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With China, one of the world's biggest polluters putting the squeeze on Asian countries, it seems that the upcoming Copenhagen Climate Change Conference is the modern equivalent of the League of Nations.

For those that came in late, the League of Nations was doomed to fail as it had no authority to police it's actions and the major nations of the world were not involved or not invited. Nevermind, I'm sure there are plenty of other planets we can move to so we can have another 50-60 years here with our current unsustainable use of resources.

regards,

REB

france

I tend to agree with you REB. I was hoping that Copenhagen would see a binding international agreement too, but it looks like it's not going to happen.
I'm sad to say I think we have now missed the boat on climate change and it will be all downhill from here.

Unfortunately I think the only thing that inspires humankind to change is the absence of all other options. Once the sea is lapping at people's doorsteps you'll see things happen. All of a sudden there will be no more petrol cars, solar farms, wind energy. Unfortunately it will probably be too late to prevent permanent damage though.

Gingernuts wrote:Unfortunately I think the only thing that inspires humankind to change is the absence of all other options. Once the sea is lapping at people's doorsteps you'll see things happen. All of a sudden there will be no more petrol cars, solar farms, wind energy. Unfortunately it will probably be too late to prevent permanent damage though.

Lucky my beach house is 2 storey - I can fish from the balcony

I'm happily living at an altitude of about 450 metres, waiting for the beach to come to me....

Don't sullly the League of Nations like that.
If i have it right, a non binding deal was agreed to by 26 of the 192 nations present. Nothing of note in it apart from some agreed climate aid. A Greenpeace member called Copenhagen a 'crime scene', but Tim Flannery thought it was a good outcome. What's next for Tim??

Copenhagen was all a bit of a farce...the CC debate is all about making money for certain contradicting people...sure we need to curb our uses but with recent findings being falsified to say its worse than what it really is, its all a bit of a joke. Its being labeled that over here for the so-called saviour in charge

You trust American analysis of world events

and/or

You watch Fox

redandblack wrote:You trust American analysis of world events

and/or

You watch Fox

I trust what americans have to say about other americans involved in those world events

i do watch fox...fair and balanced

I also watch other channels too and fox isnt the only ones crapping on copenhagen.

Jimmy wrote:Copenhagen was all a bit of a farce...the CC debate is all about making money for certain contradicting people...sure we need to curb our uses but with recent findings being falsified to say its worse than what it really is, its all a bit of a joke. Its being labeled that over here for the so-called saviour in charge

Jimmy could you please elaborate on these two statements?

Jimmy wrote:

redandblack wrote:You trust American analysis of world events

and/or

You watch Fox

I trust what americans have to say about other americans involved in those world events

i do watch fox...fair and balanced
I also watch other channels too and fox isnt the only ones crapping on copenhagen.

Thought so

fish wrote:

Jimmy wrote:Copenhagen was all a bit of a farce...the CC debate is all about making money for certain contradicting people...sure we need to curb our uses but with recent findings being falsified to say its worse than what it really is, its all a bit of a joke. Its being labeled that over here for the so-called saviour in charge

Jimmy could you please elaborate on these two statements?

No 1 - Al Gore, hypocrite, telling people they HAVE to do this and that to save the climate yet has his own private jet to fly him around...he has made more money through this endeavor than anything before. People can make money on such things, but you'd think they would lead by example.

No 2 - there were leaks from scientists who said that they changed reports and didnt report certain findings that didnt back up the current position on climate change and gave no urgency to the matter as is being presented. I can provide examples from new sources on these...would have been in the papers/online over here about 1-2 weeks ago.

I am all for looking after the environment and doing things to curb our influence but the way certain ppl shove it down our throats is disgusting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/21/science/earth/21climate.html

feel free to read up on it some more, just google climate change emails/hacked etc etc.

