SA Budget 10-11 (Public service)

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Re: SA Budget 10-11 (Public service)

Postby tipper » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:47 pm

dedja wrote:With regards to losing entitlements, there should not be any issues with leave loading, but granted the 15 day long service provision will affect a few people.

The government has every right to try to change these conditions to bring public servants in line with the rest of community. If the PSA objects (which they obviously do), then let them blow large amounts of member's finances with a High Court Challenge. The result will be interesting.


ok, just in the interests of disclosure i will say that i am a public servant.

now, with the two paragraphs above. why should there not be any issues with losing leave loading? i like my leave loading. if they are going to take it away they need to, wait for it, NEGOTIATE a different deal.

at the moment leave loading is part of our EB agreement, that by the way the government were happy to sign only six months or so before they handed down the budget. if they wanted to remove the provision, why was it not raised at that time? they had ample opportunity to negotiate a resolution, but chose to try the bully approach.

Next point, yes they do have every right to try to change the conditions, just as the workers have every right to be treated fairly, and receive just compensation for the removal of the entitlement. the workers also have the right to try to change the agreement if they dont like it dont they? isnt it supposed to be an agreement between the two parties?

It would be no different to a private company just deciding that 4 weeks leave per year was just unreasonable, starting 1 July all employees now only get one week, to be taken at a time chosen by the management, not the employee. would that sit ok wth you? or is this only ok because it is the government?

also, i see your point regarding tenure. there are a couple of people i would like to see not only removed from their positions, but removed form the gene pool all together. but if that provision is to be removed, there needs tobe a balancing benefit in its place.

for years i have heard that the wages in government are lower than the equivalent private sector position. so now the government want to pay us less, and remove the things that we get that private enterprise dont. you cant have it both ways, which is what they are trying to achieve.

i also laugh at the frequent comment when the issue of politition pay rises comes up. their response is usually something along the lines of "you have to pay the best, to get the best", it seems that belief doesnt apply regarding public servants.....
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Re: SA Budget 10-11 (Public service)

Postby dedja » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:36 pm

mick wrote:So Dedja it's OK to break an enterprise agreement? You havn't answered that. Do all employers have a right to break agreements? Sounds like a recipe for industrial anarchy to me.

Who ever said the PSA is soft as butter as an advocate is right, the government has no respect for them, so as a result a "Labor" government tramples on the entitlements of workers


I think the government has a right to take the union on, in a way that tries to short circuit the horse trading that goes with negotiating a new EB agreement. I have no issue with collective agreements and agree that negotiations should happen in good faith from both sides. The union tends to act like pork chops with outrageous demands to provoke an industrial dispute with the government when they should start from a more reasonable base to get a quicker resolution, which would be in the interest of their members.

So in essence, I agree with your assertion that anarchy should be avoided.

Looks to me like the government is trying to shoot across the bows of the union. So to answer your question, generally not a good idea to 'break' an EB agreement but the government actions need to stand up to industrial law, which will be tested in the courts. Supposedly this is the 'safety net' to ensure that worker's rights are protected.

My issue isn't really the long service leave provisions ... it's tenure.
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Re: SA Budget 10-11 (Public service)

Postby gossipgirl » Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:44 pm

the state politicians increase their salaries and super to be more inline with federal yet they dont do the same for the public service.
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Re: SA Budget 10-11 (Public service)

Postby dedja » Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:11 pm

and what was all this talk about cutting public service numbers?

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/number-of ... 6230267956

SA's public sector has grown by a quarter in the past decade, adding a $1.3 billion to the Budget.

Latest figures from the Public Sector Employment Commissioner show the number of full-time workers has reached 84,900, up 23 per cent from 68,884 in 2001
.
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Re: SA Budget 10-11 (Public service)

Postby Psyber » Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:16 am

dedja wrote:and what was all this talk about cutting public service numbers?

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/number-of ... 6230267956

SA's public sector has grown by a quarter in the past decade, adding a $1.3 billion to the Budget.

Latest figures from the Public Sector Employment Commissioner show the number of full-time workers has reached 84,900, up 23 per cent from 68,884 in 2001
.
It would be interesting to know where this growth occurred.
I doubt it is in the number of Teachers, Nurses, Research Scientists, Doctors etc.
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Re: SA Budget 10-11 (Public service)

Postby mick » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:04 am

High court has ruled in favour of the workers in the stripping of long service entitlements. Costs awarded against the state. Government went outside the enterprise agreement and starting to play the price.
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Re: SA Budget 10-11 (Public service)

Postby GWW » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:46 am

I think the decision from yesterday was just to allow the Public Service Association to put their argument forward in the Industrial Relations Commission.

We'll now have to see if the LSL cuts are overturned when they put their argument forward.

Is that correct, or have the Govt cuts actually been overturned already?
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Re: SA Budget 10-11 (Public service)

Postby Jimmy_041 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:56 am

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Re: SA Budget 10-11 (Public service)

Postby Psyber » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:52 am

I now have the answer to the question I raised above in December 2011.
The latest figures are above those dedja quoted.
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Re: SA Budget 10-11 (Public service)

Postby dedja » Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:23 pm

must have been the source of Izzy's 20,000 reduction brain fade ...
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Re: SA Budget 10-11 (Public service)

Postby Psyber » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:06 pm

dedja wrote:must have been the source of Izzy's 20,000 reduction brain fade ...
Probably.
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Re: SA Budget 10-11 (Public service)

Postby Jimmy_041 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:58 pm

I still say the majority of South Australians will gladly support a significant reduction in the public service.
1. We cant afford it
2. Not everyone is in the "love" category

The majority of votes that people think will change because of her comment were never going to vote for her in the first place
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Re: SA Budget 10-11 (Public service)

Postby Psyber » Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:34 am

This really puts public service reduction in perspective:
Chinese state-owned enterprises are making way for private companies:
* The government laid off 46 million public sector employees between 1995 and 2001.
* State owned enterprises (SOE) went from employing 60 percent of the urban population in 1990, to about 19 percent in 2010.
* SOEs' share of fixed asset investment (FAI) is down to 33 percent as of February 2012, down from 58 percent in 2004.
* But SOEs still dominate energy, telecommunications, and financial sectors.
Source: CLSA
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Re: SA Budget 10-11 (Public service)

Postby GWW » Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:42 am

Jimmy_041 wrote:I still say the majority of South Australians will gladly support a significant reduction in the public service.
1. We cant afford it
2. Not everyone is in the "love" category

The majority of votes that people think will change because of her comment were never going to vote for her in the first place


That's fine. Let her confirm what her party's policy is on this, and she can take the risk.

I suspect the other members of her party don't see things like that though.
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