Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two months

[bulldogproud2]

Jimmy, you may be interested in the following points I came across re your assertion that all asylum seekers would love to come to Australia'.

'National pride might be chastened to realise how few of those who find themselves approaching Christmas Island actually set out with a specific vision of Australia as their promised land.

Among developed countries, Australia is one of the least favoured destinations for asylum seekers, its one advantage being that it offers a physically warm climate. Asylum seekers who have any choice as to their ultimate destination prefer the United States, Canada or Europe before Australia.'

This is even for those who ARE ACTUALLY travelling to Australia!!

The actual article is:

https://theconversation.com/who-are-aus ... lanes-8361

The following one gives good reason as to why asylum seekers in Indonesia do try to leave there and head anywhere they can:

https://theconversation.com/asylum-seek ... boats-8334

From it, I quote:

'Our most significant finding, however, was that material living conditions were not the greatest concern of the individuals we interviewed. Rather most of their very real suffering and despair was caused by:

being deprived of the sense of purpose and dignity which work provides,
seeing their children miss out on education and hence the opportunities which education provides, and
the sense of being trapped in a homeless limbo: unable to return to their country of origin, having no prospect of settling lawfully in Indonesia (an option which many would have chosen if it had been available), and having little prospect of being resettled in a third country.
Why do refugees get on boats?

The profoundly negative impact which life in limbo has on mental health leads some to start thinking that returning to the dangers of their home country would be preferable to their existence in Indonesia.

For example, one refugee woman told us,

If I die in my country it’s better for me. Because here I die and in my country die and it’s the die not change. But in my country you can die quickly by gun. Somebody kill you like this. Here by step!
Others start thinking that attempting to reach Australia by boat is the least horrible option available to them. It is very easy to understand why. From their perspective, all they are risking is their bodies, not their lives. Their lives have already been lost.

Cheers

[Jimmy_041]

Tigerpie more than 90% of boat arrivals are assessed as genuine refugees.

I'm beginning to doubt that figure
I'm reading 90% from Afghanistan; not total

And, if true, the 10% is enough to ensure we process everyone properly
I bet 100% of those who submit a proper application, get refugee status, and arrive here are genuine refugees.

Public Health Association document
Note Myth No 5

[Jimmy_041]

Jimmy, you may be interested in the following points I came across re your assertion that all asylum seekers would love to come to Australia'.

'National pride might be chastened to realise how few of those who find themselves approaching Christmas Island actually set out with a specific vision of Australia as their promised land.

Among developed countries, Australia is one of the least favoured destinations for asylum seekers, its one advantage being that it offers a physically warm climate. Asylum seekers who have any choice as to their ultimate destination prefer the United States, Canada or Europe before Australia.'

This is even for those who ARE ACTUALLY travelling to Australia!!

The actual article is:

https://theconversation.com/who-are-aus ... lanes-8361

The following one gives good reason as to why asylum seekers in Indonesia do try to leave there and head anywhere they can:

https://theconversation.com/asylum-seek ... boats-8334

From it, I quote:

'Our most significant finding, however, was that material living conditions were not the greatest concern of the individuals we interviewed. Rather most of their very real suffering and despair was caused by:

being deprived of the sense of purpose and dignity which work provides,
seeing their children miss out on education and hence the opportunities which education provides, and
the sense of being trapped in a homeless limbo: unable to return to their country of origin, having no prospect of settling lawfully in Indonesia (an option which many would have chosen if it had been available), and having little prospect of being resettled in a third country.
Why do refugees get on boats?

The profoundly negative impact which life in limbo has on mental health leads some to start thinking that returning to the dangers of their home country would be preferable to their existence in Indonesia.

For example, one refugee woman told us,

If I die in my country it’s better for me. Because here I die and in my country die and it’s the die not change. But in my country you can die quickly by gun. Somebody kill you like this. Here by step!
Others start thinking that attempting to reach Australia by boat is the least horrible option available to them. It is very easy to understand why. From their perspective, all they are risking is their bodies, not their lives. Their lives have already been lost.

Cheers

So many holes in that article you could drive a truck through them

National pride might be chastened to realise how few of those who find themselves approaching Christmas Island actually set out with a specific vision of Australia as their promised land.

So where the dickens were they going? Antarctica? Have you ever looked at a map of where Christmas Island is???


Give me a break: what a crock of $hit

[Psyber]

Tigerpie more than 90% of boat arrivals are assessed as genuine refugees.

