bye bye Mr Rudd

[Dogwatcher]

Tell me what on your list you think will actually affect the outcome of the election??
It's all non current except for the David Hicks saga of which Labor's stance will blow up in their face eventually when the real truth comes out.

So it's not valid because it won't affect the election? Children overboard sure effected an election didn't it?
If it was just about this election, then you wouldn't have written "labour up to its old tricks" in your original post would you?

Looking at the list I mentioned, it would seem Liberal has plenty of old smoke and mirror tricks also.
And I do believe that elements of that list could effect this election. As I've done, people will start to tally up the wrongs of this government. That's a natural result of 16 years of government.

[our_longreach]

Tell me what on your list you think will actually affect the outcome of the election??
It's all non current except for the David Hicks saga of which Labor's stance will blow up in their face eventually when the real truth comes out.

So it's not valid because it won't affect the election? Children overboard sure effected an election didn't it?
If it was just about this election, then you wouldn't have written "labour up to its old tricks" in your original post would you?

Looking at the list I mentioned, it would seem Liberal has plenty of old smoke and mirror tricks also.
And I do believe that elements of that list could effect this election. As I've done, people will start to tally up the wrongs of this government. That's a natural result of 16 years of government.

Never said they weren't valid, just that they won't affect the election result. I agree with you on the David Hicks issue, but my view is that the general public haven't heard all there is to hear about David Hicks and the government are allowing Labor to take a stance which they will be sorry for when, just before the election, it is revealed what he was actually up to.

The Labor party will not win an election ever if they continue to behave the way they do, their "old tricks". When push comes to shove, Joe Public will vote for a government rather than an opposition with a prolonged history of in fighting and crappy leaders. As I said before oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them.

To have any chance of winning the Labor party will have to dig some serious dirt on the government, not the other way around as it currently is....

[our_longreach]

hopefully they blow JOHNNY HOWARD and his liberal mates up!!!!!!!!!!

It's stupid anarchistic comments like this, typical of the outdated and old fashioned union movement, that give the Labor party and its followers a bad name.

it may well be................

but by now if people in the country havent had enough of the propaganda that we get fed by Johnny Howard each day then we are all doomed, the future doesnt look all that great in what is supposed to be the best country in the world!!!!!!!!

What daily propaganda are you talking about?

[dash61]

If and lets hope NOT, any aussie soldiers get killed in Iraq, the lib's will be out quicker than carl lewis over 100 metres. The WA scene is reflected the same as the West Coast Eagles, scratchy, scratchy, ill scratch your back if you scratch mine.

[Dogwatcher]

Joe Public will vote for a government rather than an opposition with a prolonged history of in fighting and crappy leaders. As I said before oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them.

I know J Ho's been in power for a long time - but you have a short memory.
We could've used your quote to describe the Liberal party's chances before Howard came to power couldn't we?

Howard, Hewson, Howard, Downer, Howard - who would've thought an opposition with a prolonged history of in fighting and crappy leaders could win power eh?

[our_longreach]

Joe Public will vote for a government rather than an opposition with a prolonged history of in fighting and crappy leaders. As I said before oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them.

I know J Ho's been in power for a long time - but you have a short memory.
We could've used your quote to describe the Liberal party's chances before Howard came to power couldn't we?

Howard, Hewson, Howard, Downer, Howard - who would've thought an opposition with a prolonged history of in fighting and crappy leaders could win power eh?

Did any of them deal with crooks, have memory lapses like forgetting who Rove McManus and Michelle Leslie are or write a damaging tell all book about their political party?

[mighty_tiger_79]

hopefully they blow JOHNNY HOWARD and his liberal mates up!!!!!!!!!!

It's stupid anarchistic comments like this, typical of the outdated and old fashioned union movement, that give the Labor party and its followers a bad name.

it may well be................

but by now if people in the country havent had enough of the propaganda that we get fed by Johnny Howard each day then we are all doomed, the future doesnt look all that great in what is supposed to be the best country in the world!!!!!!!!

What daily propaganda are you talking about?

just watch channel 9

[scoob]

hopefully they blow JOHNNY HOWARD and his liberal mates up!!!!!!!!!!

It's stupid anarchistic comments like this, typical of the outdated and old fashioned union movement, that give the Labor party and its followers a bad name.

it may well be................

but by now if people in the country havent had enough of the propaganda that we get fed by Johnny Howard each day then we are all doomed, the future doesnt look all that great in what is supposed to be the best country in the world!!!!!!!!

What daily propaganda are you talking about?

just watch channel 9

Or the ABC

[Dogwatcher]

Joe Public will vote for a government rather than an opposition with a prolonged history of in fighting and crappy leaders. As I said before oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them.

I know J Ho's been in power for a long time - but you have a short memory.
We could've used your quote to describe the Liberal party's chances before Howard came to power couldn't we?

Howard, Hewson, Howard, Downer, Howard - who would've thought an opposition with a prolonged history of in fighting and crappy leaders could win power eh?

Did any of them deal with crooks, have memory lapses like forgetting who Rove McManus and Michelle Leslie are or write a damaging tell all book about their political party?

The things that batter? That ring a bell? The GST cake question? Two examples of ineptitude of the Liberals in opposition.

And if my catologue of incidents, according to you, is irrelevant to this election, then so is Bucket's forgetfulness of names. He's gone, long gone. In fact, what was his real name?

