SAAFL division 6 2014

[morell]

But the above wouldn't be a reason that some clubs are struggling, would just be a reason why other clubs are thriving?

Under your example all four would not be playing football at all without cash.

Exachery jo knew you were a clever one.

If one club has a football budget, and can pay old mates Billy, Carl, Darren and Frank, what impact do you think that would have on the morale of a club which does not have the facility to do likewise?

Do you think that would make people more or less inclined to want to play for free?

Do you think that would make you more or less inclined to get off the couch on a cold Thursday night?

Do you think that would make you more or less induced to give up that day shift at double rate?

[morell]

Case studies from the Mitchell Park FC?

Correct, and others.

[WOS Dragons]

Some clubs pay people and its sustainable, some clubs don't and its sustainable. some clubs pay people and it isn't sustainable. some clubs don't pay and it isn't sustainable.

At the end of the day its up to committee of the club to work out how best to run their club. Each club in the league faces its own unique challenges and deciding whether or not to pay players is only one.

[X Runna]

Get rid of match payments all together. Maybe the government may have to bring in a Amatuer League Football Payment Tax for players getting paid to play "Social" football. That's what the Amatuer League isn't it??

Amateur football died in the late 70's & 80's with the then SAFA competition. Then in the mid 90's the SAAFL endorsed players being paid by having the two divisions, P1 & A1 from memory.

There are some clubs out there who refuse to pay players, and that is their choice, BUT, in this day & age, those clubs will not progress unless they have outstanding numbers to choose from, ie prestige Old Scholars and boom suburbs such as Golden Grove. It is simple economics, supply & demand. If there is a strong supply, there is no demand to go seeking. If there is no ready supply, for clubs to progress there is a demand for good players & if a club IS in that situation, dollars will become involved. Whilst I admire their morals in a way, in another way I think it's selfish. The people who are making these decisions are making moralistic calls on what they see fit at the current time and possibly not considering what their decisions will reflect in the future, prime example being Kilburn. They have stated money is not the issue, but to have gone from heaven to hell in the space of 2 years, reeks of some bad decisions being made. The way it it sounding, Kilburn are going to be struggling to be in existence next season.

There are other issues too, ie the nature of the local residents. Kilburn being the example again - they really are up against it with such a multicultural populace, surrounded by an industrial area - there are not many locals to draw from.

As has been mentioned, the lifestyle of today's kids has changed. In olden times when we played for the passion, kids couldn't wait to get home from school, get changed into their favourite teams gear, hop on their bikes and go down the local park to kick a ball around till dinner time, do some homework, maybe watch an hour of TV before bed at a reasonable hour. It was a highlight of our life when we got a new footy or new boots. As we grew older it was all about cars, girls, beer and again........footy.

There are still a lot of real good kids out there who play outstanding football. What I saw of NEMJFA under 16's last year and a bit of under 18's this season, the standard is way better than what it was in my day. Sadly though, they are the minority.

Now most get home from school, raid the fridge, sit in front of a TV or computer screen, smoke, nip out behind the shed for the bong they think you don't know about, get pissed on a Friday night (or more often) with their other deadshit mates and think they have achieved something when they finish "Grand Turismo 5". As far as being in bed before midnight......good luck.

[zedman]

Get rid of match payments all together. Maybe the government may have to bring in a Amatuer League Football Payment Tax for players getting paid to play "Social" football. That's what the Amatuer League isn't it??

Amateur football died in the late 70's & 80's with the then SAFA competition. Then in the mid 90's the SAAFL endorsed players being paid by having the two divisions, P1 & A1 from memory.

There are some clubs out there who refuse to pay players, and that is their choice, BUT, in this day & age, those clubs will not progress unless they have outstanding numbers to choose from, ie prestige Old Scholars and boom suburbs such as Golden Grove. It is simple economics, supply & demand. If there is a strong supply, there is no demand to go seeking. If there is no ready supply, for clubs to progress there is a demand for good players & if a club IS in that situation, dollars will become involved. Whilst I admire their morals in a way, in another way I think it's selfish. The people who are making these decisions are making moralistic calls on what they see fit at the current time and possibly not considering what their decisions will reflect in the future, prime example being Kilburn. They have stated money is not the issue, but to have gone from heaven to hell in the space of 2 years, reeks of some bad decisions being made. The way it it sounding, Kilburn are going to be struggling to be in existence next season.

