Abbott/Liberal Govt Watch

[Q.]

Renewables provided almost nothing yesterday when needed.

At the end of the day the issue is cause by Hazelwood shutting down.

SAs problem is still the lack of generation. I'm not suggesting that Northern or Playford B were the answer as I and fully aware of the issues with the Leigh Creek coal source, however another generation source to SAs Market would make a big difference.

There are a couple of pumped hydro projects that could inject another 250 - 400 MW to our grid being looked at.

Also hats off to Jay and his guys, whilst I do feel he has let us down in the long term with energy, his government engines project provided the needed stabily and generation to the grid.

What we need is to get these engines on to gas and get them part of the market. If that means the SA government become an energy player again, then so be it.

That really depends on what time of the day yesterday you single out - was over 60% renewables in some parts. At 3.30PM SA renewables output was 65.7% and 8GWH was being exported to VIC.

Realistically, it wasn't renewables at fault - coal provided nothing when needed:

- loy yang A unit 2 530MW
- loy yang A unit 3 560MW
- yallourn unit 3 380MW
- yallourn unit 4 380MW

All out of service yesterday. And if you include liddell unit 2 @ 500 MW, that's 2350MW out of service in NSW and VIC. NSW and VIC were bailed out by SA.

Mega batteries and a pumped hydro plant can cover the gaps that existed on Friday.

[stan]

Renewables provided almost nothing yesterday when needed.

At the end of the day the issue is cause by Hazelwood shutting down.

SAs problem is still the lack of generation. I'm not suggesting that Northern or Playford B were the answer as I and fully aware of the issues with the Leigh Creek coal source, however another generation source to SAs Market would make a big difference.

There are a couple of pumped hydro projects that could inject another 250 - 400 MW to our grid being looked at.

Also hats off to Jay and his guys, whilst I do feel he has let us down in the long term with energy, his government engines project provided the needed stabily and generation to the grid.

What we need is to get these engines on to gas and get them part of the market. If that means the SA government become an energy player again, then so be it.

That really depends on what time of the day yesterday you single out - was over 60% renewables in some parts. At 3.30PM SA renewables output was 65.7% and 8GWH was being exported to VIC.

Realistically, it wasn't renewables at fault - coal provided nothing when needed:

- loy yang A unit 2 530MW
- loy yang A unit 3 560MW
- yallourn unit 3 380MW
- yallourn unit 4 380MW

All out of service yesterday. And if you include liddell unit 2 @ 500 MW, that's 2350MW out of service in NSW and VIC. NSW and VIC were bailed out by SA.

Mega batteries and a pumped hydro plant can cover the gaps that existed on Friday.

NSW were bailed out by Queensland. They always are. SA assisted Victoria with fossil fuels.

The old coal generators did indeed fail, however they pretty much powered the country.

Renewables provided very little in Victoria and NSW and also those figures from DA are surprising, not sure where you got them fro. But SA was generating close to 2GW from gas. Can you supply the direct nem output as I am sure it wasn't even close to that. I assume that's where your figures come from because you wouldn't just make something up to support your position.

Also renewables not letting us down. Come on mate they were not giving us much. See attached.

[Q.]

Renewables provided almost nothing yesterday when needed.

At the end of the day the issue is cause by Hazelwood shutting down.

SAs problem is still the lack of generation. I'm not suggesting that Northern or Playford B were the answer as I and fully aware of the issues with the Leigh Creek coal source, however another generation source to SAs Market would make a big difference.

There are a couple of pumped hydro projects that could inject another 250 - 400 MW to our grid being looked at.

Also hats off to Jay and his guys, whilst I do feel he has let us down in the long term with energy, his government engines project provided the needed stabily and generation to the grid.

What we need is to get these engines on to gas and get them part of the market. If that means the SA government become an energy player again, then so be it.

That really depends on what time of the day yesterday you single out - was over 60% renewables in some parts. At 3.30PM SA renewables output was 65.7% and 8GWH was being exported to VIC.