[Dogwatcher]

BTW - The Liberals have obviously been dealing with crooks.....AWB, and I'm pretty certain they had some pretty significant memory lapses during the hearing into that situation too.

[mighty_tiger_79]

BTW - The Liberals have obviously been dealing with crooks.....AWB, and I'm pretty certain they had some pretty significant memory lapses during the hearing into that situation too.

AMAAAAZZING how all the govt ministers all forgot about how much money was involved and who it was going toooooooooo

CROOKED BASTARDS

but thats nothing compared to what is happening now with LABOR and Mr RUDD apparently

[our_longreach]

The things that batter? That ring a bell? The GST cake question? Two examples of ineptitude of the Liberals in opposition.

How about the recession we had to have...

[our_longreach]

BTW - The Liberals have obviously been dealing with crooks.....AWB, and I'm pretty certain they had some pretty significant memory lapses during the hearing into that situation too.

If it was obvious why was this not the finding of the inquest??

[Dogwatcher]

Yeah - that's right we had a recession - but that's not what this debate's about. Your just bringing up any old thing now because you're finding it hard to defend J Ho.

And as for the AWB situation. You're right, it wasn't the finding at the inquest and that's because Mr Howard and Mr Downer used the truth of silence and its friend "I wasn't told".

I'm amazed they weren't cornered as unreliable witnesses - as they weren't able to remember anything, despite contradictory evidence from other parties. Other people use that defence in court/inquest hearings and are pilloried. But if you're in a position of power, you get away with these things (and it ain't just Liberal specific).

[noone]

someone asked earlier how many WA seats were in play, there are two liberal marginals sitting at around 2%, hasluck and stirling. AS for weather this issue makes a impact in WA, im not sure if its really likely. If the ALP are going to get the 5+% swing throughout the country to win 16 seats, its unlikely that WA will be 4% of the national average because of this issue (for starters i dont think anyone cares, similar to AWB), however i spose if its mixed with some good liberal margianls seats candidates in wa an other local conditions its possible that the rest of australia could swing alp but not pick up anything in wa, but its unlikely.

There are also a couple of labor marginals in WA, however given lathams performance (ie how can it go worse this time) i dont think they are in real trouble

[our_longreach]

Yeah - that's right we had a recession - but that's not what this debate's about. Your just bringing up any old thing now because you're finding it hard to defend J Ho.

And as for the AWB situation. You're right, it wasn't the finding at the inquest and that's because Mr Howard and Mr Downer used the truth of silence and its friend "I wasn't told".

I'm amazed they weren't cornered as unreliable witnesses - as they weren't able to remember anything, despite contradictory evidence from other parties. Other people use that defence in court/inquest hearings and are pilloried. But if you're in a position of power, you get away with these things (and it ain't just Liberal specific).

Not trying to and nor do I need to defend a Prime Minister that has been in power for almost 11 years. You are the one referring to past events, GST cake, things that batter, etc.

With respect to the AWB situation, if, as you say there was any element of wrongdoing from any government minister, then why the hell didn't the Labor party capatalise on this...I'll tell you why, because they were too busy infighting at the time getting rid of one leader for another.

You sound like a very frustrated Labor supporter to me. My message to you is get over it because you have another 3 years or so coming soon...

[Dogwatcher]

Not trying to and nor do I need to defend a Prime Minister that has been in power for almost 11 years. You are the one referring to past events, GST cake, things that batter, etc.

With respect to the AWB situation, if, as you say there was any element of wrongdoing from any government minister, then why the hell didn't the Labor party capatalise on this...I'll tell you why, because they were too busy infighting at the time getting rid of one leader for another.

You sound like a very frustrated Labor supporter to me. My message to you is get over it because you have another 3 years or so coming soon...

You made some suggestions that the Liberals were untouchable and hadn't made mistakes in the past - I provided proof otherwise.
The Labor Party didn't capitalise on the AWB at the time, as they were infighting and a rabble, there's no doubt about that. Just because Labor were unable to pull them up, doesn't mean the Liberals were right. Labor's failed to capitalise on many Liberal mistakes in the past decade, no doubt about it. Doesn't mean they don't exist, which is what the Liberal machine would have us believe.
As for frustrated Labor supporter -not likely - just providing an opposing view to your skewed perception.
I also don't like the direction this country's heading in under the Howard government - doesn't mean I'm a Labor voter.

[Booney]

Would little JH rather hand over to Costello,or lose to Rudd? Line ball for me.

[Sojourner]

The last thing Labor will be likely to do will be to campaign on the AWB issue!

What is the AWB? An organisation that through a single desk exports Australian wheat and as a result gets the best price for it for farmers.

If Labor campaign to have it broken up, that is likely to galvanise dissent against them in rural areas, despite the moral character of the leadership of AWB.

Labor have to pick up 16 seats to win, that means that this election has to be a massive landslide to Labor for that to happen.

Where Labor face a problem is the fact is that there may well be a number of people that dont particurly like Howard, yet are not prepared to Vote Labor, preffering to vote for the minor parites like Family First, Socialist Alliance, Greens, One Nation etc. When it is broken down, most minor party preferences go to the Liberal party not Labor.

Labor have to inspire a protest vote and insipire it to come through first preference votes of their own party.

Last election more people left the Minor parties to vote for Liberal, such was the dislike of Mark Latham, if those folks go back to their previous party rather than Labor, Labor are a no show.

[our_longreach]

doesn't mean I'm a Labor voter.

LOL