"Super" Mining Tax

[Gozu]

"Tony Abbott defends Peter Dutton's shares in BHP":

OPPOSITION health spokesman Peter Dutton reportedly bought shares in BHP Billiton after the Government announced the resources super profits tax, which the coalition argues will ruin the mining sector.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/br ... 5867331136

[smac]

"Tony Abbott defends Peter Dutton's shares in BHP":

OPPOSITION health spokesman Peter Dutton reportedly bought shares in BHP Billiton after the Government announced the resources super profits tax, which the coalition argues will ruin the mining sector.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/br ... 5867331136

Haven't read the article, but I would have thought a lot of people bought mining shares after the Govt destroyed the share price. Sell them off later once the value increases again, makes some sense.

[purch]

"Tony Abbott defends Peter Dutton's shares in BHP":

OPPOSITION health spokesman Peter Dutton reportedly bought shares in BHP Billiton after the Government announced the resources super profits tax, which the coalition argues will ruin the mining sector.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/br ... 5867331136

Haven't read the article, but I would have thought a lot of people bought mining shares after the Govt destroyed the share price. Sell them off later once the value increases again, makes some sense.

Makes sense to me. Never buy when the price is high.

[Leaping Lindner]

So I wonder which way Mr Dutton will vote when the bill comes before the house???

[fish]

So I wonder which way Mr Dutton will vote when the bill comes before the house???

Surely he will abstain due to a conflict of interest.

[purch]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/mining-energy/proposed-tax-regime-forces-oz-minerals-to-shelve-western-copper/story-e6frg9dx-1225868773084

[purch]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/mining-energy/rio-tinto-shelves-billions-in-projects/story-e6frg9df-1225862783233

[purch]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/05/19/2903646.htm

[purch]

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/7258644/fmg-shelves-two-projects-on-super-tax-impost/

[purch]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/business/mining-giant-bhp-billion-warns-on-roxby-downs-expansion/story-e6frede3-1225868541460

[Gozu]

Wow you're not too hysterical. It's called negotiations. Don't get too sucked in by the games the mining industry CEO's are playing in the media via their sycophants.

[Gozu]

"IMF backs resources super profits tax":

THE International Monetary Fund has backed the Rudd Government's proposed resources super profit tax, saying such taxes will help Governments recover from the global financial crisis.

With company tax becoming a less reliable source of government income, resource rent taxes would give mineral-rich countries such as Australia "brighter" prospects of repairing crisis-battered budget balance sheets, the IMF said in a staff paper released on Friday.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/busine ... 5867535939

[Gozu]

"Roger Corbett: front page news one day, vanished the next":

Lesson #837 in how the media won’t cover anything that doesn’t fit the current narrative.

On Monday, Reserve Bank board member Roger Corbett was interviewed by Janine Perrett on her new Perrett Report on the Sky Business Channel (the transcript is available here).

Just over a month ago, Corbett attacked the government’s health reform plans, describing them as “bizarre” and a “formula for disaster”. Corbett’s comments received extensive media coverage, including from The Australian and the ABC.

On Monday, Perrett asked Corbett about his view of the Resource Super Profits Tax. “Is there a danger we could kill the golden goose with the new resources super profit tax?” she asked.

But it was left to coalition attack grub Glenn Milne to show just how low the campaign against the RSPT could go when he used Monday’s Australian to attack Wayne Swan’s wife, Kim, for an investment decision that it would be generous to describe as tangential to the RSPT proposal. Milne’s pretext was that reporting that Peter Dutton had bought shares in BHP after the RSPT announcement was “grubby”, a strange description given Parliament requires MPs to put such transactions on the public record and their coverage by the media is routine.

It was also rich coming from Milne, who reported federal politics for years without revealing his wife worked for Liberal Party polling outfit Crosby Textor. Thankfully, that’s a job Milne has now relinquished, because he is no longer a political journalist, simply one of News Ltd’s stable of anti-Labor hate merchants, whom he once himself mocked as not understanding politics.

Funny how we were all talking a couple of weeks ago about how the government had shied away from real reform in the Henry Review. The hysterical reaction to the RSPT suggests otherwise.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/05/19/rog ... -the-next/

[Gozu]

"Garnaut backs resource super profits tax":

http://afr.com/p/national/garnaut_backs ... 5CPXqobd8K

[purch]

It's called negotiations.