So....from what I've read about the proposed Government initiative, Rudd's plan was to:

1. Tax the power companies
2. Recompense the power companies for the tax
3. Partly recompense us for the higher power bills
4. Recompense the people on lower wages 120% of their higher cost

Sounds fair

Jimmy_041 wrote:So....from what I've read about the proposed Government initiative, Rudd's plan was to:

1. Tax the power companies
2. Recompense the power companies for the tax
3. Partly recompense us for the higher power bills
4. Recompense the people on lower wages 120% of their higher cost

Sounds fair

None of which actually reduces pollution - classic window dressing, and just a new tax on working people...
I suppose they could put up the argument the bigger power bills would reduce consumption, but I doubt it would happen - we are not going to go back to candles and woolly hats.
I hadn't worked through it in detail, but that was what I saw in a quick read through, too.
In contrast the German government and BMW are already rolling out Hydrogen refuelling stations, as petrol engines can convert to Hydrogen fuel fairly easily.
And, BMW are already marketing cars specifically designed for Hydrogen fuel.

More like a massive redistribution of wealth

Glad I have shares in EDE - look it up on the ASX

Perhaps off topic but this was sent to me and fascinated me (note - may not be 100% accurate)

Below is a list of the 114 Australian’s going to Copenhagen – we (you and I) are paying for all their travel, accommodation and meals – and "we thought Kevin Rudd and Penny Wong were genuine" about trying to cut greenhouse gases…
(NB. India and other major players have delegations of only 20-40 pax.)
Read on and marvel:

