SA Footy

Guys you are not listening - There will be an 11 team Central Div next year and an 8 team Country Div. That will appease Echunga and Mt Lofty
In 2016 there will be 2 Divisions - In what format is yet to be seen but clubs will have 12 months to merge or fold. The aim is to make 2 even Divs - how many teams make up that will be decided over the next 18 months but I can tell you there will be 11 teams in central next year.

has been wrote:Guys you are not listening - There will be an 11 team Central Div next year and an 8 team Country Div. That will appease Echunga and Mt Lofty
In 2016 there will be 2 Divisions - In what format is yet to be seen but clubs will have 12 months to merge or fold. The aim is to make 2 even Divs - how many teams make up that will be decided over the next 18 months but I can tell you there will be 11 teams in central next year.

The merger situation is something that needs to be explored thoroughly - particularly as it could provide a better junior comp.

Clubs are traditionally stubborn in this area as no one wants to lose face or identity.

Its either merge or perish for some sides as Callington showed.

Once you are really down you don't have much bargaining power so the sooner you do it the more you gain and retain.

Lots of options for the clubs to explore moving forward - but for now I am hoping either Echunga or Lobey can take it up to Uraidla and make it a challenge.

I reckon if Echunga gets through they will give them a real run for their money.

There are some class footballers in Echunga's side who could really turn it on - but whether the effort to get there has exhausted them is a question only time will tell.

Look Good In Leather wrote:With all due respect, the make-up at the time of the SFL is similar to what the Hills FL is now with Sedan-Cambrai & Milang the only genuine country teams left.

The Hills region is as much Adelaide metro as areas like Aldinga and McLaren Flat were at the time I was referring to (remembering also Kangarilla & Meadows were part of the equation). Hills is effectively a Metro league these days, with a few outlying towns.

It is certainly the most comparable recent example and a lot of lessons can be taken from it.

Thanks for the geography lesson - I'm sure the good folk of Macclesfield, Meadows, Kersbrook, Sedan, Milang, Mt Torrens, Mt Pleasant, Birdwood and Gumeracha will be pleased to know they're now in the metropolitan area.

Point remains the same, the smaller clubs will have no option but to consider a merging, or sign up for the C grade comp.

Elmer J Thudpucker wrote:

Look Good In Leather wrote:With all due respect, the make-up at the time of the SFL is similar to what the Hills FL is now with Sedan-Cambrai & Milang the only genuine country teams left.

The Hills region is as much Adelaide metro as areas like Aldinga and McLaren Flat were at the time I was referring to (remembering also Kangarilla & Meadows were part of the equation). Hills is effectively a Metro league these days, with a few outlying towns.

It is certainly the most comparable recent example and a lot of lessons can be taken from it.

Thanks for the geography lesson - I'm sure the good folk of Macclesfield, Meadows, Kersbrook, Sedan, Milang, Mt Torrens, Mt Pleasant, Birdwood and Gumeracha will be pleased to know they're now in the metropolitan area.

Point remains the same, the smaller clubs will have no option but to consider a merging, or sign up for the C grade comp.

Maccy, Meadows, Mt Torrens & Birdwood are all similar distances from the CBD as Aldinga & Gawler
Kersbrook and Gumeracha are closer
I talked about Sedan & Milang as being genuine country
When was the last time Mount Pleasant was used, isn't Torrens Valley based at Mount Torrens?

Dismiss the points I have made if you really believe SFL was a fully metropolitan league in the late nineties, even one of your "country" teams you mentioned above (Meadows) was playing in that Metropolitan league at that time.

The relevant experience I was trying to get across was:
Up until the mid 90s the SFL Div2 comp was quite competitive. In 1995 Mitchell Park joined Div1 making it 11 teams in Div1 & 8 in Div2 (similar to what is being suggested for next season in hills). 1997 went crazy, Brighton joined Div1 and entered their C & D grade in the Div2 comp (made a 12-9 split). Coming from the Amateurs they had underestimated the strength of Div2 and there were a number of record scores against them. The Div2 was also starting to see a divide with some reasonably strong teams and some very weak teams. A number of very high margins were occurring at that stage.
The decline progressed in 1998 when McLaren Vale and McLaren Flat merged making a 12-8 split. Meadows went the season without a win and left at the end of the season making it a 12-7 split. The second division by this stage was a very unattractive proposition for the lower Div1 clubs with 3 strong teams (Kangarilla, Aldinga, McLaren), 2 half competitive teams (Lonsdale & Mitchell Park) and 2 very weak teams (Cove & Brighton thirds).
In 2000 the Brighton experiment was brought to a halt (after a number of 40 goal losses), being left with only 6 teams and McLaren wanting out, the league pushed two sides down to balance it better making it 10-8, the damage had been done however.
Mitchell Park and McLaren left at the end of the season reducing it to a 6 team competition. This lasted one season until it was determined to be unviable (4 team U/18 comp, 5 team U/16 & U/14 comps). At the end of the 2001 season, the two divisions were combined to form one 16 team competition (based on the AFL at that time). As a result of this the Lonsdale & O'Sullivan Beach teams merged to make it 15 teams.

