SA Footy

Dumb Question...???

How are the points done? Is it simply register the player and then type the number of points in you believe the player is worth based on the criteria outlined?

If that's the case is there a better way to do it......

Giving SN the benefit of the doubt in that it wasn't deliberate you have to feel for any volunteer admin who makes a silly mistake and costs his club with such heavy penalties. Normally those volunteers are your most loyal passionate club people who would never want to hurt the club.

You assess for yourself based on your knowledge of the player's history.

Prior to the season (or for that matter in-season) you can ask the league to confirm that your assessment is accurate.

If you know you'll be on the cusp of all the points doing the latter is generally considered prudent.

Bit like filling out your tax return, up to you to be honest, but if you **** it up the audit hurts.

jo172 wrote:You assess for yourself based on your knowledge of the player's history.

Prior to the season (or for that matter in-season) you can ask the league to confirm that your assessment is accurate.

If you know you'll be on the cusp of all the points doing the latter is generally considered prudent.

Bit like filling out your tax return, up to you to be honest, but if you **** it up the audit hurts.

I actually thought the audit was mandatory, then when I found out it wasn't, I must say it shocked me to think clubs don't send it in anyway.

Better the league f**k it up, than the club.

If you're playing with <8 who cares, but the second you're above 10 you only need a few potentially innocent errors to shoot yourself in the foot.

Like you said, if there's an error you're much better off having an email from the League/SANFL signing off that you've done it correctly.

APPS is overkill if you’ve already got a salary cap(and clubs abide by it) just cap the amount of transfers from one club to another. If your club is good enough to attracts players, while sticking to financial rules then let’s not stop that, in fact we should be encouraging it

I guess in 20 years time when all the current juniors have their entire registration history on line there could be an automated system in which the AI is intelligent enough to know how many points you are worth eg where you played your junior footy, when you played your last A Grade game etc.

scottroo wrote:APPS is overkill if you’ve already got a salary cap(and clubs abide by it) just cap the amount of transfers from one club to another. If your club is good enough to attracts players, while sticking to financial rules then let’s not stop that, in fact we should be encouraging it

You could argue for equalization it would be better to keep the points but have no salary cap.

With the reverse argument of that if each team has 15 points than they can possibly recruit the same amount of players...if you have positioned yourself well enough financially to attract higher quality players with more money for your 15 points than good luck to you.

Especially given the points are much easier to police than salary cap ever will be.

The burden on football directors, with TPPS and APPS is too great, one mistake and the season/multiple seasons are ruined.

If playHQ was any good it could spit out how many points you are when you register which would be displayed on team sheets to stop this sort of accident happening.

scottroo wrote:The burden on football directors, with TPPS and APPS is too great, one mistake and the season/multiple seasons are ruined.

Some of us dont need to concern ourselves too much with salary cap...

PlayHQ or any other future system for the PlayHQ haters will unlikely ever be able to automatically determine APPS. The APPS rules are very simple if you recruit a regular A grader from another club in AdFL or elsewhere in SA but starts getting quite tricky when you consider some of the other points scenarios. eg. Whether a lad who is Under 21 has played more than 20 games at SANFL U18/Reserves level in last 2 years has a different points outcome than if they didn't; player who has played mostly B grade at another club but still played at least 5 A grade games in last 2 years will attract 1 point if they are changing leagues but 0 points if switching club in same league; and the list goes on with some of the technical aspects. But as others have said, if you are flying close to the upper limit, it is dangerous not to check with the league or SANFL Community.

The frustrating thing with AFL & SANFL banging on about volunteer fatigue and thinking it's about clubs struggling with the necessary supply of volunteers to run canteen, BBQ, boundary & goal etc. etc. which are the highly visible volunteer roles yet they are completely overlooking the invisible roles where volunteers are burning the midnight candle with Salary Cap contracts and spreadsheets, Player Points calculations and enquiries, Police Checks etc etc. These are all the things that have been thrust upon us by the same people that are expressing concern about volunteerism at clubs.

Down the Hill wrote:PlayHQ or any other future system for the PlayHQ haters will unlikely ever be able to automatically determine APPS. The APPS rules are very simple if you recruit a regular A grader from another club in AdFL or elsewhere in SA but starts getting quite tricky when you consider some of the other points scenarios. eg. Whether a lad who is Under 21 has played more than 20 games at SANFL U18/Reserves level in last 2 years has a different points outcome than if they didn't; player who has played mostly B grade at another club but still played at least 5 A grade games in last 2 years will attract 1 point if they are changing leagues but 0 points if switching club in same league; and the list goes on with some of the technical aspects. But as others have said, if you are flying close to the upper limit, it is dangerous not to check with the league or SANFL Community.