I'm beginning to doubt that figure
I'm reading 90% from Afghanistan; not total

And, if true, the 10% is enough to ensure we process everyone properly
I bet 100% of those who submit a proper application, get refugee status, and arrive here are genuine refugees.

Public Health Association document
Note Myth No 5

There is still the question of how realistic the assessments are and how hard or soft are the criteria set by the department concerned, and their masters in government for their political purposes. For comparison, we have been soft on alcohol fuelled violence for a long time, and hard on tax avoidance where nobody is physically injured.

[bennymacca]

So it seems like the crux of the issue for you blokes is that you don't really believe that asylum seekers have a genuine reason to be trying to get to Australia at all?

[tigerpie]

Benny...mate. That is not what we are saying at all.

Read all of the posters comments.

I know some of it is a lot to take in but they were written slowly because i dont think you can read fast...no offence

[bennymacca]

Saying no offence at the end doesn't mean you aren't a dick. I was asking a genuine question, as it seems like most opponents of asylum seekers coming here would rather they went somewhere else, even if genuine. Hence the talk about staying in some of the other countries mentioned

[Psyber]

I'd certainly prefer most Muslims went somewhere else, because I think their faith is generally evangelical by its very nature - as mainstream Christianity was about 600 years ago - especially so among the less educated, and that they will gradually, as their numbers grow, try to change our societal values towards those they are more familiar with. I have nothing against individual Muslims I have mixed with socially and professionally, but am concerned with the generality.

There are already arguments being raised by some in Sydney that we should tolerate Shariah law in parallel with our legal system, subsidise Halal butchers, and subsidise trips back to their homeland to visit relatives and their holy sites as it is their cultural need.

PS: Mind you I'd feel the same about a large influx of militant Christians too.

[bennymacca]

And there it is....

[bennymacca]

Do you treat all Christians with the same disdain as the westborough baptists?

[tigerpie]

Saying no offence at the end doesn't mean you aren't a dick. I was asking a genuine question, as it seems like most opponents of asylum seekers coming here would rather they went somewhere else, even if genuine. Hence the talk about staying in some of the other countries mentioned

Yeah it does.

READ your post.
"So it seems like the crux of the issue for you blokes is that you don't really believe that asylum seekers have a genuine reason to be trying to get to Australia at all?"

It was a statement with a question mark after it. Not a question.....no offence.

[Jimmy_041]

Saying no offence at the end doesn't mean you aren't a dick. I was asking a genuine question, as it seems like most opponents of asylum seekers coming here would rather they went somewhere else, even if genuine. Hence the talk about staying in some of the other countries mentioned

You have missed the points.

As for:

"you don't really believe that asylum seekers have a genuine reason to be trying to get to Australia at all"

I do think that all asylum seekers have a genuine reason to be trying to get to Australia - that's never been in question.

[The Sleeping Giant]

So it seems like the crux of the issue for you blokes is that you don't really believe that asylum seekers have a genuine reason to be trying to get to Australia at all?

Lets just make sure they are genuine reasons before letting them set foot on Australian soil.

[bennymacca]

That's what processing centres are for. 100% agree with them. What I don't agree with is Australians forcibly turning board back, sending those people to PNG and then settling them in PNG, never to set foot in Australia. I think that is incredibly inhumane

[bulldogproud2]

Jimmy, you may be interested in the following points I came across re your assertion that all asylum seekers would love to come to Australia'.

'National pride might be chastened to realise how few of those who find themselves approaching Christmas Island actually set out with a specific vision of Australia as their promised land.

Among developed countries, Australia is one of the least favoured destinations for asylum seekers, its one advantage being that it offers a physically warm climate. Asylum seekers who have any choice as to their ultimate destination prefer the United States, Canada or Europe before Australia.'

This is even for those who ARE ACTUALLY travelling to Australia!!

The actual article is:

https://theconversation.com/who-are-aus ... lanes-8361

The following one gives good reason as to why asylum seekers in Indonesia do try to leave there and head anywhere they can:

https://theconversation.com/asylum-seek ... boats-8334

From it, I quote:

'Our most significant finding, however, was that material living conditions were not the greatest concern of the individuals we interviewed. Rather most of their very real suffering and despair was caused by:

being deprived of the sense of purpose and dignity which work provides,
seeing their children miss out on education and hence the opportunities which education provides, and
the sense of being trapped in a homeless limbo: unable to return to their country of origin, having no prospect of settling lawfully in Indonesia (an option which many would have chosen if it had been available), and having little prospect of being resettled in a third country.
Why do refugees get on boats?