Of the 6 teams of that final Div2 season, 2 have become strong clubs (Cove & Flagstaff Hill), 1 left (Kangarilla) and the other two have struggled (Aldinga & the combined OSB/Lonsdale team).

The Saturday juniors have been impacted severely as the Div2 comp traditionally failed to match the junior structure of Div1. This season has seen it hit a low with only 10 teams fielded in the U/16 & U/14 competitions and down to only 8 clubs fielding a full set of teams in their own right in all the 5 Saturday grades.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Thank you LGIL - history repeating people?

Can I just say that there will be nothing wrong with a 6, 7 or 8 team Division 2 Comp. and a 11-12 team Premier Division Comp.

2015 Clubs get to build their cases for which comp they prefer.

There are a number of division 2 clubs that openly have no interest in playing in division 1.

Once the clubs are set the promotion/relegation system stops and instead any div 2 club looking to come up must develop and execute a plan to meet the requirements.
The application is given during a current season for entry in at the end of next; the point is the plan is placed with HFL at say April 2015. The HFL then approve the plan on its merits and set in place check points for review of how it is travelling. Once the plan is approved all division one clubs are put on notice that the bottom A'Grade side in division 1 at the end of 2016 is going down.
Again just a thought but in closing aren't there a number of 6-7 club competitions all over the state currently??

Champ wrote:Can I just say that there will be nothing wrong with a 6, 7 or 8 team Division 2 Comp. and a 11-12 team Premier Division Comp.

2015 Clubs get to build their cases for which comp they prefer.

There are a number of division 2 clubs that openly have no interest in playing in division 1.

Once the clubs are set the promotion/relegation system stops and instead any div 2 club looking to come up must develop and execute a plan to meet the requirements.
The application is given during a current season for entry in at the end of next; the point is the plan is placed with HFL at say April 2015. The HFL then approve the plan on its merits and set in place check points for review of how it is travelling. Once the plan is approved all division one clubs are put on notice that the bottom A'Grade side in division 1 at the end of 2016 is going down.
Again just a thought but in closing aren't there a number of 6-7 club competitions all over the state currently??

The key problems happen in the juniors in a 6-7 comp, it only take 1 or 2 teams to not field a team and suddenly one grade has only 4 or 5 teams, when it is following the seniors it means either your juniors are separated from your club for a large chunk of the season or there are a lot of byes. The impact is increased in a smaller competition.

Tips for this weekend:

A Grade - Should be a beauty, if Lobey can get on top in the midfield and take the game on, I reckon they'll secure their spot in the big dance.
A2's - Uraidla on their home deck should account for Onkas again, however the good win against TV last week should give the Dogs some bite
U17's - Tight one, if Jake Adcock can kick a bag for Onkas I give them a real chance (I'm hoping Onkas win).
U15's - Unsure on this one, but I can't really see Barker or Blackwood troubling Hahndorf next week?
U13's - Ridiculous these kids are playing for premiership points. I'd expect Blackwood to get through....

Looks like Hahndorf might clean sweep the Junior Grades next week - their Jnr Committee does an unbelievable job.

Look Good In Leather wrote:

Champ wrote:Can I just say that there will be nothing wrong with a 6, 7 or 8 team Division 2 Comp. and a 11-12 team Premier Division Comp.

2015 Clubs get to build their cases for which comp they prefer.

There are a number of division 2 clubs that openly have no interest in playing in division 1.

Once the clubs are set the promotion/relegation system stops and instead any div 2 club looking to come up must develop and execute a plan to meet the requirements.
The application is given during a current season for entry in at the end of next; the point is the plan is placed with HFL at say April 2015. The HFL then approve the plan on its merits and set in place check points for review of how it is travelling. Once the plan is approved all division one clubs are put on notice that the bottom A'Grade side in division 1 at the end of 2016 is going down.
Again just a thought but in closing aren't there a number of 6-7 club competitions all over the state currently??

The key problems happen in the juniors in a 6-7 comp, it only take 1 or 2 teams to not field a team and suddenly one grade has only 4 or 5 teams, when it is following the seniors it means either your juniors are separated from your club for a large chunk of the season or there are a lot of byes. The impact is increased in a smaller competition.

Propping the competition up with strong clubs with a full compliment does no favors either as there are senior teams going undefeated and as a result of the competition in general they lose juniors.
Wouldn't it be easier to have a smaller second div comp to manage and improve? Maybe in theory.

