Representative Football

[FootyMad]

Gentlemen can we try to settle this topic atleast for the meantime.
Im more than aware that people like to be proud of there competition and as such never like to take a backward step when discussing it but throughout this forum since the long weekend all we hear about is the excuses rep sides have or how good an association is as they won.

Firstly (let me repeat myself) the SFL is not the best association in South Australia and the SFL is NOT on par with Div 1. SAAFL! Had to add that - sorry but some of those boys are dilerious!

My opinion is that every rep side face the same dilemma, unfortunately the best players all want to rest and unfortunately many of the best players are also over 25 years old. If round robin shields are not going to be brought back into contention then atleast every year each association needs to play a different associaiton to the year before. On top of this, if rep sides are going to feature the best players in that league then association (I hate to say it) will be forced to pay these players for the game - until this is done rep footy will continue to be second rate and the teams will be picked on who rocks up rather than who was invited. It sucks but its the way footy has become - club before association - money before pride.

Your thoughts?

[the wonder elephant]

this is all starting to sound like the state of origin debate to me where has the pride gone out of rep football ..i remember back a few years ago anyone would jump at the chance to play in these games !!! poor form all round i say

[carey]

Gentlemen can we try to settle this topic atleast for the meantime.
Im more than aware that people like to be proud of there competition and as such never like to take a backward step when discussing it but throughout this forum since the long weekend all we hear about is the excuses rep sides have or how good an association is as they won.

Firstly (let me repeat myself) the SFL is not the best association in South Australia and the SFL is NOT on par with Div 1. SAAFL! Had to add that - sorry but some of those boys are dilerious!

My opinion is that every rep side face the same dilemma, unfortunately the best players all want to rest and unfortunately many of the best players are also over 25 years old. If round robin shields are not going to be brought back into contention then atleast every year each association needs to play a different associaiton to the year before. On top of this, if rep sides are going to feature the best players in that league then association (I hate to say it) will be forced to pay these players for the game - until this is done rep footy will continue to be second rate and the teams will be picked on who rocks up rather than who was invited. It sucks but its the way footy has become - club before association - money before pride.

Your thoughts?

i dont think anyone could've said that better

[faxuwill]

apfl suspends players that are not available no matter if he chooses to catch up on sum work or take a break with the family,to play a different association each year for five years would give a true indication of player prowes,to play association footy is a great experience, as goes in footy you are only as good as those around you. the apfl association game format was a debarcal not to mention selection committee.

[Dogwatcher]

You're never going to be able to test each competition truly across the board.

So what if....

The SANFL and its affiliates set up a ranking system of leagues across the state.

Say: 1. GSFL ------> 30. Riverland Independent (all rankings are examples for the sake of this)

The team at 1 (GSFL) plays number 2 (SFL).

The team at 3 (Adelaide Hills) plays 4 (Mid North)

Etc right down to 29 (Mid-Murray) plays 30 (Indy)

The team which loses plays the side below it the next year, while the winner goes up to play the higher ranked side.

That way - there's a one off game. Associations are playing similar ranked opponents. And there's a clear ranking of who's best.

I guess it falls apart if say Western Border are drawn to play Port Lincoln...but something could be worked out....

Plenty of flaws, but if you don't post these things, you don't get debate going.

[Justquietly]

Nice work, DW. Of course there are flaws with it, but there are plenty of flaws now anyway.
Your system has merit but the problem of players not making themselves available wouldn't change, and that seems to be the main stumbling block.
And I have to admit, in a long season I can't really blame some blokes for wanting the weekend off, especially if their league doesn't have a bye.

[Dogwatcher]

Knowing that they're going to play to go up a level might be enough to swing some that might not normally play.

And if they don't play - you don't want them anyway. If they have tov be forced to play, you don't want them anyway.

A lot of leagues would also need to take a close look at who the officials/coaches involved in the sides are - like any side, the wrong person in charge off field will see players less willing to commit.

Not that I blame blokes for wanting a weekend off.
But, having played rep footy, I think no matter how much you don't want to do it at first, you always have a good time, no matter the result. Good fellowship.

[dangermouse]

As I have said on another forum, fining or suspending players for not wanting to play association football is RIDICULOUS and should be put to bed before any other league officials start thinking it is a reasonable idea. You'd just end up with 10-15 bogus sick notes from the family doc or a bunch of blokes that couldn't give a rats piss about the game representing their league (sorry if that sounds like i'm tarnishing everyone with the same brush as there are gun players in every league whom front up for rep duties whenever called). The fact's are, many of the best players in each league are paid imports who are not willing to risk injury (and thus loss of future match payments) to play for a league that they really don't have pride or passion in representing. Hence my opinion is that leagues should focus on making rep footy available to guys that have played in that league for three years or more- this makes the guernsey much more exclusive and ensures that the guys whom are playing are real representatives of that particular league, and not some flash in the pan who is playing for Hills Central this year, SFL next year and Western Border the year after. There is still pride in rep footy but you need to going looking for it and fill a side with those blokes- not blokes who have been blackmailed into playing with threats of fines or suspension. If fines for a no show are reasonable, I hope my boss doesn't dock my pay if I can't make it to the work chrissie do this year!

[THE BARKING SPIDERS]

no chance of playing western border in assoc games, wbfl is affilliated with country victoria

[Dogwatcher]

you've missed the point x-sharky.