It would be nice if the govt's reps actually understood the policy AND something about the industry before so-called negotiations started. All they've been told is 6% is non-negotiable and neither is the new rate. Some negotiation...

I'm not hysterical about anything, except that I think the govt banking that their predictions of future commodity prices are better than those of the companies' is hysterically funny.

What would be even more hysterically funny is if company policies actually ensured that few of their operations ever got to 6% profit. So much for the $9b then, and resources stay in the ground until an alternate govt gets elected.

[Gozu]

It's called negotiations.

It would be nice if the govt's reps actually understood the policy AND something about the industry before so-called negotiations started. All they've been told is 6% is non-negotiable and neither is the new rate. Some negotiation...

I'm not hysterical about anything, except that I think the govt banking that their predictions of future commodity prices are better than those of the companies' is hysterically funny.

What would be even more hysterically funny is if company policies actually ensured that few of their operations ever got to 6% profit. So much for the $9b then, and resources stay in the ground until an alternate govt gets elected.

Ken Henry and the Treasury know more than enough. The Billionaire CEO's should be grateful the Government are even willing to sit down with them after the stunts they've pulled. They've got form, these are the same pigs that were squealing prior to the last election about how getting rid of WorkChoices would ruin the mining industry. They're either complete morons (unlikely) our flat out liars? You only had to see Clive Palmer's performance on Lateline a couple of weeks ago to realise how morally and ethically bankrupt these guys are.

What I find funny is you swallowing their BS unless of course you're one of their spin doctors. How are the iron ore prices going? China is only going to keep growing. You do realise this will actually provide more incentive for smaller companies to mine? It's going to increase mining and as long as China, India, Japan etc. keep wanting what we've got in the ground the money & our economy will keep powering along. It's now time for the big mining companies to start paying their fair share.

[purch]

You do realise this will actually provide more incentive for smaller companies to mine? It's going to increase mining and as long as China, India, Japan etc. keep wanting what we've got in the ground the money & our economy will keep powering along. It's now time for the big mining companies to start paying their fair share.

I'd really like to hear a logical explanation for this...anything to do with supporting business mediocrity?

Just a few questions...

Why big mining companies Gozu? Do you acknowledge that without a strong mining industry we would have gone into recession during the GFC, and in that sense they our our saviours? Do you wish that we did fair worse? Are you just anti-mining? Does your place of residence have pipes and wires? And why not banks, for example (have you had a look at their historical profit profile as compared to mining companies??). And why should the companies continue to pay royalties to the states if the minerals now belong to ALL Australians? (Note: this is a federal tax). What policies and guarantees are in place to ensure that the extra tax generated in South Australia gets spent in South Australia, or any other state for that matter. I know West Australians, who acknowledge that their living standard is dependant on mining, are very concerned about this.

[Gozu]

I'd really like to hear a logical explanation for this...anything to do with supporting business mediocrity?

Just a few questions...

Why big mining companies Gozu? Do you acknowledge that without a strong mining industry we would have gone into recession during the GFC, and in that sense they our our saviours? Do you wish that we did fair worse? Are you just anti-mining? Does your place of residence have pipes and wires? And why not banks, for example (have you had a look at their historical profit profile as compared to mining companies??). And why should the companies continue to pay royalties to the states if the minerals now belong to ALL Australians? (Note: this is a federal tax). What policies and guarantees are in place to ensure that the extra tax generated in South Australia gets spent in South Australia, or any other state for that matter. I know West Australians, who acknowledge that their living standard is dependant on mining, are very concerned about this.

Hilarious, you could make that argument just about any small business. I assume you're a supporter of the Coles/Woolies duopoly too? Because big mining companies have been making an absolute killing compared to how little tax they have to pay (hence 'Super Profits Tax'). The minerals can only come out the ground once and then they're gone for good so we should get as much as we possibly can for them.

I'd suggest the universally lauded stimulus spending by the Government had a bit more to do with staving off of a recession without undermining the importance of the mining industry. If you want to throw yourself at the feet of the Billionaire CEO's knock yourself out. It's our minerals that have pumped up our economy over the last decade or so not the bloody mining industry.