The profoundly negative impact which life in limbo has on mental health leads some to start thinking that returning to the dangers of their home country would be preferable to their existence in Indonesia.

For example, one refugee woman told us,

If I die in my country it’s better for me. Because here I die and in my country die and it’s the die not change. But in my country you can die quickly by gun. Somebody kill you like this. Here by step!
Others start thinking that attempting to reach Australia by boat is the least horrible option available to them. It is very easy to understand why. From their perspective, all they are risking is their bodies, not their lives. Their lives have already been lost.

Cheers

So many holes in that article you could drive a truck through them

National pride might be chastened to realise how few of those who find themselves approaching Christmas Island actually set out with a specific vision of Australia as their promised land.

So where the dickens were they going? Antarctica? Have you ever looked at a map of where Christmas Island is???


Give me a break: what a crock of $hit

They are just happy to get anywhere. The point trying to be made is that rather going 'towards' somewhere, they are getting 'away' from somewhere - persecution, threats to their life etc.
Cheers

[bulldogproud2]

This may well be worth a read, just came through on Crikey. Never thought an apology to Tony Abbott would appear, but I agree that the apology is deserved:

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/thestump/201 ... ny-abbott/

[bennymacca]

Pretty much agree with all of that

[bulldogproud2]

Jimmy, you may be interested in the following points I came across re your assertion that all asylum seekers would love to come to Australia'.

'National pride might be chastened to realise how few of those who find themselves approaching Christmas Island actually set out with a specific vision of Australia as their promised land.

Among developed countries, Australia is one of the least favoured destinations for asylum seekers, its one advantage being that it offers a physically warm climate. Asylum seekers who have any choice as to their ultimate destination prefer the United States, Canada or Europe before Australia.'

This is even for those who ARE ACTUALLY travelling to Australia!!

The actual article is:

https://theconversation.com/who-are-aus ... lanes-8361

The following one gives good reason as to why asylum seekers in Indonesia do try to leave there and head anywhere they can:

https://theconversation.com/asylum-seek ... boats-8334

From it, I quote:

'Our most significant finding, however, was that material living conditions were not the greatest concern of the individuals we interviewed. Rather most of their very real suffering and despair was caused by:

being deprived of the sense of purpose and dignity which work provides,
seeing their children miss out on education and hence the opportunities which education provides, and
the sense of being trapped in a homeless limbo: unable to return to their country of origin, having no prospect of settling lawfully in Indonesia (an option which many would have chosen if it had been available), and having little prospect of being resettled in a third country.
Why do refugees get on boats?

The profoundly negative impact which life in limbo has on mental health leads some to start thinking that returning to the dangers of their home country would be preferable to their existence in Indonesia.

For example, one refugee woman told us,

If I die in my country it’s better for me. Because here I die and in my country die and it’s the die not change. But in my country you can die quickly by gun. Somebody kill you like this. Here by step!
Others start thinking that attempting to reach Australia by boat is the least horrible option available to them. It is very easy to understand why. From their perspective, all they are risking is their bodies, not their lives. Their lives have already been lost.

Cheers

So many holes in that article you could drive a truck through them

National pride might be chastened to realise how few of those who find themselves approaching Christmas Island actually set out with a specific vision of Australia as their promised land.

So where the dickens were they going? Antarctica? Have you ever looked at a map of where Christmas Island is???


Give me a break: what a crock of $hit

They are just happy to get anywhere. The point trying to be made is that rather going 'towards' somewhere, they are getting 'away' from somewhere - persecution, threats to their life etc.
Cheers

Jimmy,
If there are so many holes, please point them out.
Now, as for your assertion that you think only 70% of boat arrivals may in fact be genuine, you will find that the percentage who gained refugee status over the last 6 years has been between 90 and 95%. This is the official figures coming from the government:

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/ ... c348096470

Cheers

[bulldogproud2]

Pretty much agree with all of that

Yes, it does get pretty worrying when even Chinese officials, with a valid reason, condemn Australia's human rights policies.

[Jimmy_041]

Jimmy,

Now, as for your assertion that you think only 70% of boat arrivals may in fact be genuine, you will find that the percentage who gained refugee status over the last 6 years has been between 90 and 95%. This is the official figures coming from the government:

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/ ... c348096470

Cheers

Who said 70%? I have given you the source of where I got the 84% from