Is the Australian Government Sorry Now?

[smac]

Not like you to overreact mate....

LOL.

Thought you'd like that bit.

What about the last part of my post? I'm genuinely curious - most records were either destroyed or not kept, how should it be determined who is compensated?

[Andy #24]

I know this is a sensitive issue, so I hope this is received as the genuinely intended legitimate question (I'm the first to admit I'm NOT as learned on this topic as others) it's meant to be ... But I know of people close to me who claim (privately and without any concern toward recompense) to have been non-indigenous people "stolen" from their family, and I just wonder why this topic doesn't seem to encompass such a thing?

I think the difference is the cultural element. Idigenous people lost their sense of identity and culture when removed from their families. This is the crucial difference between them and say the Brittish orphans sent over here who suffered some of the same hardships as the stolen generation. However, those abused should be compensated regardless, I assume we are talking about compensation just for the removal irrelevant of whether abuse took place.

[JK]

Thanks Andy, you make a very good point (re: sense of identity and culture)

[Punk Rooster]

So many points to make here...

I'm a member of the stolen generation, I don't know life to be any different. The Government of the day says sorry for something that happened to me 40+ years ago....
- I'm sick of the whole saga anyway, let me get on with my life etc
- ok, so you say sorry. Sorry doesn't give me memories of growing up in traditional ways with my family, & getting to know them etc
- Monetary compensation? What do I do with that? What child-hood memories can I buy with that etc
- Yes, I'll take the money thanks. It won't change a thing from the past, but hey, free money etc

& to the w&nkers like Topsy who want to turn my above situations into commentary from a racist, get a life. Or perhaps do your part for the cause & give your comfortable middle-class dwelling & lifestyle to someone less fortunate, whilst yourself moving to the poorer areas of Huntfield Heights/Elizabeth West...

[mick]

So many points to make here...

I'm a member of the stolen generation, I don't know life to be any different. The Government of the day says sorry for something that happened to me 40+ years ago....
- I'm sick of the whole saga anyway, let me get on with my life etc
- ok, so you say sorry. Sorry doesn't give me memories of growing up in traditional ways with my family, & getting to know them etc
- Monetary compensation? What do I do with that? What child-hood memories can I buy with that etc
- Yes, I'll take the money thanks. It won't change a thing from the past, but hey, free money etc

& to the w&nkers like Topsy who want to turn my above situations into commentary from a racist, get a life. Or perhaps do your part for the cause & give your comfortable middle-class dwelling & lifestyle to someone less fortunate, whilst yourself moving to the poorer areas of Huntfield Heights/Elizabeth West...

BRAVO!

[Footy Chick]

Lets hope he doesn't.

That's pretty selfish and short sighted Brad, there's a helluva lot of poor lawyers who will be relying on this to put the kids through a good school or to buy a nice new BMW 7-series The stolen generation is a shameful period in our history unfortunately the buzzards are circling. I would rather Rudd made an ex-gratia payment to those who were wronged and keep the schysters and courts out of it.

I dont even know what im doing in here, I hate politics with a passion, but isnt Rudd apologising the stolen gen like George Bush apologising to the slaves???

I dont get it...

[Punk Rooster]

Lets hope he doesn't.

That's pretty selfish and short sighted Brad, there's a helluva lot of poor lawyers who will be relying on this to put the kids through a good school or to buy a nice new BMW 7-series The stolen generation is a shameful period in our history unfortunately the buzzards are circling. I would rather Rudd made an ex-gratia payment to those who were wronged and keep the schysters and courts out of it.

I dont even know what im doing in here, I hate politics with a passion, but isnt Rudd apologising the stolen gen like George Bush apologising to the slaves???

I dont get it...

You'd think so FC, but others here would have you branded racist for considering it...

[Andy #24]

I think someone would have apologised to the slaves a long time ago, if they haven't why not?

