Survey results confirming what most already knew *grins*

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Re: Survey results confirming what most already knew *grins*

Postby The Sleeping Giant » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:53 am

bulldogproud2 wrote:
Do you find it interesting that what you are saying about religious people you actually practice yourself?? You are unable to accept the opinions of people who have faith yet you criticise them for not accepting yours *winks*


The opposite actually. Live and let live I say. I actually feel sorry for people of religion. The majority have been brainwashed at an early age with the assistance of their parents.
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Re: Survey results confirming what most already knew *grins*

Postby bennymacca » Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:11 am

I don't feel sorry for them, and I'm certainly all for freedom of religion. All religions not just Christianity. Where I have a problem is when they start teaching it on schools as an alternative to evolution etc
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Re: Survey results confirming what most already knew *grins*

Postby bulldogproud2 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:13 am

bennymacca wrote:I don't feel sorry for them, and I'm certainly all for freedom of religion. All religions not just Christianity. Where I have a problem is when they start teaching it on schools as an alternative to evolution etc


You will find the vast majority of schools do not teach creationism as an alternative to evolution. Most religious people support evolution and teach it.

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Re: Survey results confirming what most already knew *grins*

Postby bennymacca » Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:14 am

In Australia yes, in the US, no
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Re: Survey results confirming what most already knew *grins*

Postby bennymacca » Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:15 am

Have to admit this is pretty funny

Image
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Re: Survey results confirming what most already knew *grins*

Postby bulldogproud2 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:16 am

bennymacca wrote:We are not a snake or a shark. Claiming that a Virgin birth for a human is compatible with science is utterly ridiculous


Okay, point taken. However, do we not believe that we all evolved from the same one-cell being? Also, as the very first one-cell being, we must have been able to create life from ourself without relying on sexual means. How did the second,being develop without one to mate with? If we could do it then, why can't we do it now? *grins*
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Re: Survey results confirming what most already knew *grins*

Postby bulldogproud2 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:23 am

The Sleeping Giant wrote:
bulldogproud2 wrote:
Do you find it interesting that what you are saying about religious people you actually practice yourself?? You are unable to accept the opinions of people who have faith yet you criticise them for not accepting yours *winks*


The opposite actually. Live and let live I say. I actually feel sorry for people of religion. The majority have been brainwashed at an early age with the assistance of their parents.


Sleeping Giant, earlier I stated that science could not disprove the existence of God. You quite rightly told me that science did not have to. Science is more about proving and explaining, rather than disproving. I worded my point incorrectly. I would instead like you to explain to me the following:
Without the support of intelligent design by a creator, how did we develop the ablility to reason, have intellect, show emotion etc?

You also say that religious people are brainwashed, of low intellect and closed mind. You will find that most religious people are very open-minded and are willing to look at other viewpoints. You, on the other hand, definitely seem to have a closed mind, not being open at all to the possibility that there is a creator.

It is interesting over the last twenty years that a number of scientists, many formerly athiests, have come to the opinion that the more they study the origins of the universe, the more they have become open to the existence of an intelligent creator. They have come to the conclusion that nature is so complex, so amazing, that it seems far more valid that there has had to have been a force behind it than the odds that it just happened by random chance.

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Re: Survey results confirming what most already knew *grins*

Postby bennymacca » Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:24 am

Yes but Adam and Eve weren't single called organisms. And Mary wasn't either.
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Re: Survey results confirming what most already knew *grins*

Postby bulldogproud2 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:25 am

bennymacca wrote:In Australia yes, in the US, no


No, in the US as well, except the fundamentalist Christian schools. I throw my hands up more in shock and horror at the thoughts of these 'fundamentalists' than I do athiests btw.

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Re: Survey results confirming what most already knew *grins*

Postby bennymacca » Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:25 am

bulldogproud2 wrote:Without the support of intelligent design by a creator, how did we develop the ablility to reason, have intellect, show emotion etc?


Evolution bro.
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Re: Survey results confirming what most already knew *grins*

Postby bennymacca » Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:28 am

bulldogproud2 wrote:
bennymacca wrote:In Australia yes, in the US, no


No, in the US as well, except the fundamentalist Christian schools. I throw my hands up more in shock and horror at the thoughts of these 'fundamentalists' than I do athiests btw.