Why not banks? Because once the stuff is out of the ground it's gone forever, pretty simple stuff. What are you on about with the supposed state v state crap? Oh so that's the line your mob are going to try and run soon is it? How do we know the money will come back to SA (or any other state)? Gimme a break. Fortunately people aren't that stupid. The WA Premier (who also happens to be the only Liberal Premier or Chief Minister in the country) is just playing on the self-interest of a few rednecks over in WA.

I'll just leave you with this said by someone from another forum:

This isn’t radical. Treasury has modelled it. Big international organisations like the IMF and OECD like it. Industry groups like it, the wealth management sector likes it and the mining unions think it makes sense. The only people who don’t like it are a few billionaire miners, the Liberal Party and their spruikers in the media. Who are you going to believe?

So the pitch is, the RSPT lengthens the life of the boom, while spreading the benefits more fairly, taking pressure off other industries and keeping our interest rates and exchange rates at more competitive levels.

[Gozu]

"Miners not pulling their weight: Gillard":

The federal government has opened a new front of attack against miners in the fight over the proposed resource rent tax, saying multinationals such as BHP Billiton and Rio Tinto pay just 13 per cent tax.

Domestic mining companies pay an effective company tax rate of just 17 per cent, Ms Gillard said.

"For the overseas companies, the multinationals, (it's) around 13 per cent.

"This is not a fair share and that's why we're moving to introduce the resources super-profits tax."

Treasurer Wayne Swan says ordinary Australians are taxed about 30 cents in the dollar, which means they are being "short-changed" by the miners.

"What the mining companies won't tell you is they are getting a massive discount already on the company tax they pay because of generous concessions," the treasurer told News Ltd today.

"But the point remains the same. When that tax was introduced 25 years ago the petroleum industry didn't jump up and down and go 'Yipee','Fantastic'."

But it had adjusted and gone on to thrive, she said.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/miner ... -w3fi.html

[purch]

Gozu, before I start, note how I quote specific things that you have written. This is the sign of someone has read carefully and considered what another poster is saying. It's called logic.

I'd suggest the universally lauded stimulus spending by the Government had a bit more to do with staving off of a recession without undermining the importance of the mining industry.

Well that is just a straight out lie. Universally? Are you kidding? As I stated at the beginning of this thread, I do not automatically sit on either side of the political fence. I use my brain. It is obvious that you have a dogmatic, almost religious, passion for the ALP. And yes, I have voted for them in the past too. I just don't see sense in this policy.

It's our minerals that have pumped up our economy over the last decade or so not the bloody mining industry.

You just contradicted your last point. And I do love the way you give life to inanimate objects. It puts a picture in my mind of all that hematite just ridding itself of that silica, making a dash for the coast, and jumping on a ship to China. Full of fantasy you are. More disturbing is the lack of reference to the 100s of thousands of workers (employed by both large and small business) that makes up the "bloody mining industry" as you call it.

What are you on about with the supposed state v state crap? Oh so that's the line your mob are going to try and run soon is it? How do we know the money will come back to SA (or any other state)?

OK, listen carefully. Mining companies are fully aware that the resources they mine are non-renewable (recycling aside). They know this because the competition for high grade resources is intense. An example: 20-30 years ago the average Cu grade mined around the world was well in excess of 1%. Today it sits at ~0.7-0.9% Cu. In 20-30 years it may be as low as 0.5%. Hence companies have been paying large royalties to State and Territory governments for more than 100 years. Royalties on minerals are charged by state and territory governments, as the owners of minerals in the ground, for the right to extract a mineral resource. This is what Western Australia was built on.

My point is that mining companies are already paying government for the privilege of extracting and processing Australia's mineral resources.

So the pitch is, the RSPT lengthens the life of the boom, while spreading the benefits more fairly, taking pressure off other industries and keeping our interest rates and exchange rates at more competitive levels.[/i]

Once again, this would be a non-sustainable tax if it remains as it has been reported.
Commodity prices fall again globally = end of boom. The Australian government is insignificant on the world business stage. It cannot influence supply and demand or commodity prices. Simple as that.