Realistically, it wasn't renewables at fault - coal provided nothing when needed:

- loy yang A unit 2 530MW
- loy yang A unit 3 560MW
- yallourn unit 3 380MW
- yallourn unit 4 380MW

All out of service yesterday. And if you include liddell unit 2 @ 500 MW, that's 2350MW out of service in NSW and VIC. NSW and VIC were bailed out by SA.

Mega batteries and a pumped hydro plant can cover the gaps that existed on Friday.

NSW were bailed out by Queensland. They always are. SA assisted Victoria with fossil fuels.

The old coal generators did indeed fail, however they pretty much powered the country.

Renewables provided very little in Victoria and NSW and also those figures from DA are surprising, not sure where you got them fro. But SA was generating close to 2GW from gas. Can you supply the direct nem output as I am sure it wasn't even close to that. I assume that's where your figures come from because you wouldn't just make something up to support your position.

Also renewables not letting us down. Come on mate they were not giving us much. See attached.

Renewables output stat is on the Open Nem website

[Jimmy_041]

Renewables provided almost nothing yesterday when needed.

At the end of the day the issue is cause by Hazelwood shutting down.

SAs problem is still the lack of generation. I'm not suggesting that Northern or Playford B were the answer as I and fully aware of the issues with the Leigh Creek coal source, however another generation source to SAs Market would make a big difference.

There are a couple of pumped hydro projects that could inject another 250 - 400 MW to our grid being looked at.

Also hats off to Jay and his guys, whilst I do feel he has let us down in the long term with energy, his government engines project provided the needed stabily and generation to the grid.

What we need is to get these engines on to gas and get them part of the market. If that means the SA government become an energy player again, then so be it.

That really depends on what time of the day yesterday you single out - was over 60% renewables in some parts. At 3.30PM SA renewables output was 65.7% and 8GWH was being exported to VIC.

Realistically, it wasn't renewables at fault - coal provided nothing when needed:

- loy yang A unit 2 530MW
- loy yang A unit 3 560MW
- yallourn unit 3 380MW
- yallourn unit 4 380MW

All out of service yesterday. And if you include liddell unit 2 @ 500 MW, that's 2350MW out of service in NSW and VIC. NSW and VIC were bailed out by SA.

Mega batteries and a pumped hydro plant can cover the gaps that existed on Friday.

I was watching the NEM and Renew Economy websites all that day
I wish I’d taken screenshots by the hour. SA was predominantly powered by gas (that’s fossil fuel BTW) until the fossil fuel engines fired up. Wind was minuscule
Coal was dominant all over the rest of Australia except Tasmania
At one stage in the afternoon, the spot price in SA and Victoria was something like $14,000 whilst $300 in Qld and NSW and minus in Tas

[Q.]

Renewables provided almost nothing yesterday when needed.

At the end of the day the issue is cause by Hazelwood shutting down.

SAs problem is still the lack of generation. I'm not suggesting that Northern or Playford B were the answer as I and fully aware of the issues with the Leigh Creek coal source, however another generation source to SAs Market would make a big difference.

There are a couple of pumped hydro projects that could inject another 250 - 400 MW to our grid being looked at.

Also hats off to Jay and his guys, whilst I do feel he has let us down in the long term with energy, his government engines project provided the needed stabily and generation to the grid.

What we need is to get these engines on to gas and get them part of the market. If that means the SA government become an energy player again, then so be it.

That really depends on what time of the day yesterday you single out - was over 60% renewables in some parts. At 3.30PM SA renewables output was 65.7% and 8GWH was being exported to VIC.

Realistically, it wasn't renewables at fault - coal provided nothing when needed:

- loy yang A unit 2 530MW
- loy yang A unit 3 560MW
- yallourn unit 3 380MW
- yallourn unit 4 380MW

All out of service yesterday. And if you include liddell unit 2 @ 500 MW, that's 2350MW out of service in NSW and VIC. NSW and VIC were bailed out by SA.