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So you accept that the basic premise of religion is to find a way of explaining things that science cannot? And that 2000 years ago we knew a hell of a lot less than we do now? And that some of the most important parts of the bible are incompatible with what we now know about the world? And that Christians have been told that of they don't believe this anymore that it is their faith being tested and they should ignore science?
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Re: Survey results confirming what most already knew *grins*

Postby shoe boy » Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:30 am

The Sleeping Giant wrote:
bulldogproud2 wrote:
Do you find it interesting that what you are saying about religious people you actually practice yourself?? You are unable to accept the opinions of people who have faith yet you criticise them for not accepting yours *winks*


The opposite actually. Live and let live I say. I actually feel sorry for people of religion. The majority have been brainwashed at an early age with the assistance of their parents.


Best post of the year :D
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Re: Survey results confirming what most already knew *grins*

Postby bulldogproud2 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:49 am

bennymacca wrote:Have to admit this is pretty funny

Image


Agreed that it is pretty funny. One of the reasons is because it shows a complete lack of understanding of religion. The Creation story in the Bible was an attempt by early mankind to provide understanding of how the world was created. We know that it is not meant to be taken literally. It is akin to Aboriginal Dreamtime stories.

It is amazing how creation works, is it not? The thought that a one-cell creature that was magically created out of a 'big bang' which came out of nothing at all has given birth to a wonderfully diverse incredible system of life that includes beings with deep intellect and the ability to reason would be as hard to fathom for many as your cartoon. However, it is fact. How did this happen? Well, 90% of people on earth believe it was through a wonderful Creator. The other 10% believe it was a complete fluke, random chance that should never have occured.
I know which one I believe is more plausible.

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Re: Survey results confirming what most already knew *grins*

Postby bennymacca » Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:03 am

bulldogproud2 wrote:
Agreed that it is pretty funny. One of the reasons is because it shows a complete lack of understanding of religion. The Creation story in the Bible was an attempt by early mankind to provide understanding of how the world was created. We know that it is not meant to be taken literally. It is akin to Aboriginal Dreamtime stories.


Basically what you are telling me is that you think you can pick and choose the stuff out of the bible that you believe, and the stuff you don't have to believe. Why is the creation story to be taken as a metaphor but nothing else? Because it has been disproved? Well I'm pretty sure coming back from the dead can't happen either bit Christians don't seem to be going out of their way to test that theory.

Which is extremely wishy washy and smacks of ignorance.

bulldogproud2 wrote:It is amazing how creation works, is it not? The thought that a one-cell creature that was magically created out of a 'big bang' which came out of nothing at all has given birth to a wonderfully diverse incredible system of life that includes beings with deep intellect and the ability to reason would be as hard to fathom for many as your cartoon. However, it is fact. How did this happen? Well, 90% of people on earth believe it was through a wonderful Creator. The other 10% believe it was a complete fluke, random chance that should never have occured.
I know which one I believe is more plausible.

Cheers


Once again, you have changed your argument to "is there a god," which is not the point I am arguing. And saying that 90% of people believe in god so therefore there must be one is ridiculous when you consider that all of the different religions think that their god is the only one.

And with regards to evolution and the fact we are sentient etc isn't a justification for a god, it is proof that evolution works.

Part of the fallacy of religion is the inherent belief that we are somehow special and different to every other species on the planet, rather than just the best.


A good article to show how bad scientific literacy is

http://www.iflscience.com/scientific-kn ... -support-0
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Re: Survey results confirming what most already knew *grins*

Postby bennymacca » Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:06 am

Also, the fact that we could be here just purely because of chance scares the shit out of people, because they like to think there is some higher purpose that makes their meaningless existence, well, meaningful.
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Re: Survey results confirming what most already knew *grins*

Postby bulldogproud2 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:25 am

bennymacca wrote:
bulldogproud2 wrote:
Agreed that it is pretty funny. One of the reasons is because it shows a complete lack of understanding of religion. The Creation story in the Bible was an attempt by early mankind to provide understanding of how the world was created. We know that it is not meant to be taken literally. It is akin to Aboriginal Dreamtime stories.


Basically what you are telling me is that you think you can pick and choose the stuff out of the bible that you believe, and the stuff you don't have to believe. Why is the creation story to be taken as a metaphor but nothing else? Because it has been disproved? Well I'm pretty sure coming back from the dead can't happen either bit Christians don't seem to be going out of their way to test that theory.