There are other issues too, ie the nature of the local residents. Kilburn being the example again - they really are up against it with such a multicultural populace, surrounded by an industrial area - there are not many locals to draw from.

As has been mentioned, the lifestyle of today's kids has changed. In olden times when we played for the passion, kids couldn't wait to get home from school, get changed into their favourite teams gear, hop on their bikes and go down the local park to kick a ball around till dinner time, do some homework, maybe watch an hour of TV before bed at a reasonable hour. It was a highlight of our life when we got a new footy or new boots. As we grew older it was all about cars, girls, beer and again........footy.

There are still a lot of real good kids out there who play outstanding football. What I saw of NEMJFA under 16's last year and a bit of under 18's this season, the standard is way better than what it was in my day. Sadly though, they are the minority.

Now most get home from school, raid the fridge, sit in front of a TV or computer screen, smoke, nip out behind the shed for the bong they think you don't know about, get pissed on a Friday night (or more often) with their other deadshit mates and think they have achieved something when they finish "Grand Turismo 5". As far as being in bed before midnight......good luck.

[Robb_Stark]

even if the league brought in a another div for non paying clubs some losers would still rort the system

[morell]

Its not sustainable from a holistic perspective. If it was we wouldn’t have a new record scores and unprecedented numbers of clubs struggling.

Sure, some clubs might be able to pay players year in year out and survive into eternity thanks to some generous sponsors and benefactors, but the competition and the sport as we know it can not.

If we continue to pay players at the rate we are, many good, strong traditional clubs will perish.

Some will say “market forces” and all that, to those people I hope those same market forces never come knocking and begin to affect the things they love.

[Q.]

It's in strife because football is lower on the list of priorities for young males these days, not because of a minority getting a bit of coin.

Absolutely agree.

But, the amounts being paid makes some of those young men all of a sudden raise the priority of football in their lives.

That in turn, swings the pendulum even futher in favour paying clubs, which then in turn creates greater disharmony, despite the fact that particular model is unsustainable.

Horseshit.

It's probably because they have greater access to more flexible and individualist pursuits.

How is it horseshit? Its human nature. Paying players would increase a lot of peoples propensity to play football.

I was responding to your reason why players walk away from the game, not motivation for becoming a contracted player.

[Look Good In Leather]

Get rid of match payments all together. Maybe the government may have to bring in a Amatuer League Football Payment Tax for players getting paid to play "Social" football. That's what the Amatuer League isn't it??

Amateur football died in the late 70's & 80's with the then SAFA competition.

Of the clubs that joined SAFA in 1978, only Ferryden Park, Flinders Park & Semaphore Park were Amateur clubs, all the rest joined from Semi-Professional Leagues Glenelg-South (Edwardstown) or Norwood-North (Athelstone, Burnside, Campbelltown-Magill United, Gepps Cross, Hope Valley, Ingle Farm, Modbury, Hectorville, Norwood Union, Pooraka, Tea Tree Gully)

The three clubs from the Amateurs and the ones that joined later (Henley Districts, Payneham, Walkerville) all shifted as they wanted to pay players but there was too much scrutiny in the SAAFL.

The Amateur league tried to retain amateur regulations for a number of years, but threw them out instead in the power grab of the mid-90s. This was to secure the ex SAFA & CDFA clubs in order to stop the SANFL setting up a next-tier competition below the SANFL League as a replacement for SAFA.

[morell]

I was responding to your reason why players walk away from the game, not motivation for becoming a contracted player.

They're intertwined Q!

Players walk away from the game because of a lack of motivation. Caused by a myriad of things. Coin can mitigate that, increasingly this is the tactic clubs are employing to get these players in and staying put.

This creates an unsustainable boom/bust mini economy due to the nature of relegation/promotion.

[morell]

Get rid of match payments all together. Maybe the government may have to bring in a Amatuer League Football Payment Tax for players getting paid to play "Social" football. That's what the Amatuer League isn't it??

Amateur football died in the late 70's & 80's with the then SAFA competition.

Of the clubs that joined SAFA in 1978, only Ferryden Park, Flinders Park & Semaphore Park were Amateur clubs, all the rest joined from Semi-Professional Leagues Glenelg-South (Edwardstown) or Norwood-North (Athelstone, Burnside, Campbelltown-Magill United, Gepps Cross, Hope Valley, Ingle Farm, Modbury, Hectorville, Norwood Union, Pooraka, Tea Tree Gully)

The three clubs from the Amateurs and the ones that joined later (Henley Districts, Payneham, Walkerville) all shifted as they wanted to pay players but there was too much scrutiny in the SAAFL.

