SA Footy

Cuba and China are both autocracies.

If Labor wins the Federal election, there will be a very rare alignment of the political planets in that there will be a labor government in place at every state as well as at federal level.

What will this mean (if anything?) for democracy in Australia? Will we have to change our country's name to start with C as well?

From what I have seen of the mainstream (ie commercial) print and television media, there is a lot of support for Rudd. The cynic in me wonders if PBL and News Ltd are pretty keen to capitalise on the possible alignment of the political planets and exert strong influence over things like media ownership laws, anti-siphoning legislation and the like.

On the other hand, will this be the beginning of the end for local governments? If the state and feds line up together they could make life very tough for local government.

Will democracy in the way we know it now, continue - or will Caustralia arise and its citizens find themselves dominated by no alternative views, no debate and marginalisation of those who may be constructively critical?

I wonder.

FFS.....What absolute tripe.................... still look for reds under the bed pal

redden whites wrote:FFS.....What absolute tripe.................... still look for reds under the bed pal

No they are all hiding behind Julia Gillard we suspect!

Can't believe there are so many out there trembling with fear .Anyone would think that the coalition have made such pricks of themselves that revenge will be dished out in the town square . ........... shit maybe they just have.

Squawk wrote: The cynic in me wonders if PBL and News Ltd are pretty keen to capitalise on the possible alignment of the political planets and exert strong influence over things like media ownership laws, anti-siphoning legislation and the like.

.

Too late for that ..that went this term thanks to Honest John and his control of the senate that was not going to be abused.

Redden White, I think Squawk's tongue was pretty well much in his cheek with his post.
Maybe he's just worried that when we become a communist state our national flag will have more red in it than Rooster flags!
Seriously on the topic of local governments I'd be all for their abolotion, I think they're a complete waste of resources and the amount of money that would be saved by the state or federal govt taking over what they do what be incredible IMHO.

Im still at a loss who to vote for.
I'll be better off under a Labor government but my country will be better off under a Liberal government.
I might have to take the greedy way out this time and vote for the Commies perhaps just for one term.
Hopefully that's long enough for government workers to get better conditions and pay and the stolen generation to get paid out billions and I'll be happy.

Seriously, despite admittedly being a member of the Liberal Party, I am far from happy with its recent incarnation, but very worried about Labor economics and Labor authoritarian socialism hiding behind the current "nice" facade. I would like an alternative somewhere in between.

I have, not entirely jokingly, referred to myself as the "left wing of the Liberal Party" for years to people like Alexander Downer and Peter Costello, both of whose electorates I have lived in and both of whom I have met and discussed issues with. Lately, I have given them, and my current local MP, stick about the treatment of David Hicks, the abridgement of legal rights under the terrorism legislation, and the WorkChoices changes having gone too far - although the previous arrangements were too rigid to be viable for small companies. Having been a small employer, I believe companies employing 6 or less can be crippled by one bad employee they can't get rid of, but there is no need to extend the freedom to sack a worker easily to larger companies who have enough workers to carry a dud while the old formal process is gone through.

I did vote for Gough Whitlam, and was so disturbed by the economic mess that I gave out Liberal voting cards in Hindmarsh in 1975, not entirely without risk to myself, partly as a favour to a friend, the local Liberal president, who rang me because he did not want to leave a woman alone at that booth. The last time they did a guy hit her and broke her jaw. I called it an act of contrition. It was 20 years later I joined the party, partly to try to oppose the right wing march from the inside.

Unfortunately, the Labor Party marched right wing too, and under Hawke/Keating we had the same inflation and high interest rates without the leavening of Gough's liberal humanity - authoritarian socialism had emerged in Australia.

So, I am not happy to support either group, but I am less afraid of what the Libs will do. Socialist Lawyers terrify me!

I have been a labor voter for yonks ,and and have never considered myself a socialist. If being a socialist is someone who actually gives a shit about an individuals' dignity and rights then I guess I'm guilty as charged.
Someone, define todays Socialism to me. I'm concerned.

Will this do:

socialism
• noun a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
— DERIVATIVES socialist noun & adjective socialistic adjective.

That is, a bureaucracy to run everything, regulate everything, stifle everything! A political system does not have to be socialist to care for the rights and dignity of man.

From there you can have left wing [liberal] socialism where it is done by consensus or right wing [authoritarian] socialism where they will of the socialist hierarchy is imposed without waiting to achieve consensus. The classical example of the was the National Socialist Workers' Party run by Adolf Hitler.

Unfortunately, the "left wing" of the Labor Party has altered the true meaning of "left wing" and treats it as meaning compulsary and enforced socialism which in correct usage is "right wing" behaviour. That change in the meaning of the terms developed sometime after WWII.

But then the party as a whole did take the U out of labour!

So would you say that Tom Playford was a socialist?

two points,

1) the ALP is not socialist... fairly obvious really, I mean Kevin Rudd rudd is one of the more conservative leaders the ALP has had in recent times, the right wing of the party control every state and federal branch and every state and federal caucus. While the left wing of the party has a socialist fraction in it, it is not going to be taking control any sooner than cuba is going to take over the US.