Australia

H.E. Mr. Kevin Michael Rudd Prime Minister
H.E. Ms. Penelope Wong Minister, Climate Change and Water Office of the Minister for Climate Change and Water
H.E. Ms. Louise Helen Hand Ambassador for Climate Change Department of Climate Change
Mr. David Fredericks Deputy Chief of Staff Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet
Mr. Philip Green Oam Senior Policy Adviser, Foreign Affairs Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet
Mr. Andrew Charlton Senior Adviser Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet
Mr. Lachlan Harris Senior Press Secretary Prime Minister’s Office Office of Prime Minister
Mr. Scott Dewar Senior Adviser Office of Prime Minister
Ms. Clare Penrose Adviser Office of Prime Minister
Ms. Fiona Sugden Media Adviser Office of Prime Minister
Ms. Lisa French Office of the Prime Minister Office of Prime Minister
Mr. Jeremy Hilman Adviser Office of Prime Minister
Ms. Tarah Barzanji Adviser Office of Prime Minister
Mr. Kate Shaw Executive Secretary Office of Prime Minister
Ms. Gaile Barnes Executive Assistant Office of Prime Minister
Ms. Gordon de Brouwer Deputy Secretary Prime Minister and Cabinet
Mr. Patrick Suckling First Assistant Secretary, International Division Prime Minister and Cabinet
Ms. Rebecca Christie Prime Minister’s Office
Mr. Michael Jones Official Photographer Prime Minister and Cabinet
Mr. Stephan Rudzki
Mr. David Bell Federal Agent Australian Federal Police
Ms. Kym Baillie Australian Federal Police
Mr. David Champion Australian Federal Police
Mr. Matt Jebb Federal Agent Australian Federal Police
Mr. Craig Kendall Federal Agent Australian Federal Police
Mr. Ian Lane Squadron Leader Staff, Officer VIP Operations
Mr. John Olenich Media Adviser / Adviser to Minister Wong Office of the Minister for Climate Change and Water
Ms. Kristina Hickey Adviser to Minister Wong Office of the Minister for Climate Change and Water
Mr. Martin Parkinson Secretary Department of Climate Change
Mr. Howard Bamsey Special Envoy for Climate Change Department of Climate Change
Mr. Robert Owen-Jones Assistant Secretary, International Division Department of Climate Change
Ms. Clare Walsh Assistant Secretary, International Division Department of Climate Change
Ms. Jenny Elizabeth Wilkinson Policy Advisor Department of Climate Change
Ms. Elizabeth Mary Peak Principal Legal Adviser, International Climate Law Department of Climate Change
Ms. Kristin Tilley Director, Multilateral Negotiations International Division Department of Climate Change
Mr. Andrew Ure Acting Director, Multilateral Negotiations International Division Department of Climate Change
Ms. Annemarie Watt Director, Land Sector Negotiations International Division Department of Climate Change
Ms. Kushla Munro Director, International Forest Carbon Section International Division Department of Climate Change
Ms. Kathleen Annette Rowley Director, Strategic and Technical Analysis Department of Climate Change
Ms. Anitra Cowan Assistant Director, Multilateral Negotiations Department of Climate Change
Ms. Sally Truong Assisting Director, Multilateral Negotiations International Division Department of Climate Change
Ms. Jane Wilkinson Assistant Director Department of Climate Change
Ms. Tracey Mackay Assistant Director International Division Department of Climate Change
Ms. Laura Brown Assistant Director, Multilateral Negotiations International Division Department of Climate Change
Ms. Tracey-Anne Leahey Delegation Manager Department of Climate Change
Ms. Nicola Loffler Senior Legal Adviser, International Climate Law Department of Climate Change
Ms. Tamara Curll Legal Adviser, International Climate Law Department of Climate Change
Ms. Jessica Allen Legal Support Officer Department of Climate Change
Mr. Sanjiva de Silva Legal Adviser, International Climate Law Department of Climate Change
Ms. Gaia Puleston Political Adviser Department of Climate Change
Ms. Penelope Jane Morton Policy Adviser, Multilateral Negotiations (UNFCCC) International Division Department of Climate Change
Ms. Claire Elizabeth Watt Policy Advisor Department of Climate Change
Ms. Amanda Walker Policy Officer, Multilateral Negotiations Department of Climate Change
Mr. Alan David Lee Policy Adviser, Land Sector Negotiations Department of Climate Change
Ms. Erika Kate Oord Australian Stakeholder Manager Department of Climate Change
Mr. Jahda Kirian Swanborough Communications Manager Ministerial Communication Department of Climate Change
H.E. Mr. Sharyn Minahan Ambassador DFAT Diplomatic Mission of Australia to Denmark
Ms. Julia Feeney Director, Climate Change and Environment Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade
Mr. Chester Geoffrey Cunningham Second Secretary DFAT Diplomatic Mission of Australia to Germany
Ms. Rachael Virginia Cooper Executive Officer, Climate Change and Environment Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade
Ms. Rachael Grivas Executive Officer, Environment Branch Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade
Moya Elyn Collett Desk officer, Climate Change and Environment Section Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade
Mr. Rob Law Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade
