Navy intercepts seventh boat of asylum-seekers in two months

[Psyber]

So you don't think imprisonment is traumatic? How about for children who are imprisoned?
The trauma that a criminal suffers from incarceration has been well documented, yet you doubt that an average family suffers stress from incarceration?

Is it as traumatic as the ongoing threat to life implicit in the previous events?
Also, there is a difference between trauma and the PTSD one can seek compensation for in Australia.

Surely these previous stresses are more likely causes of any PTSD that actually exists than being detained somewhere that is safe while being assessed.
I'm not saying none of them have PTSD but questioning whether the detention is the primary cause.

The DSM-IV definiton of PTSD that the law usually relies on requires there to have been actual injury or a threat to life : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PTSD#Criteria

Criteria
The diagnostic criteria for PTSD, stipulated in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders IV (Text Revision) (DSM-IV-TR), may be summarized as:
A: Exposure to a traumatic event

This must have involved both (a) loss of "physical integrity", or risk of serious injury or death, to self or others, and (b) a response to the event that involved intense fear, horror or helplessness (or in children, the response must involve disorganized or agitated behavior). (The DSM-IV-TR criterion differs substantially from the previous DSM-III-R stressor criterion, which specified the traumatic event should be of a type that would cause "significant symptoms of distress in almost anyone," and that the event was "outside the range of usual human experience."[59])

One could argue that the only potential cause of PTSD in the detention camps is from those who riot, and that they should be removed immediately to a more secure place of detention, for the safety of others waiting to be processed. Failing to do that may be something our government could be sued for, perhaps.

[smithy]

One of the questions to be asked regarding children in detention is what would cause the greater grief, await processing in detention or be removed from your parents into the community until parents applications have been processed.

Some of the stuff that happens at Christmas Island I wouldn't wish upon anyone, let alone a child, but would they prefer to stay there or go to temporary foster parents ?

If they go to foster parents what happens if the parents application is refused ? do they leave their family or go back home ?

Unfortunately boat people are mislead when buying tickets into thinking that it's a quick visa process with B'n'B facilities while you wait. At Christmas Island it certainly isn't that.

Quite possibly the bloke who stamps visa's at Jakarta Airport depending on the price agreed tells a good story too.

In saying that, it's amazing how quickly many of them forget the reasons they fled their homeland and how lucky they are to reach our shores with a chance of a new life.

The processes are explained to them upon arrival and rioting or property damage isn't going to speed up the application.
Behaviour like the riots should NOT be tolerated and any persons guilty of doing so should have their applications terminated immediately to send a message that it's not ok to act like that.

[Q.]

At least they've stopped rioting and are only engaging in self-harm now:

http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/07/25/broadmeadows-asylum-seekers-sew-lips-together-post-pics-on-facebook/

[Dogwatcher]

Whoever is at blame - the immigrants for wanting entry into our nation, or the government for the way in which immigrants are detained - the process is too long. Some of those people have been in there 19 months or more. Is it any wonder they are going nuts?

[Psyber]

Whoever is at blame - the immigrants for wanting entry into our nation, or the government for the way in which immigrants are detained - the process is too long. Some of those people have been in there 19 months or more. Is it any wonder they are going nuts?

I agree there, the delay initially encourages hope then breeds frustration if that raised hope is not fulfilled.
Both a clear and declared policy, so expectations are not raised unreasonably, and a faster decision process are desirable.

The self-harm issue is another can of worms.
At the ends of the spectrum, sometimes it is primarily intended to cause death, and sometimes it is primarily meant to affect others' behaviour.
The severely depressed usually act in private and choose effective methods - guns, poisons, hanging, electrocution - death is usual.
Others act in public and use dramatic but less reliable means - overdoses of medications, and wrist slashing for example - death is uncommon.
Both types of action indicate that psychopathology exists, but different types thereof.
The gestures - sometimes called Parasuicide in the literature - are usually associated more with personality disorder rather than depression.