Champ wrote:

Look Good In Leather wrote:

Champ wrote:Can I just say that there will be nothing wrong with a 6, 7 or 8 team Division 2 Comp. and a 11-12 team Premier Division Comp.

2015 Clubs get to build their cases for which comp they prefer.

There are a number of division 2 clubs that openly have no interest in playing in division 1.

Once the clubs are set the promotion/relegation system stops and instead any div 2 club looking to come up must develop and execute a plan to meet the requirements.
The application is given during a current season for entry in at the end of next; the point is the plan is placed with HFL at say April 2015. The HFL then approve the plan on its merits and set in place check points for review of how it is travelling. Once the plan is approved all division one clubs are put on notice that the bottom A'Grade side in division 1 at the end of 2016 is going down.
Again just a thought but in closing aren't there a number of 6-7 club competitions all over the state currently??

The key problems happen in the juniors in a 6-7 comp, it only take 1 or 2 teams to not field a team and suddenly one grade has only 4 or 5 teams, when it is following the seniors it means either your juniors are separated from your club for a large chunk of the season or there are a lot of byes. The impact is increased in a smaller competition.

Propping the competition up with strong clubs with a full compliment does no favors either as there are senior teams going undefeated and as a result of the competition in general they lose juniors.
Wouldn't it be easier to have a smaller second div comp to manage and improve? Maybe in theory.

Throwing a left field solution out for discussion.
If one of the junior comps are struggling for numbers, normally its the S/C's so will use that as an example. Play a mid week comp Tues/Wed under lights on suitable ovals not necessarily home and away. Put the Country clubs in with also any clubs that could combine to form a team and any Central clubs with excess numbers could give their kids a run but also allow them to play again on the weekends. Plus any juniors tied up in college teams on a sat could then still represent their local team. Also allow the bigger S/C's of the country teams to play again in the senior teams on the weekends, so could help fill out the numbers and not over tax them playing 2 games in one day. It would probably be only a 6 team comp approx but thats fine play 3 rounds and finals thus all over before the normal finals of the Country div. Still keep clubs together on a sat and cut the early starts for travelling as you could start the games (4) only a bit later.
Please discuss.

Champ wrote:Can I just say that there will be nothing wrong with a 6, 7 or 8 team Division 2 Comp.

Having played in a six team comp it sucks majorly. Play the same teams 4 times a year- it gets ultra predictable as to who wins each game after the first 2 cycles.

8 has to be the bare minimum IMO.

has been wrote:Guys you are not listening - There will be an 11 team Central Div next year and an 8 team Country Div. That will appease Echunga and Mt Lofty
In 2016 there will be 2 Divisions - In what format is yet to be seen but clubs will have 12 months to merge or fold. The aim is to make 2 even Divs - how many teams make up that will be decided over the next 18 months but I can tell you there will be 11 teams in central next year.

Don't stress Has Been. People are listening to you, just taking what your saying with a pinch of salt. This is a forum after all and that interweb is a lousy source of 100 % accurate info after all.

I certainly hope what you are suggesting doesn't eventuate.

Look Good In Leather wrote:

backdoor wrote:

supercoach wrote:Come on you guys agree with has been this relegation crap is really boring. He is right there will be 11 teams in central next year so lets stop all this tripe and talk finals footy. Can Echunga beat Lobey now the fine weather is back. Uris surely are 6-7 goals better. than both of those teams. They are so good and well coached

No way will there be an 11 team Central Division next season. That will only further damage the Country Division.

Learn from the SFL. You guys are in a similar situation as we were in the late 90s. DO NOT let Division 2 fail, the focus needs to be on making the second division stronger. We allowed the second division to dwindle away, but that was fine because the Division 1 clubs were ok - it ended up becoming our problem.

I agree totally with what you are saying LGIL. The fix lays within the second division as that is where the problem is.

And all this arguing about whether or not Southern and Hills are the same is mute. They dont have to be for us to take examples of possible outcomes from what happened to them.

Yellow & Black wrote:Should be a beauty on Saturday, looks like fine conditions which will make for a great spectacle. Echunga look to have built a really solid team all over the ground, lightening quick midfield and some big strong targets up forward which might stretch Lobeys defenders.

Legsman you talk about 2 more ins, are you at full strength? (Henke excluded)

Regarding B Grade, I thought TV might have beaten what looked to be a depleted Onkas a week earlier, obviously the home track help the doggies. Anyone at the game or involved who can comment?

Definitely great for the Dee's to have B Fleet, S Edmonds and Rothe all available. Very close to full strength I think. Only out I can think of is Jed Meclure with a season (atleast) ending injury. Hasn't played in over a month. Edmonds's height should be valuable to free up one of Echunga's tall play makers.

Going in keen, My tip is Echunga by 4 goal, as that team is very comfortable playing in finals intensity.