Mega batteries and a pumped hydro plant can cover the gaps that existed on Friday.

I was watching the NEM and Renew Economy websites all that day
I wish I’d taken screenshots by the hour. SA was predominantly powered by gas (that’s fossil fuel BTW) until the fossil fuel engines fired up. Wind was minuscule
Coal was dominant all over the rest of Australia except Tasmania
At one stage in the afternoon, the spot price in SA and Victoria was something like $14,000 whilst $300 in Qld and NSW and minus in Tas

You don't need screenshots. It's still on the website.

We've already established that the market was gamed to increase spot price.

[Jimmy_041]

Who cares about the price.
The rubbish that renewables saved the day is laughable.
There was black, brown & red (& later blue) on the RE website providing the vast majority of our power requirements on the day - all fossil fuels
As far as I remember wind power was non existent that day
Those that bag power stations for going offline for maintenance and then say renewables are therefore
more reliable can’t be serious. The power stations are requiring more maintenance because they are getting older and getting no investment to keep them going. God help the green Australian nirvana when these power stations are finally shut down.
And it will make no difference to climate change because the biggest polluters just keep on going.
But, at least we’ll feel all nice and warmy on those cold nights with no power

[Q.]

Who cares about the price.
The rubbish that renewables saved the day is laughable.
There was black, brown & red (& later blue) on the RE website providing the vast majority of our power requirements on the day - all fossil fuels
As far as I remember wind power was non existent that day
Those that bag power stations for going offline for maintenance and then say renewables are therefore
more reliable can’t be serious. The power stations are requiring more maintenance because they are getting older and getting no investment to keep them going. God help the green Australian nirvana when these power stations are finally shut down.
And it will make no difference to climate change because the biggest polluters just keep on going.
But, at least we’ll feel all nice and warmy on those cold nights with no power

What's rubbish is that 2350MW of coal power was unavailable and renewables cop the blame for that. During last Friday's power shortage in Vic, the critical period known as an LOR3 (12PM - 2.5PM) renewables supplied a total of 43.2% of the state's demand.

Coal doesn't make economic sense any more. It was going to cost $400mil to clear Hazelwood worksafe notices + another $1bn to keep Hazelwood going for another 10 years. Investors are exiting coal because it cant compete on price (cannot compete with 7c/kWh) or flexibility. Gas peakers + hydro + renewables + mega batteries will power Australia and provide flexible baseload. Unfortunately we have some catching up to do because of the 6 years of ineptitude/corruption of our Coalition fed government.

[Q.]

Who cares about the price.
The rubbish that renewables saved the day is laughable.
There was black, brown & red (& later blue) on the RE website providing the vast majority of our power requirements on the day - all fossil fuels
As far as I remember wind power was non existent that day
Those that bag power stations for going offline for maintenance and then say renewables are therefore
more reliable can’t be serious. The power stations are requiring more maintenance because they are getting older and getting no investment to keep them going. God help the green Australian nirvana when these power stations are finally shut down.
And it will make no difference to climate change because the biggest polluters just keep on going.
But, at least we’ll feel all nice and warmy on those cold nights with no power

What's rubbish is that 2350MW of coal power was unavailable and renewables cop the blame for that. During last Friday's power shortage in Vic, the critical period known as an LOR3 (12PM - 2.5PM) renewables supplied a total of 43.2% of the state's demand.

Coal doesn't make economic sense any more. It was going to cost $400mil to clear Hazelwood worksafe notices + another $1bn to keep Hazelwood going for another 10 years. Investors are exiting coal because it cant compete on price (cannot compete with 7c/kWh) or flexibility. Gas peakers + hydro + renewables + mega batteries will power Australia and provide flexible baseload. Unfortunately we have some catching up to do because of the 6 years of ineptitude/corruption of our Coalition fed government.