The frustrating thing with AFL & SANFL banging on about volunteer fatigue and thinking it's about clubs struggling with the necessary supply of volunteers to run canteen, BBQ, boundary & goal etc. etc. which are the highly visible volunteer roles yet they are completely overlooking the invisible roles where volunteers are burning the midnight candle with Salary Cap contracts and spreadsheets, Player Points calculations and enquiries, Police Checks etc etc. These are all the things that have been thrust upon us by the same people that are expressing concern about volunteerism at clubs.

There would be plenty of different systems that can filter data like that very easily issue being not all players careers are online at present. Just be whether the cost for such as system is justified, wouldn't come cheap.

At its absolute simplest a system which ask the relevant questions......eg has the player played xxxxxx yes or no. Then next question, then next question and based on the responses to the X amount of questions it tells you how many points the player is worth. That way no questions are missed in the thought process for someone working out the points.

Agree 100% with your second paragraph.

whufc wrote:

scottroo wrote:APPS is overkill if you’ve already got a salary cap(and clubs abide by it) just cap the amount of transfers from one club to another. If your club is good enough to attracts players, while sticking to financial rules then let’s not stop that, in fact we should be encouraging it

You could argue for equalization it would be better to keep the points but have no salary cap.

With the reverse argument of that if each team has 15 points than they can possibly recruit the same amount of players...if you have positioned yourself well enough financially to attract higher quality players with more money for your 15 points than good luck to you.

Especially given the points are much easier to police than salary cap ever will be.

Points system great in country footy. If you live in the town you’re a 0, if you’re a recruit your points etc. Not sure it holds the same merit in suburban footy with no zones etc to recruit 0 pointers from. Then you have footy factory old scholar clubs that can bring in 15 players a year but because the spend 1 term going to school there they are a 0 pointer. It’s definitely not even playing field in the city

Yungmuney wrote:

whufc wrote:

scottroo wrote:APPS is overkill if you’ve already got a salary cap(and clubs abide by it) just cap the amount of transfers from one club to another. If your club is good enough to attracts players, while sticking to financial rules then let’s not stop that, in fact we should be encouraging it

You could argue for equalization it would be better to keep the points but have no salary cap.

With the reverse argument of that if each team has 15 points than they can possibly recruit the same amount of players...if you have positioned yourself well enough financially to attract higher quality players with more money for your 15 points than good luck to you.

Especially given the points are much easier to police than salary cap ever will be.

Points system great in country footy. If you live in the town you’re a 0, if you’re a recruit your points etc. Not sure it holds the same merit in suburban footy with no zones etc to recruit 0 pointers from. Then you have footy factory old scholar clubs that can bring in 15 players a year but because the spend 1 term going to school there they are a 0 pointer. It’s definitely not even playing field in the city

No wonder half the country leagues are hiding their points values....

Yungmuney wrote:

whufc wrote:

scottroo wrote:APPS is overkill if you’ve already got a salary cap(and clubs abide by it) just cap the amount of transfers from one club to another. If your club is good enough to attracts players, while sticking to financial rules then let’s not stop that, in fact we should be encouraging it

You could argue for equalization it would be better to keep the points but have no salary cap.

With the reverse argument of that if each team has 15 points than they can possibly recruit the same amount of players...if you have positioned yourself well enough financially to attract higher quality players with more money for your 15 points than good luck to you.

Especially given the points are much easier to police than salary cap ever will be.

Points system great in country footy. If you live in the town you’re a 0, if you’re a recruit your points etc. Not sure it holds the same merit in suburban footy with no zones etc to recruit 0 pointers from. Then you have footy factory old scholar clubs that can bring in 15 players a year but because the spend 1 term going to school there they are a 0 pointer. It’s definitely not even playing field in the city

Hopefully as time goes on and players entire registration careers are online that there will be options to tidy up the city issues you have mentioned.

Mr Beefy wrote:

Yungmuney wrote:

whufc wrote:

scottroo wrote:APPS is overkill if you’ve already got a salary cap(and clubs abide by it) just cap the amount of transfers from one club to another. If your club is good enough to attracts players, while sticking to financial rules then let’s not stop that, in fact we should be encouraging it

You could argue for equalization it would be better to keep the points but have no salary cap.

