According to the investigation, the former Essendon player made six appearances for the club’s reserves team in 2018.

It is understood Bullen, who is a non-playing coach, was helping an undermanned twos team.

Deer Park is planning to strenuously defend the charges and has not ruled out legal action if it is found guilty.

It is understood it has also been left frustrated by the drawn-out investigation.

A three-person player payments disciplinary committee, which will include a lawyer, will be established to hear the charges.

Fifteen people, comprising 11 current and former players plus officials from rival clubs, were interviewed as part of the investigation.

It is believed Bullen was not one of those interviewed.

Outside of Bullen’s charge, it is understood most of the charges relate to administrative errors.

The salary cap was introduced in competitions across the state in 2017, with education the focus of the first year.

Leagues can apply a range of penalties to clubs found to be over the salary cap, from the stripping of premierships in extreme cases to bans from finals, fines and suspension of players.

The disciplinary committee can rule a club ineligible to receive premiership points for past and future matches, which could leave Deer Park facing the prospect of watching from the sidelines in September if a guilty verdict is handed down.

The Lions sit third on the ladder with an 11-5 record, one game clear of sixth-ranked St Albans with two rounds remaining in the home-and-away season.

Deer Park is chasing a slice of history this year, with VAFA outfit Old Xaverians (1995-2000) the only other club in metropolitan Melbourne to win six flags in a row in a top-flight competition.

The Lions won the 2013 decider by a solitary point, and the 2017 grand final by three points.

Their other triumphs in the season’s showpiece fixture have come by 77, 136, 114 and 48 points, underlining the gulf between the best side in Division 1 and the rest.

At least five WRFL clubs have been subject to investigations from AFL Victoria’s integrity team in recent months.

“We certainly have continued to adopt an aggressive approach in regards to player points and to that end have the lowest cap in metro footy to I guess further drive and incentivise junior development,” League chief executive Matthew Duck said last year.

“We’ve coupled that with arguably the most comprehensive auditing process ever conducted by the AFL Victoria integrity team.

“That’s currently ongoing throughout a number of clubs — and that’s across all three divisions.”

AFL Victoria has more than 20 integrity officers and there will be up to 50 audits this year.

In March 2018, Torquay was slapped with $20,000 in fines and a raft of sanctions for going $3040 over the Bellarine league’s $100,000 salary cap the previous year.

MPNFL club Hastings self-reported it was almost $50,000 over the competition’s $150,000 payments ceiling in February last year.

The Blues were fined $45,000, with $35,000 suspended for two years pending any further breaches.

Essendon District league club Aberfeldie was found to be $9595 over the cap in 2017 and was also hit with a $10,000 penalty.

[Footy Chick]

Based on that alone, you'd think that the Horsham FC in the Wimmera League would also be under similar investigation after winning 10 in a row

[LaughingKookaburra]

There would be more than just the 1 club in that league who would be destroying the Salary Cap. 90% of the leagues in Vic would have offenders in them both metro and country. Blokes don’t travel 3-400 kms a week and bypass 2-3 leagues on the way for “just” $4-500 per week. I know of clubs in Vic country offering multiple people $2000+ per week. The coin that goes around across the border is unreal but you’d be nieve to think it doesn’t still happen in SA too - Maybe the amounts not as common, but it still goes on.

[Bullrider]

There would be more than just the 1 club in that league who would be destroying the Salary Cap. 90% of the leagues in Vic would have offenders in them both metro and country. Blokes don’t travel 3-400 kms a week and bypass 2-3 leagues on the way for “just” $4-500 per week. I know of clubs in Vic country offering multiple people $2000+ per week. The coin that goes around across the border is unreal but you’d be nieve to think it doesn’t still happen in SA too - Maybe the amounts not as common, but it still goes on.

One way to stop this would be to have a period of time a player leaving for big bucks must sit out upon returning to the AdFL/SANFL.
If X player goes to Country/Interstate chasing big bucks after playing AdFL or SANFL they could have points added (+1 point per year away) if they return and/or they are not eligible to play in the AdFL/SANFL for 12 months after they finish up playing at Country/Interstate Club.

I dont begrudge players chasing top dollars, I do believe the points and salary cap system allows this to be exploited without consequence.

[jo172]

There would be more than just the 1 club in that league who would be destroying the Salary Cap. 90% of the leagues in Vic would have offenders in them both metro and country. Blokes don’t travel 3-400 kms a week and bypass 2-3 leagues on the way for “just” $4-500 per week. I know of clubs in Vic country offering multiple people $2000+ per week. The coin that goes around across the border is unreal but you’d be nieve to think it doesn’t still happen in SA too - Maybe the amounts not as common, but it still goes on.

What blows my mind is the resources available to the Clubs in what's essentially a metro Melbourne League.

Wouldn't be a metropolitan club in Adelaide that could get near that kind of salary cap.

[The Big Shrek]

Pretty rough to include the coach’s salary in the cap just because he’s helping out the B grade. Even if a breach is technically made out I would have thought that’s right at the lowest end of seriousness.

[Jimmy_041]

Pretty rough to include the coach’s salary in the cap just because he’s helping out the B grade. Even if a breach is technically made out I would have thought that’s right at the lowest end of seriousness.

I was about to say the same thing. That disturbs me more than the $225k salary cap!