ON this week's game- regardless of the winner we will have a finalist other than Mt Barker, Blackwood or Mt Lofty this weekend for the first time since 2004? We just need someone else to keep Uraidla out next season! Hills Central has had one of the best A Grade seasons in recent years. I hope that if any changes occur to the league next season they are not too dramatic.

Look Good In Leather wrote:

Elmer J Thudpucker wrote:

Look Good In Leather wrote:With all due respect, the make-up at the time of the SFL is similar to what the Hills FL is now with Sedan-Cambrai & Milang the only genuine country teams left.

The Hills region is as much Adelaide metro as areas like Aldinga and McLaren Flat were at the time I was referring to (remembering also Kangarilla & Meadows were part of the equation). Hills is effectively a Metro league these days, with a few outlying towns.

It is certainly the most comparable recent example and a lot of lessons can be taken from it.

Thanks for the geography lesson - I'm sure the good folk of Macclesfield, Meadows, Kersbrook, Sedan, Milang, Mt Torrens, Mt Pleasant, Birdwood and Gumeracha will be pleased to know they're now in the metropolitan area.

Point remains the same, the smaller clubs will have no option but to consider a merging, or sign up for the C grade comp.

Maccy, Meadows, Mt Torrens & Birdwood are all similar distances from the CBD as Aldinga & Gawler
Kersbrook and Gumeracha are closer
I talked about Sedan & Milang as being genuine country
When was the last time Mount Pleasant was used, isn't Torrens Valley based at Mount Torrens?

Dismiss the points I have made if you really believe SFL was a fully metropolitan league in the late nineties, even one of your "country" teams you mentioned above (Meadows) was playing in that Metropolitan league at that time.

The relevant experience I was trying to get across was:
Up until the mid 90s the SFL Div2 comp was quite competitive. In 1995 Mitchell Park joined Div1 making it 11 teams in Div1 & 8 in Div2 (similar to what is being suggested for next season in hills). 1997 went crazy, Brighton joined Div1 and entered their C & D grade in the Div2 comp (made a 12-9 split). Coming from the Amateurs they had underestimated the strength of Div2 and there were a number of record scores against them. The Div2 was also starting to see a divide with some reasonably strong teams and some very weak teams. A number of very high margins were occurring at that stage.
The decline progressed in 1998 when McLaren Vale and McLaren Flat merged making a 12-8 split. Meadows went the season without a win and left at the end of the season making it a 12-7 split. The second division by this stage was a very unattractive proposition for the lower Div1 clubs with 3 strong teams (Kangarilla, Aldinga, McLaren), 2 half competitive teams (Lonsdale & Mitchell Park) and 2 very weak teams (Cove & Brighton thirds).
In 2000 the Brighton experiment was brought to a halt (after a number of 40 goal losses), being left with only 6 teams and McLaren wanting out, the league pushed two sides down to balance it better making it 10-8, the damage had been done however.
Mitchell Park and McLaren left at the end of the season reducing it to a 6 team competition. This lasted one season until it was determined to be unviable (4 team U/18 comp, 5 team U/16 & U/14 comps). At the end of the 2001 season, the two divisions were combined to form one 16 team competition (based on the AFL at that time). As a result of this the Lonsdale & O'Sullivan Beach teams merged to make it 15 teams.

Of the 6 teams of that final Div2 season, 2 have become strong clubs (Cove & Flagstaff Hill), 1 left (Kangarilla) and the other two have struggled (Aldinga & the combined OSB/Lonsdale team).

The Saturday juniors have been impacted severely as the Div2 comp traditionally failed to match the junior structure of Div1. This season has seen it hit a low with only 10 teams fielded in the U/16 & U/14 competitions and down to only 8 clubs fielding a full set of teams in their own right in all the 5 Saturday grades.

First time i've agreed with LGIL.

in the realms of good idea, but will never ever ever ever happen..... Merge Hills and SFL. 3 divs with sedan cambrai to riv independents

Echunga knocked off Lobey by 22 points.

Caught the second half..Tigers led by 9 points at HT, but by early in the last Echunga got out to a 7 goal lead. Lobey made a late run but the Dees steadied and held on.

Great effort from Echunga to make the GF.

Reminds me of the movie major league

I didnt see it myself, but I've heard that there was an article in the budget today that clarified the points situation and Echunga will still face relegation to Country div next year?

Double Demon Grand Final!
Looks set to be the first league in Australia to demote a grand final side
That would be genuinely embarrassing for the HFL.

This 11-team comp stuff would surely only work if the clubs rule in favour and not the league; lets just hope the misery of losing to a better team on the day doesn't decide which way a couple will go.

At any rate pretty bloody amazing stuff!
Looking on sporting pulse Echunga have achieved a grand final place with the inclusion of two recruits, two senior colts, a b'grade from barker and the return of Harland and Liston. And they said it couldn't be done....