Look at AGL's analysis of Liddell:

[Jimmy_041]

As far as I’m concerned, renewables didn’t cop the blame. People who say renewables are more reliable and shitbag coal for any reason just cop it.
Wind is reliable. No wind - no power. No sun - no power. Coal power maintenance- no power
SA got into trouble because it shut down coal without planning for its replacement. That was lunacy
As I said, the current plants are wearing out and there’s been no new investment because it can’t compete on a level playing field
What is the Government subsidy of the alternative cheaper proposal?
Did I read somewhere that the value of subsidies in 2018 was $20Bn?

[Q.]

As far as I’m concerned, renewables didn’t cop the blame. People who say renewables are more reliable and shitbag coal for any reason just cop it.
Wind is reliable. No wind - no power. No sun - no power. Coal power maintenance- no power
SA got into trouble because it shut down coal without planning for its replacement. That was lunacy
As I said, the current plants are wearing out and there’s been no new investment because it can’t compete on a level playing field
What is the Government subsidy of the alternative cheaper proposal?
Did I read somewhere that the value of subsidies in 2018 was $20Bn?

Coal is dead man. All the big players are exiting -> Gas peakers + hydro + renewables + mega batteries is the future as outlined in the graphic above. Flexible and dispatchable.

The run costs of solar and wind continue to fall, even without subsidies. More will continue to get built (and many are being built foregoing access to subsidies), which means there will be more hours each day with low prices in the spot market and fewer hours where coal generators run and contribute to paying back their construction costs.

All but two of our current coal plants have received subsidies. National tax-based subsidies that encourage fossil fuel production and consumption is $12 billion pa.

[Jimmy_041]

Dead in Australia maybe
http://catallaxyfiles.com/2018/08/11/co ... struction/

Fortunately I have fireplaces in my house to keep warm when the cost of power is too much

[Q.]

Dead in Australia maybe
http://catallaxyfiles.com/2018/08/11/co ... struction/

Fortunately I have fireplaces in my house to keep warm when the cost of power is too much

40% of the 270 are not actually new ones, but expansions of existing generators.

Coal will make your electricity more expensive, renewables will make it cheaper.

[stan]

Dead in Australia maybe
http://catallaxyfiles.com/2018/08/11/co ... struction/

Fortunately I have fireplaces in my house to keep warm when the cost of power is too much

40% of the 270 are not actually new ones, but expansions of existing generators.

Coal will make your electricity more expensive, renewables will make it cheaper.

Except when you need it....$14k per MWhr

[Q.]

Except when you need it....$14k per MWhr

Because 2350MW was made unavailable

[stan]

Except when you need it....$14k per MWhr

Because 2350MW was made unavailable

AGL, Engie and Alinta know there shit. It's all too easy for them.

[stan]

As far as I’m concerned, renewables didn’t cop the blame. People who say renewables are more reliable and shitbag coal for any reason just cop it.
Wind is reliable. No wind - no power. No sun - no power. Coal power maintenance- no power
SA got into trouble because it shut down coal without planning for its replacement. That was lunacy
As I said, the current plants are wearing out and there’s been no new investment because it can’t compete on a level playing field
What is the Government subsidy of the alternative cheaper proposal?
Did I read somewhere that the value of subsidies in 2018 was $20Bn?

Ahh mate I'm sort of with you at the moment but the SA government didn't shut down Northern at Pt Augusta, Alinta made that decision. Probably fair enough too as the coal source was pretty poor.

The State Government was offered the site but didn't want the $2 billion clean up issues plus the poorly managed and maintained power station.

[DOC]

They were offered it for the princely sum of, $1.

[Jimmy_041]

As far as I’m concerned, renewables didn’t cop the blame. People who say renewables are more reliable and shitbag coal for any reason just cop it.
Wind is reliable. No wind - no power. No sun - no power. Coal power maintenance- no power
SA got into trouble because it shut down coal without planning for its replacement. That was lunacy
As I said, the current plants are wearing out and there’s been no new investment because it can’t compete on a level playing field
What is the Government subsidy of the alternative cheaper proposal?
Did I read somewhere that the value of subsidies in 2018 was $20Bn?