Mr. Robin Davies Assistant Director General, Sustainable Development Group Australian Agency for International Development
Ms. Deborah Fulton Director, Policy and Global Environment Australian Agency for International Development
Ms. Katherine Renee Ann Vaughn Policy Advisor, Policy and Global Environment Australian Agency for International Development
Mr. Brian Dawson Policy Adviser Australian Agency for International Development
Mr. Andrew Leigh Clarke Deputy Secretary Department of Resources Development, Western Australia
Mr. Bruce Wilson General Manager, Environment Energy and Environment Division Department of Resources Development, Western Australia
Ms. Jill McCarthy Policy Adviser Department of Resources, Energy and Tourism
Mr. Simon French Policy Adviser Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry
Mr. Ian Michael Ruscoe Policy Adviser Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry
Mr. David Walland Acting Superintendent, National Climate Centre Bureau of Meteorology
Mr. Damien Dunn Senior Policy Adviser The Australian Treasury
Ms. Helen Hawka Fuhrman Policy Officer, Renewable Energy Policy and Partnerships
Mr. Scott Vivian Davenport Chief Economics NSW Department of Industry and Investment
Mr. Graham Julian Levitt Policy Manager, Climate Change NSW Department of Industry and Investment
Ms. Kate Jennifer Jones Minister, Climate Change and Sustainability Queensland Government
Mr. Michael William Dart Principal Policy Advisor Office of the Hon. Kate Jones MP Queensland Government
Mr. Matthew Anthony Jamie Skoien Senior Director, Office of Climate Change Queensland Government
Mr. Michael David Rann Premier, South Australia Department of Premier and Cabinet, Southern Australia
Ms. Suzanne Kay Harter Adviser Department of Premier and Cabinet, Southern Australia
Mr. Paul David Flanagan Manager, Communications Government of South Australia
Mr. Timothy William O’Loughlin Deputy Chief Executive, Sustainability and Workforce Management Department of Premier and Cabinet South Australian Government
Ms. Nyla Sarwar M.Sc student Linacre College University of Oxford
Mr. Gavin Jennings Minister, Environment and Climate Change and Innovation, Victorian Government
Ms. Sarah Broadbent Sustainability Adviser
Ms. Rebecca Falkingham Senior Adviser Victoria Government/Office of Climate Change
Mr. Simon Camroux Policy Adviser Energy Supply Association of Australia Limited
Mr. Geoff Lake Adviser Australian Local Government Association Sridhar Ayyalaraju Post Visit Controller DFAT Diplomatic Mission of Australia to Denmark
Mr. Tegan Brink Deputy Visit Controller and Security Liaison Officer Diplomatic Mission of Australia to Denmark
Ms. Melissa Eu Suan Goh Transport Liaison Officer and Consul DFAT Diplomatic Mission of Australia to Denmark
Ms. Lauren Henschke Support Staff DFAT Diplomatic Mission of Australia to Denmark
Ms. Maree Fay Accommodation Liaison Officer DFAT Diplomatic Mission of Australia to Denmark
Ms. Patricia McKinnon Communications Officer DFAT Diplomatic Mission of Australia to Denmark
Eugene Olim Passport / Baggage Liaison Officer DFAT Diplomatic Mission of Australia to Denmark
Ms. Belinda Lee Adams
Ms. Jacqui Ashworth Media Liaison Officer Diplomatic Mission of Australia to Denmark
Ms. Patricia Smith Media Liaison Officer DFAT Diplomatic Mission of Australia to Denmark
Mr. Martin Bo Jensen Research and Public Diplomatic Officer DFAT Diplomatic Mission of Australia to Denmark
Mr. Mauro Kolobaric Consular Support DFAT Diplomatic Mission of Australia to Denmark
Ms. Susan Flanagan Consular Support DFAT Diplomatic Mission of Australia to Denmark
Mr. Stephen Kanaridis IT Support Officer DFAT Diplomatic Mission of Australia to Denmark
Mr. George Reid Support Staff DFAT Diplomatic Mission of Australia to Denmark
Ms. Ashley Wright Support Staff DFAT Diplomatic Mission of Australia to Denmark
Ms. Jodie Littlewood Support Staff DFAT Diplomatic Mission of Australia to Denmark
Mr. Thomas Millhouse Support Staff DFAT Diplomatic Mission of Australia to Denmark
Mr. Timothy Whittley Support Staff Driver DFAT Diplomatic Mission of Australia to Denmark
Ms. Julia Thomson Diplomatic Mission of Australia to Denmark
Mr. Donald Frater Chief of Staff to Minister Wong Office of the Minister for Climate Change and Water
Ms. Jacqui Smith Media Liaison DFAT Diplomatic Mission of Australia to Denmark
Mr. Greg French Senior Legal Advisor, Environment Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade
Mr. Jeremy Hillman Advisor PMO

And it reads like those who are not pollies, or their staff, are administrators rather than true scientists...
Why am I not surprised....

fish wrote:

Jimmy wrote:Copenhagen was all a bit of a farce...the CC debate is all about making money for certain contradicting people...sure we need to curb our uses but with recent findings being falsified to say its worse than what it really is, its all a bit of a joke. Its being labeled that over here for the so-called saviour in charge

Jimmy could you please elaborate on these two statements?

Don't bother with the flat-earthers mate. It doesn't matter what mainstream science says they just keep changing the goal posts when pulled up. Look at Ian Plimer's humiliating performance on Lateline the other week, they're all about trying to muddy the waters.