The Amateur league tried to retain amateur regulations for a number of years, but threw them out instead in the power grab of the mid-90s. This was to secure the ex SAFA & CDFA clubs in order to stop the SANFL setting up a next-tier competition below the SANFL League as a replacement for SAFA.

So its possible, but hard....

[morell]

morrell thinks his footy club must remain as a st vincent depauls clothing outlet where little grannies volunteer 5 hours a week for the loveliness of the community, revenue isnt important only the sheer harmony and pride that a minority group of minimal talent pledge their time to the decencies of those who join them

Yeah I kind of do.

for as long as he is this type of person everyone else around him must also be too

Ah absolutely not true! I am all for Divvy 1 and 2 clubs paying fortunes if they want. If you want to compete at that level, then, yep, get some big name sponsors and a massive junior program.

But as Leather pointed out, there is a hole in the market for amatuer level football. Where you can play with your mates and not have to come up against paid players every second week.

Kind of how you were crying like a struck chid when your beloved Henley C Grade got rolled by Ingle Farms paid mercenaries last year.

Hypocritical much?

and whilst this person remains one of mitchell parks most outspoken personalities the club has no hope in hell of evolving into a competitive sporting entity amoungst its fellow industry peers

someone needs to go into that club & say shut da fork up we are paying players

Probably why I keep getting asked and pushed into a senior committee role right? In reality you wouldn't have the faintest clue what its like trying to run a club which does not pay in a semi professional competition, let alone what it is specifically like behind closed doors at the MPFC.

Youre also massively, massively over inflating the weight of a few posts on SA Footy. The club is much bigger than me and will do what it thinks is best.

In fact I would be surprised if next year there werent paid players in our side and it will be a crying shame.

[Mr Beefy]

I see Fitzroy are building a nice squad, with Chris McLean and Nathan Rayner playing the last couple, a clearance in for Inness Chatham too plus others recently cleared. Put an end to Mawson's finals aspirations on Satdy.

[Yank Man]

Edwardstown, Athelstone, Salisbury Nth, Pooraka, Flinders Pk and PNU all came from SAFA with footy budgets less than some of the so called non paying clubs in SAAFL. That was 20 years ago. Not much has changed in that time and $$$$$ still dominate the discussion, go figure.

[Bombers4EVA]

The federal government doesn't give two shits about amateur football payments and would never devote the man hours required to police it. They just cut hundreds of jobs from the ATO ffs.

Hey Q i understand that. I was just making a smart comment on the new taxes the Government want to apply. So I thought why don't t they incorporate a "Player Payment Tax" as a funny joke. Good idea but will never work. Especially if the clubs have lots of tables to pay things under. He he he.

[jake the snake]

Good afternoon Morell, Didn't you state in an earlier thread that Mitchell park had a football budget of approx $30 000 last season?

[morell]

Good afternoon Morell, Didn't you state in an earlier thread that Mitchell park had a football budget of approx $30 000 last season?

Hello Jake. Yeah I think it's about that. I meant that's our total operating budget.

Not a cent of which gets to the players in the form of match day payments. That's to pay our calls, strapping, coaches, footballs, water bills, power bills, phone bills, functions, Yank Mans clipboards etc etc etc

How that is structured within the broader Sporting Club is where we can begin to make improvements.

[Arch44]

I see Fitzroy are building a nice squad, with Chris McLean and Nathan Rayner playing the last couple, a clearance in for Inness Chatham too plus others recently cleared. Put an end to Mawson's finals aspirations on Satdy.

I have been thinking the same Mr B. Saw them train a bit in the preseason and watched them against Blackfriars and thought they are bit better than their early form. Will definitely be around the mark.

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I see Fitzroy are building a nice squad, with Chris McLean and Nathan Rayner playing the last couple, a clearance in for Inness Chatham too plus others recently cleared. Put an end to Mawson's finals aspirations on Satdy.

I have been thinking the same Mr B. Saw them train a bit in the preseason and watched them against Blackfriars and thought they are bit better than their early form. Will definitely be around the mark.

Chatham play for West Croyden last year?

[morell]

Out of curiosity, whom on here owns their own bar, as in, when you buy a beer, where and to whom does that money go, and along a similar vein, who staffs the bar, volunteers or paid workers?