Ahh mate I'm sort of with you at the moment but the SA government didn't shut down Northern at Pt Augusta, Alinta made that decision. Probably fair enough too as the coal source was pretty poor.

The State Government was offered the site but didn't want the $2 billion clean up issues plus the poorly managed and maintained power station.

That remediation argument was bollocks. A lie to justify a lie by the government and they got caught out when Alinta called them out. Alinta was asking for a subsidy only. I might add: Weatherill lied when he flatly denied there was ever an offer until he got called out. Here is a good account of what occurred and not from The Advertiser to appease the Murdoch conspiracists: https://indaily.com.au/news/local/2017/ ... -surfaces/
Here is the real reason they wouldn’t do it: https://www.sbs.com.au/news/weatherill- ... -rejection Weatherill gives it to you straight although he throws in some crap that there were no guarantees it would stay open for 3 years. Ummmm, ever heard of a contract with penalty clauses for breach of contract???? But, then again, how can we get a contract if the offer never occurred? And why would they lie about it? Because they ran off and spent $550m on a patch up plan when they could have spent $24m and saved the people of SA around $1Bn!

As for Leigh Creek coal being the problem - another lie by the government. So Australia can easily ship coal all around the world but can’t ship it to Port Augusta???? More lies to cover the lies to cover political dogma at our expense.

[stan]

As far as I’m concerned, renewables didn’t cop the blame. People who say renewables are more reliable and shitbag coal for any reason just cop it.
Wind is reliable. No wind - no power. No sun - no power. Coal power maintenance- no power
SA got into trouble because it shut down coal without planning for its replacement. That was lunacy
As I said, the current plants are wearing out and there’s been no new investment because it can’t compete on a level playing field
What is the Government subsidy of the alternative cheaper proposal?
Did I read somewhere that the value of subsidies in 2018 was $20Bn?

Ahh mate I'm sort of with you at the moment but the SA government didn't shut down Northern at Pt Augusta, Alinta made that decision. Probably fair enough too as the coal source was pretty poor.

The State Government was offered the site but didn't want the $2 billion clean up issues plus the poorly managed and maintained power station.

That remediation argument was bollocks. A lie to justify a lie by the government and they got caught out when Alinta called them out. Alinta was asking for a subsidy only. I might add: Weatherill lied when he flatly denied there was ever an offer until he got called out. Here is a good account of what occurred and not from The Advertiser to appease the Murdoch conspiracists: https://indaily.com.au/news/local/2017/ ... -surfaces/
Here is the real reason they wouldn’t do it: https://www.sbs.com.au/news/weatherill- ... -rejection Weatherill gives it to you straight although he throws in some crap that there were no guarantees it would stay open for 3 years. Ummmm, ever heard of a contract with penalty clauses for breach of contract???? But, then again, how can we get a contract if the offer never occurred? And why would they lie about it? Because they ran off and spent $550m on a patch up plan when they could have spent $24m and saved the people of SA around $1Bn!

As for Leigh Creek coal being the problem - another lie by the government. So Australia can easily ship coal all around the world but can’t ship it to Port Augusta???? More lies to cover the lies to cover political dogma at our expense.

You could be right on a few of your points there mate, I don't know the specific details of the proposed offers. Only the issues with the site and the clean up.

However Leigh Creeks coal is shithouse. 110% can tell you that. Full of impurities and crap and bad bad bad. In saying that you raise a good point about shipping coal around the world so why not SA.

The key is if you wanted to keep Northern running then you should look at Victorian brown coal. Whilst it contains plenty of water, up to about 70% I believe, it's soft and pure brown as pure brown can be lol. But that's null and void as you would need to get it to Pt. Augusta and of course the station is dead.

[DOC]

After seeing Bill Shorten on Insiders this morning, he will romp in at the next election.