2) this so called wall to wall Labor governments, aside from the fact they will disagree and squabble almost as much as normal, they likely wont be wall to wall for long. The next round of state elections I think will see numerous state governments knocked off, with most states having governments that are in their third + terms, with QLD NSW and VIC and TAS all having new leaders to the ones that were elected. Like the Howard government, governments tire and get knocked off, provided the Liberal state oppositions can put together a non threatening and capable opposition (a significant hurdle for all australian oppositions..) there is no reason that most states could be in play next election cycle. NSW should have fallen last time, and with new leaders in Vic and Qld by the next election they will be interesting. SA not as much as it is a cycle behind the eastern states, and with a huge lead, rann and the opposition still sorting themselves out, it wont happen.

blueandwhite wrote:So would you say that Tom Playford was a socialist?

Certainly more so than some, but of the liberal kind. Also, he was very proper about not abusing parliamentary services. Even when the government car picked him up from the cherry farm to take him to parliament house he considered it inappropriate for members of his family to hitch a ride to the city in it. [My older sister and his daughter were friends, and I knew her reasonable well when I lived in SA.]

I would not be as worried as I am about the lurking socialists if they could be relied on the be as liberal and as fair and proper though.

redden whites wrote:FFS.....What absolute tripe.................... still look for reds under the bed pal

Nothing to do with "reds under the bed" at all.

It's more about choice. It would be no different an equation if the country was wall to wall Liberal - democracy works best when there are different points of view.

One thing I do wonder about is the GST. To change the %age requires the agreement of all states, territories and the feds. If Rudd is elected, then I wouldn't be surprised to hear of an increase because the states are always begging for more money from the Feds.

Redden Whites and others - I will be most happy to hear of your views as to how a single Labor (or Liberal) Govt across Australia will enhance democracy. This is a once in a generation opportunity for the political solar system to have all it planets lined up. My reference to Cuba and China may have been misinterpreted but it was intended to refer to a single persuasion of government only, and not to suggest that Australia would adopt the same model of socialism/communism.

Squawk wrote:

redden whites wrote:FFS.....What absolute tripe.................... still look for reds under the bed pal

Nothing to do with "reds under the bed" at all.

It's more about choice. It would be no different an equation if the country was wall to wall Liberal - democracy works best when there are different points of view.

One thing I do wonder about is the GST. To change the %age requires the agreement of all states, territories and the feds. If Rudd is elected, then I wouldn't be surprised to hear of an increase because the states are always begging for more money from the Feds.

Redden Whites and others - I will be most happy to hear of your views as to how a single Labor (or Liberal) Govt across Australia will enhance democracy. This is a once in a generation opportunity for the political solar system to have all it planets lined up. My reference to Cuba and China may have been misinterpreted but it was intended to refer to a single persuasion of government only, and not to suggest that Australia would adopt the same model of socialism/communism.

Yes, I can't imagine any state objecting to an increase, after all it is the feds people will blame it on, because it will require the feds to create the change. Of course it can be sold as for the social good - like more free trips for MPs . [I think a technician/scientist should be sent on "fact-finding" trips not an MP.]

Unfortunately the current economic woes will be used by Mr Howard to smack labor over the head about its alleged financial misdemeanors of the past. Mr Howard also is jumping in the streets after obtaining a deal with India and Russia to take our Uranium. In my opinion this decision is politically based, not economically. Mr Howard who is as cunning as a sh-thouse rat , knows that the uranium issue is a hot potato amongst labour policy wonks Australia wide.That will give him something to throw at them as well.
Stay tuned though because I beleive Mr Rudd has plenty of issues/ammunition to throw at the government also.

I have to agree with blueandwhite. this is the first election I can remember where the ALP will have more 'scare' ammunition than the Government.

Nuclear reactors coming soon to your suburb, followed by Nick Minchin's address to the H R Nicholls Society saying that WorkChoices Mk 1 is just the beginning.

Give me nuclear reactors over some of the factories around the place anyday.

Anyway, Ive flipped again, Libs are going to make the Expressway go both ways,* Im on board the Lib bandwagon, over you Mr Rudd to offer the same and I'll jump.

But is the Southern Expressway expansion a core or a non-core promise?

redandblack wrote:I have to agree with blueandwhite. this is the first election I can remember where the ALP will have more 'scare' ammunition than the Government.

Nuclear reactors coming soon to your suburb, followed by Nick Minchin's address to the H R Nicholls Society saying that WorkChoices Mk 1 is just the beginning.

I've been working on designing my own Thorium reactor for the backyard. Now, if I can just get a few essential components..... Then I move on to my Jehovah's Witness deterrent!

Wedgie I'm not sure the money spent on the expressway will benefit the people of the South. In my experience using the expressway- and I use it reasonably often it is currently configured to benefit the people of the South. If anyone residing north of Darlington wants to use it- you can guarantee it is going the wrong way.
What sort of Government builds a 1 way freeway that is closed for an hour twice a day when it changes directions. The state liberal government should have had the balls to do the job properly in the first place.