Which is extremely wishy washy and smacks of ignorance.

bulldogproud2 wrote:It is amazing how creation works, is it not? The thought that a one-cell creature that was magically created out of a 'big bang' which came out of nothing at all has given birth to a wonderfully diverse incredible system of life that includes beings with deep intellect and the ability to reason would be as hard to fathom for many as your cartoon. However, it is fact. How did this happen? Well, 90% of people on earth believe it was through a wonderful Creator. The other 10% believe it was a complete fluke, random chance that should never have occured.
I know which one I believe is more plausible.

Cheers


Once again, you have changed your argument to "is there a god," which is not the point I am arguing. And saying that 90% of people believe in god so therefore there must be one is ridiculous when you consider that all of the different religions think that their god is the only one.

And with regards to evolution and the fact we are sentient etc isn't a justification for a god, it is proof that evolution works.

Part of the fallacy of religion is the inherent belief that we are somehow special and different to every other species on the planet, rather than just the best.


A good article to show how bad scientific literacy is

http://www.iflscience.com/scientific-kn ... -support-0



Benny, unfortunately you have made a few misstatements in there. Three of the four major world faiths: Christianity, Islam and Judaism, all believe in the same God, the same Creator. What they don't agree with is their level of acceptance of things. Muslims see Jesus, not as the Son of God,but as a great prophet. Jewish people do not deny the existence of Jesus but do not see him as being the Messiah. It is not a case of faiths not believing in the same God at all.

It is all well and good to say that evolution works but it does not explain why evolution occurs, does it?? What suddenly placed thought, intellect, reason, emotion etc. into the world? Have you ever decided to actually investigate more fully. To say that one thing happens is one thing. However, explore reasons behind what causes it to happen. It shows a lack of intellectual fortitude to simply say that 'evolution occurs, therefore there is no God'. Deeper intellect can see that evolution and the existence of God can truly support one another.

Also, as for the parts of the Bible to believe in etc. I think you will find that most Christians will support the New Testament as the writing of it occurred not too long after Jesus' life and are based on factual evidence. Even non-Christians recorded aspects of Jesus' life. As for the Old Testament, particularly the earlier stages, it was just man's way of imagining what happened and trying to explain it.

Re the article, the author makes a few assumptions. He states that just because someone does not believe something, the person must never have heard about it. There is every chance that people were aware of those scientific 'explanations', they just chose not to accept them.
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Re: Survey results confirming what most already knew *grins*

Postby bulldogproud2 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:32 am

shoe boy wrote:
The Sleeping Giant wrote:
bulldogproud2 wrote:
Do you find it interesting that what you are saying about religious people you actually practice yourself?? You are unable to accept the opinions of people who have faith yet you criticise them for not accepting yours *winks*


The opposite actually. Live and let live I say. I actually feel sorry for people of religion. The majority have been brainwashed at an early age with the assistance of their parents.

Best post of the year :D


I am sure religious people will accept your pity but they don't need it, Sleeping Giant. Rather then being 'brainwashed' as you put it, many have used deep intellect to examine their beliefs and to also study scientific theories of evolution etc. As with many eminent physicists, biologists etc. they have come to the conclusion that evolution does occur but that it is through the hands of an intelligent creator. Many scientists who have studied the origins of the universe and evolution have come to the conclusion that there is too much complexity, too much wonder, in the world for it to have happened randomly, totally by chance. The deeper they look into this, the more they are convinced.
I think you will find that it is indeed those who are not prepared to look at this, a number of athiests, who are more likely to have indeed been 'brainwashed'. They simply blindly accept that evolution occurs and that is that. They don't have the depth of intellect to examine what causes evolution to occur and why amazing things such as intellect, reason, emotions etc. have formed.

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Re: Survey results confirming what most already knew *grins*

Postby bulldogproud2 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:34 am

bennymacca wrote:Also, the fact that we could be here just purely because of chance scares the shit out of people, because they like to think there is some higher purpose that makes their meaningless existence, well, meaningful.


Yes, I do wonder how people who are under the impression that life is totally meaningless get some enjoyment and value from life.

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Re: Survey results confirming what most already knew *grins*

Postby bennymacca » Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:37 am

So your sole purpose for living is because you believe in god?
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Re: Survey results confirming what most already knew *grins*

Postby bulldogproud2 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:49 am

bennymacca wrote:So your sole purpose for living is because you believe in god?


No, my coming into existence was through God. My reason for living is to bring joy to others, to help others, to become a better person in doing so.

Btw, those athiests who attack religion are sort of overlooking the fact that atheism is actually defined as a religion of its own, having all the characteristics of a religion.

http://my.firedoglake.com/ohiogringo/20 ... n-exploit/

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