[THE BARKING SPIDERS]

you've missed the point x-sharky.

i know ya point DW your using them as an example but thought id just let ya know that sth aust leagues wouldnt be able to play em in case no one knew that

[Panther32]

I think the 3 year rule definitley has merit, with obvious exclusions to those who played SANFL, but are returning to their local club.
Another scenario would be, why don't they play these games at the end of the season, or have a two week break so that these blokes still have a week to recover after the game for their local club?
Unless money or alternative solutions are involved, what happened this year will continue to happen.

[FootyMad]

DM and P32 you both make sensational points - there should be a 2 - 3 year playing period where players cannot be used unless they have been with that league for a minimum amount of time.
X-sharky that is a suprise to me about the Western Border league but thanks for the info.

Agreed fining players isnt the go but coming up with a better concept is! DW your system would work greatly as I can see certain associations busting there gut to get to the highest level of rep footy. From my understanding your system is similar to that of the current SAAFL where rep teasm are either promoted or relegated each year. This would attract sponsors I would think and sorry P32 we'd have to have during the year purely for player availablility and because GF is the biggest ever end of year game for any team, rep repsonisbilities etc may taek away from a leagues big day in Sept.

[silicone skyline]

The ranking system has merit but EP associations play mortlock sheild.
Do they become unranked to keep playing amongst themselves?
The best players are older, they've done their service to football though.
Take matt manfield (Fitzroy, Richmond, Collingwoord, WWT and Glenelg). He's just past 30 years old.
Still a star player.
But he's done it all.
He just wants to settle with his family, play footy when he can and just chill out.
Why should he be suspended for wanting a break?
After giving your life and youth to the game you're punished for wanting a break?
I love rep football and would have loved him to play, but at the end of the day, i would rather play with 21 other keen blokes than 21 blokes who got enough to force them to play.

[Start]

Being involved as a player and a coach of rep football, I think it offers little value to the leagues or players that committ to it unfortunately. Clubs unless forced are reluclant to release their best players that they big dollars for, incase of injuries etc, and mostr players want the weekend off to freshen up, and the actual match has no relevance on the seasons ouctcome at all.

In addition to finding which is the best comp, it is near impossiable due to the sheer number comps and a workable format to play all comps within in one season.

[jingles]

I think all that has posted on this topic has had some great points of view and it's refreshing that we are all on the same page.

I believe that all comps should invite all of the very best players, and make the squads huge, around 50. That way, if your a gun player, and to be a gun player you are of a competitive nature anyway, I bet ya that most of the guys that the selectors want in the side will put their hand up.

I've played alot of rep footy, and even when ya don't want to pull the boots on, or ya could do with the week off, I've never regreted playin' with the other good players in the league.

I also think that the major reason that rep footy has died, is because most of the league officials have lost touch with the supporters and players

I don't reckon that playin' against leagues on the other side of the state would work, thats what Zone footy is there for. I think it means more if your comp plays, and knocks off the comp down the road.

BRING BACK LOVELOCK SHIELD FOOTY!!!!!!

[Micky Conlan]

Geezzzz big Micky's a little hung over today,but the show must go on.Rep footy is where its at i'm so sick and tired of those DIMWITS that are trying to run the leauges speaking for the players,just because 1 or 2 gun players say its to much on the body and they need a rest the DIMWITS think all players think the same,well there SOFT!!!! they should piss off and let the boys play.June longweekend 2 games on sat play final on monday......i think they use to call it the LOVELOCK SHEILD!! I tell ya as soon as Big Micky retires he's going in to that board room and he'll be swinging that axe so look out DIMWITS!!! Micky has to go vomit know....no red ink what chumps.

[Micky Conlan]

Sorry i just read Start's comments, there is a good example of those SOFT players/people invovled go take up fly fishing Start we dont need ya!

[silicone skyline]

Micky, take it from a 19-year-old midfielder who represented both his association at Mortlock Shield and zone in State Country Championships this season just passed.
I love playing rep footy, but it definitely takes a toll on your body.
I developed stress related back problems that affected my adductors, which saw me miss four games of our last eight, and i suffered with severe crippling fatigue despite constant sessions of rehab.
I carried this into our grand final, and after being dominant all year, my side lost.
So the question for me now isn't am i sacrificing pride for money if i don't play, it's asking me if it might just cost me my first ever A grade premiership, i have no doubts that this year it did.

[Grape Ape]

SS, I have no doubt that you are vastly more qualified than Micky to judge the relationship between rep footy and premierships but do you really think that a fit SS would have made all the difference? 19 and already using your frail body as an excuse… Maybe if you’d gone fly fishing on those weekends you’d have your medal…

Anyway, Isn’t it the case that in most leagues the week off is for the purpose of rep footy? ie no rep footy = no week off? And if the league doesn’t schedule a week of for rep footy we’d all be playing anyway? In my experience rep footy is faster and of a higher skill level, more free flowing but generally without the physicality of hard tags and negative match ups that the better players in a local league experience each week. The majority of players return to their local clubs better for the experience and definitely fitter than their lazy mates who ‘needed a week off’. So if you really need a week off you’d take it when you need it.

The point I am trying to make is that the old risk of injury excuse just doesn’t stack up. Why are you more likely to get injured in rep footy? If there is no rep footy then you’d be playing anyway. Is there more honour in pulling a string for your local club? That excuse is for player’s who prefer to a big fish in a small pond and are afraid that rep footy will reveal that they really aren’t that good when forced to play on better opposition. Or they are just to lazy to attend the extra training sessions. Rep footy is the closest thing to finals that guys from lower ranked clubs will experience and a fantastic dress rehearsal for the blokes who will be playing finals. BRING BACK THE LOVELOCK SHEILD!!