The point is the Government did something attrocious and should apologise for it. The change in governments and passing of time makes no difference. The Government then was elected and acted with the authority and representively of the Australian people. Can't just pass the buck and say it wasn't me or it was a different government. The Australian public committed the wrongdoing and the only people who can apologise for them is the Australian Government of today.

It is not pointless which is evident from the people campaigning for it.

[Dirko]

Lets hope he doesn't.

That's pretty selfish and short sighted Brad, there's a helluva lot of poor lawyers who will be relying on this to put the kids through a good school or to buy a nice new BMW 7-series The stolen generation is a shameful period in our history unfortunately the buzzards are circling. I would rather Rudd made an ex-gratia payment to those who were wronged and keep the schysters and courts out of it.

I dont even know what im doing in here, I hate politics with a passion, but isnt Rudd apologising the stolen gen like George Bush apologising to the slaves???

I dont get it...

You'd think so FC, but others here would have you branded racist for considering it...

That's the problem isn't it Punk. Sometimes it's almost a case of reverse racism...
Don't criticise or say anything that you believe as no matter what you say, there is always someone to take it out of context.
Personally, MY generation didn't do anything wrong that I am aware of to anybody. Why should MY generation pay for the wrongs of yesteryear.
Hell if I wanted to right the wrongs from yesteryear, I'd sue the Japanese for killing my Great Aunty & Uncle, sue the Germans for driving my fathers parents and relatives from their home in the Netherlands and burning down the village whilst taking and destroying all their worthy goods.
If there is a lawsuit, it will be my generation and my kids generation which will pay for something in which the government of the time thought was right.
I am sure that things happened to the stolen generation that shouldn't have happened, but the government of the time did it. Move on.
There have been worse things happen to people, and there will continue to be such.

[Punk Rooster]

The Australian public committed the wrongdoing and the only people who can apologise for them is the Australian Government of today.

It is not pointless which is evident from the people campaigning for it.

Not sure they did Andy, thought it was Government Policy...

Would an annual day of remeberance be an appropriate means to say sorry?
Would that help the healing process, or would it be a constant reminder to a time in our history that people from all walks of life regret?

If it gave the stolen generation closure, then that would be a far better outcome than a record payout, a % of which goes back to "socially-responsible" (& now wealthier) lawyers...

[Andy #24]

Nice editing of quotes Punky. Read the two sentences before that. The government acts on our behalf, that's constitutional democracy.

[Wedgie]

You missed the most important one Punky.

- My life's been a complete mess as Ive had no identity, have felt alienated by white folk because Im classed as black (when I eventually found out), have felt alienated by the black folk (as my tribe isn't from around these parts. With a bit of cash of which I have none now I might be able to set up my life, move up to where my family are from, settle down for the first time in my life and has some peace in my retirement years as opposed to feeling the need to work now despite being 3 years past the age pension, perhaps even help my kids out so they don't go down the same track and feel a lot better about myself.

"Stealing" a generation has a huge impact on why indigeneous folk have such a young lifespan and poor living.

If they don't make a compensation payout then money will go to lawyers, if the government make a responsible payment accepted by the groups involved then a hell of a lot less will go to the lawyer.

As someone mentioned previously, is it a Federal or State issue? I know at least one compensation payment has been made in Tasmania already from memory.
Anyone who thinks they know about this topic should perhaps read the Bringing Them Home Report at the very least before commenting otherwise they have absolutely no idea, none.

[Wedgie]

I'm genuinely curious - most records were either destroyed or not kept, how should it be determined who is compensated?

As far as I'm aware very well kept records are still in abundance for at least 95% of the people involved so that's not an issue.
If no cases arose after a compensation payment was announced I would imagine their would be a lot of suspicion and comprehensive evidence would be required.
You'd be amazed at the amount of "big brother" records still kept from 2 generations ago.