In SA quite a few years ago there was a case where a woman took an overdose of 20 paracetamol tablets in front of family after an argument.
At the time protocols said this was not a fatal dose, and she was happy next day to have recovered unharmed overnight, and went home cheerfully.
But sadly, some weeks later her Liver began to fail and she died.
(The protocols were revised after that case - it was the first on record here of death after so low a dose.)

[Dogwatcher]

Thanks for your highly informed post, Psyb. Appreciated.
Far removed from the hyperbole and political hub bub which usually accompanies any debate on this topic.

[Q.]

Wouldn't think personality disorder is really applicable in this case. Studies have shown that suicide and self-harm is directly linked to the "extremity of detention and the detention environment".

[smithy]

Whoever is at blame - the immigrants for wanting entry into our nation, or the government for the way in which immigrants are detained - the process is too long. Some of those people have been in there 19 months or more. Is it any wonder they are going nuts?

I mentioned before that "asylum seekers" are mis-informed about the visa and detention process.
Throwing away your identity slows the security measures needed to identify whether someone is safe to enter the country.
The Persian calendar is somewhat different to ours creating more difficulty with date of births.

It is rare for someone to be in detention for longer than 12-13 months, and most during that time would be moved to more low key centres.

I'm sure you would rather these measures are put in place stringently rather than letting in people with bad criminal histories.

[Psyber]

Wouldn't think personality disorder is really applicable in this case. Studies have shown that suicide and self-harm is directly linked to the "extremity of detention and the detention environment".

People who have grown up in traumatic backgrounds are more at risk of having developed a personality disorder during childhood.
These people are more likely to have dissatisfaction with their lives and to choose to emigrate even if they don't have real reasons.
There was literature about this published in the 1950s and 1960s in mainstream journals after the big waves of immigration in the post WW2 years.
People with personality disorders are also likely to have unrealistic expectations, and to react to not getting what they want in less normal ways.

Detention Studies is a narrow field of literature, which I have not seen much of in mainstream literature.

[Q.]

Been many articles written in the past decade. Can you access Dudley, 2003 (Australasian Psychiatry)? A good read.

[Psyber]

Been many articles written in the past decade. Can you access Dudley, 2003 (Australasian Psychiatry)? A good read.

I probably saw it at the time, but I'll see if I can access it and refresh.
It would be logical to assume that the length of detention, and the situation of detention, would both have effects on manifesting symptoms.
That would be so regardless of the existence or not of any pre-existing psychopathology, whether from older traumas, or from any pre-existing genetic predisposition - as in Bipolar Disorder.

PS: No I can't get access to it but found this recent statement:

27 January 2010 The Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Psychiatrists today supported comments by Australian of the Year Professor Patrick McGorry that immigration detention centres contribute to mental health problems amongst asylum seekers.

Professor Louise Newman, President of The Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Psychiatrists and a psychiatrist involved in treating asylum seekers, said, "there is clear research evidence that detaining vulnerable groups, who have experienced torture, trauma and loss in remote facilities is a recipe for serious mental health problems. Remote facilities such as Christmas Island are particularly concerning”.

Previous research has found high rates of depression, post-traumatic stress disorder and mental disorder in asylum seekers, including detained children. Professor Newman noted that the rates of mental health problems are linked to time spent in detention. "It is very worrying that processing claims are increasing on Christmas Island and that individuals and families who have experienced trauma are being kept there for longer”.

Note this does not say detention is, in itself, the prime or original aetiological cause of the psychopathology that is referred to - just that it effects manifestation rates.
Again that is logical - add stress to stress -> get more symptoms - the underlined bit (my underlining) is what I was referring to in my earlier post.
(Louise Newman has since resigned as President of the RANZCP after some conflict with other Board members - the nature of which is still not public.)

[Q.]

http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/07/26/push-and-pull-how-can-we-tell-if-the-malaysian-deal-works/

It’s not clear whether the Government’s announcement on 7 May about a deal on asylum seekers had a significant deterrent effect on boat arrivals. What is clear is that there has been a huge fall in the number of arrivals this year, even before 7 May.