With the reverse argument of that if each team has 15 points than they can possibly recruit the same amount of players...if you have positioned yourself well enough financially to attract higher quality players with more money for your 15 points than good luck to you.

Especially given the points are much easier to police than salary cap ever will be.

Points system great in country footy. If you live in the town you’re a 0, if you’re a recruit your points etc. Not sure it holds the same merit in suburban footy with no zones etc to recruit 0 pointers from. Then you have footy factory old scholar clubs that can bring in 15 players a year but because the spend 1 term going to school there they are a 0 pointer. It’s definitely not even playing field in the city

No wonder half the country leagues are hiding their points values....

NEFL & NAFA don't hide there's.

You wouldnt get away with shit up here. When i first moved up here everyone reminded me of whose house we were renting, who was the actual owner, who previously rented it and what they all did for work.

My great granddad started up a club in the NAFA, someone from the club saw my last name in a NEFL team and they then facebook messaged me asking why the hell i wasn't playing at there club haha. I'm a genuine b country footballer

Nothing is secret around here.

Mr Beefy wrote:

Yungmuney wrote:

whufc wrote:

scottroo wrote:APPS is overkill if you’ve already got a salary cap(and clubs abide by it) just cap the amount of transfers from one club to another. If your club is good enough to attracts players, while sticking to financial rules then let’s not stop that, in fact we should be encouraging it

You could argue for equalization it would be better to keep the points but have no salary cap.

With the reverse argument of that if each team has 15 points than they can possibly recruit the same amount of players...if you have positioned yourself well enough financially to attract higher quality players with more money for your 15 points than good luck to you.

Especially given the points are much easier to police than salary cap ever will be.

Points system great in country footy. If you live in the town you’re a 0, if you’re a recruit your points etc. Not sure it holds the same merit in suburban footy with no zones etc to recruit 0 pointers from. Then you have footy factory old scholar clubs that can bring in 15 players a year but because the spend 1 term going to school there they are a 0 pointer. It’s definitely not even playing field in the city

No wonder half the country leagues are hiding their points values....

It’s also varies on ladder position. If you win the flag, you get say 9, if you finish bottom and don’t win a game you could get an allocation of 17.

Or if you win 6 out of the last 7 flags you get 6 points

Yungmuney wrote:

whufc wrote:

scottroo wrote:APPS is overkill if you’ve already got a salary cap(and clubs abide by it) just cap the amount of transfers from one club to another. If your club is good enough to attracts players, while sticking to financial rules then let’s not stop that, in fact we should be encouraging it

You could argue for equalization it would be better to keep the points but have no salary cap.

With the reverse argument of that if each team has 15 points than they can possibly recruit the same amount of players...if you have positioned yourself well enough financially to attract higher quality players with more money for your 15 points than good luck to you.

Especially given the points are much easier to police than salary cap ever will be.

Points system great in country footy. If you live in the town you’re a 0, if you’re a recruit your points etc. Not sure it holds the same merit in suburban footy with no zones etc to recruit 0 pointers from. Then you have footy factory old scholar clubs that can bring in 15 players a year but because the spend 1 term going to school there they are a 0 pointer. It’s definitely not even playing field in the city

INCORRECT. You're clearly not someone who deals with APPS. We all play to the same rules other than AdFL being 15 points across the board wheras country leagues can adjust points per club as a form of equalisation policy. Where you live has nothing to do with it. 20 junior games at the club or majority of games outside of A grade in the last 2 seasons are the main conditions for being 0 points. The Old Scholar clubs still have to provide evidence that the lad played 20 or more school games in his time at the school.

Yungmuney wrote:

whufc wrote:

scottroo wrote:APPS is overkill if you’ve already got a salary cap(and clubs abide by it) just cap the amount of transfers from one club to another. If your club is good enough to attracts players, while sticking to financial rules then let’s not stop that, in fact we should be encouraging it

You could argue for equalization it would be better to keep the points but have no salary cap.

With the reverse argument of that if each team has 15 points than they can possibly recruit the same amount of players...if you have positioned yourself well enough financially to attract higher quality players with more money for your 15 points than good luck to you.

Especially given the points are much easier to police than salary cap ever will be.

Points system great in country footy. If you live in the town you’re a 0, if you’re a recruit your points etc. Not sure it holds the same merit in suburban footy with no zones etc to recruit 0 pointers from. Then you have footy factory old scholar clubs that can bring in 15 players a year but because the spend 1 term going to school there they are a 0 pointer. It’s definitely not even playing field in the city

Aldinga - don't put Yungmuney in charge of your APPS.