[Wedgie]

That's the problem isn't it Punk. Sometimes it's almost a case of reverse racism...
Don't criticise or say anything that you believe as no matter what you say, there is always someone to take it out of context.
Personally, MY generation didn't do anything wrong that I am aware of to anybody. Why should MY generation pay for the wrongs of yesteryear.
Hell if I wanted to right the wrongs from yesteryear, I'd sue the Japanese for killing my Great Aunty & Uncle, sue the Germans for driving my fathers parents and relatives from their home in the Netherlands and burning down the village whilst taking and destroying all their worthy goods.
If there is a lawsuit, it will be my generation and my kids generation which will pay for something in which the government of the time thought was right.
I am sure that things happened to the stolen generation that shouldn't have happened, but the government of the time did it. Move on.
There have been worse things happen to people, and there will continue to be such.

I assume you'd be dead against the Age Pension then? As your generation didn't force those people to get old afterall?

[RustyCage]

All this legal crap is just an excuse to not recognise a shameful part of our history, regardless of the reasons at the time.

Will there be an apology to the reasonable percentage of people that were removed from their families that weren't indigenous?

[Andy #24]

You missed the most important one Punky.

- My life's been a complete mess as Ive had no identity, have felt alienated by white folk because Im classed as black (when I eventually found out), have felt alienated by the black folk (as my tribe isn't from around these parts. With a bit of cash of which I have none now I might be able to set up my life, move up to where my family are from, settle down for the first time in my life and has some peace in my retirement years as opposed to feeling the need to work now despite being 3 years past the age pension, perhaps even help my kids out so they don't go down the same track and feel a lot better about myself.

"Stealing" a generation has a huge impact on why indigeneous folk have such a young lifespan and poor living.

If they don't make a compensation payout then money will go to lawyers, if the government make a responsible payment accepted by the groups involved then a hell of a lot less will go to the lawyer.

As someone mentioned previously, is it a Federal or State issue? I know at least one compensation payment has been made in Tasmania already from memory.
Anyone who thinks they know about this topic should perhaps read the Bringing Them Home Report at the very least before commenting otherwise they have absolutely no idea, none.

There was also a payout here recently too Wedgie. They were talking about it opening up the avenue for others but I think proving the harm done may be too difficult in a lot of cases. The guy that won the case had a few demonstrable conditions which could be linked to being part of the stolen generation. Plus the cost of litigation is a massive deterrent.

People regret all sorts of things Punky, the point is we shouldn't forget about them. I don't know but I guess that would add to the disillusionment Wedgie is talking about. Victims in all sorts of cases sometimes simply want acknowledgement.

[Dirko]

I assume you'd be dead against the Age Pension then? As your generation didn't force those people to get old afterall?

I wasn't referring to the Age Pension, what I was referring too was the wrongs of yesteryear impacting on the generation today. Last I heard there was nothing wrong with getting old.

If I could believe the compensation would be used in the right manner, the right people get it and the money is used to the betterment of Australians I'd reserve judgement then but, there's just something ringing alarm bells in that article that smac posted...

[Wedgie]

All this legal crap is just an excuse to not recognise a shameful part of our history, regardless of the reasons at the time.

Will there be an apology to the reasonable percentage of people that were removed from their families that weren't indigenous?

Definately, if it was because of their race and it was forcible.

[Andy #24]

All this legal crap is just an excuse to not recognise a shameful part of our history, regardless of the reasons at the time.

Will there be an apology to the reasonable percentage of people that were removed from their families that weren't indigenous?

Yes, if they were removed for a frivilous reason.

[Wedgie]

I assume you'd be dead against the Age Pension then? As your generation didn't force those people to get old afterall?

I wasn't referring to the Age Pension, what I was referring too was the wrongs of yesteryear impacting on the generation today. Last I heard there was nothing wrong with getting old.

Ahhh, Im with you now, there's nothing wrong with getting old but being aboriginal on the other hand.....

Same thing mate, you should be even more bitter.
Having to pay for old bludgers that didn't save their own money as opposed to people who had their lives ruined after being forcibly removed from their own families.
No comparison, you must be yelling abuse at every oldy you come across!

PS At least the average aboriginal doesn't sponge off your generation as they usually don't get old enough to claim an Age Pension.