The dirty secret of the asylum seeker debate is that something is stopping the boats, but it’s most likely the shift in asylum seeker sources away from the Asian region toward Europe over the course of 2010.

Having spent so long insisting “push” factors were the key to the rise in asylum seekers heading for Australia, the deal with Malaysia finally announced yesterday looks awfully like an acknowledgement that “pull” factors are critical. The test will only really come when there’s another surge in asylum seekers in our region, courtesy of civil war or, as recent history suggests is more likely, people like us invading other countries.

The deal, of course, doesn’t apply to the much larger number of asylum seekers who arrive by air, who are the subject of a strange conspiracy of silence across all disputants in the debate; the official line for all sides is that the real issue is stopping dangerous maritime journeys, but it’s odd how the “queue jumper” rhetoric seems to vanish despite the fact that people arriving by boat have a far higher success rate in applying for humanitarian visas than those arriving by air. Plainly, people coming through airports don’t push the buttons of hostility in Australians that boat arrivals do, despite boat arrivals being subjected to far heavier vetting and screening than people going through Customs on a tourism visa.

[Q.]

Skyrocketing self-harm rates spark detention inquest

The Commonwealth ombudsman has launched an inquiry into skyrocketing rates of suicide and self-harm attempts in immigration detention centres.

New figures reveal an average of three threatened or actual self-harm attempts across the detention centre network per day.

In just one week earlier this month, there were 50 such incidents.

Commonwealth ombudsman Allan Asher launched his official inquiry after seeing the evidence with his own eyes.

"I spent a week on Christmas Island myself at the end of June and there were 30 incidents in just that week," he said.

"We then heard that in the first week in July there were 50 in all the places of detention and it just tells us there is something wrong and it needs to be looked at."

Louise Newman, an independent advisor to the Government on mental health in immigration detention centres, is backing the inquiry.

"I think this is very appropriate, much needed. We're at a crucial time now within the detention system," she said.

The ombudsman has obtained figures from the Immigration Department showing there were 1,132 instances of actual or threatened self-harm across the immigration detention network over the last 12 months.

[scoob]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-14369249

Hopefully the refugees have a good wifi connection

[smithy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-14369249

Hopefully the refugees have a good wifi connection

That's an interesting article scoob.

I'm not sure if putting footage like that on youtube is professional, it's certainly an unorthodox tactic.
It is true though that "smugglers" put together a package video of Australia being a "meet n greet" "please come in" country as soon as your boat is discovered.

[scoob]

http://www.news.com.au/national/high-co ... 6126528979

A revisit of the governments Malaysian solution looks necessary...

[Psyber]

http://www.news.com.au/national/high-court-rules-malaysian-swap-deal-unlawful/story-e6frfkvr-1226126528979
A revisit of the governments Malaysian solution looks necessary...

The boats will be leaving port now...

[bulldogproud2]

http://www.news.com.au/national/high-court-rules-malaysian-swap-deal-unlawful/story-e6frfkvr-1226126528979
A revisit of the governments Malaysian solution looks necessary...

The boats will be leaving port now...

We really do overreact about the number of asylum seekers coming to Australia. To read some comments it would look as if Australia was seen as THE desirable location for asylum seekers to come to. Out of the 44 million displaced people in the world how many come to Australia by boat? In all but a few years, less than 2 000 asylum seekers per year have come to Australia by boat. Australia receives approximately 2.2% of global asylum seeker applications and the majority of these are not from people coming from boat, but by air. Additionally, between 70% and 97% of those coming by boat applying for refugee status in Australia are successful whilst less than half of those coming by air are proven to be genuine refugees. I would encourage anyone interested in the asylum seeker debate to read the following publication from the Australian Parliament:

http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/bn/s ... mFacts.pdf

Cheers

[dedja]

don't let the facts get in the way of a good story, or political scare campaign ...

[Psyber]

I thought the main issue was the people who run the boats encouraging people to risk their lives.
What they seem to be selling is the idea that getting here be any means would mean they get to stay.