Copenhagen Climate Change Conference = The League of Nations

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Re: Copenhagen Climate Change Conference = The League of Nations

Postby Psyber » Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:32 pm

Leaping Lindner wrote:
Jimmy_041 wrote:and by people comparing the argument with the "world is flat" argument
I do not deny mankind is injuring the globe with the pollution it creates and we need to do something about it, but what caused natural disasters before all of these emissions?
And I certainly do not think that Rudd's CPRS plan was the be all and end all that will save the world
So what? Just do nothing and hope for the best? What's the worse thing that could happen if we clean up our act? Cleaner air, fresher water, less pollution......
I don't think anybody on either side of the debate about climate change being caused by man or not has suggested "doing nothing" about pollution.
Most seem to support the idea of "cleaning up our act" in principle, regardless of whether man's activities are causing current climate change.

My own last suggestion in this thread was that we actively did something that required and supported industry in cleaning up their act and hence ours.
Introducing a pollution tax that could be passed on to the end user, and thus did not even passively pressure the manufacturing and energy industries was a token.
If they couldn't pass it on, but were offered grants to support changing their technology, we might be going somewhere.
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Re: Copenhagen Climate Change Conference = The League of Nations

Postby Gozu » Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:05 pm

"Think tanks, oil money and black ops":

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2828195.htm
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Re: Copenhagen Climate Change Conference = The League of Nations

Postby Gozu » Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:21 pm

"Manufacturing a scientific scandal":

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2829295.htm
"The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to keep the man from touching the equipment" – Warren Bennis
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Re: Copenhagen Climate Change Conference = The League of Nations

Postby Gozu » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:50 pm

"The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to keep the man from touching the equipment" – Warren Bennis
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Re: Copenhagen Climate Change Conference = The League of Nations

Postby Jimmy_041 » Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:47 pm

Gozu wrote:"Who's defending science?"

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2830890.htm


Thanks Gozu - that piece led me to this one on how ineffectual the PM really is:

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2828708.htm

and this one - no doubt, Media Mike has coached his student well:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/26/2830726.htm?site=thedrum
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Re: Copenhagen Climate Change Conference = The League of Nations

Postby fish » Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:08 pm

Thanks Gozu very interesting reading. Some of the comments were quite funny too!

Keep 'em coming...
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Re: Copenhagen Climate Change Conference = The League of Nations

Postby Gozu » Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:21 pm

Thanks they're a good read but I think that was the final one in a five part series.

I agree some of the comments were let's just say 'illuminating' ;)
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Re: Copenhagen Climate Change Conference = The League of Nations

Postby Psyber » Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:14 pm

I came across this Emissions Flow Chart: http://cait.wri.org/figures/World-FlowChart.jpg
It is too large to display on this page as an image apparently so just use the link.
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Re: Copenhagen Climate Change Conference = The League of Nations

Postby Gozu » Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:16 am

"Are you now or have you ever been a climate scientist?":

"And last month the Utah House of Representatives passed a resolution rejecting climate science. One supporter of the Bill said “environmentalists were part of a vast conspiracy to destroy the American way of life and control world population through forced sterilisation and abortion”.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/03/08/are ... scientist/
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Re: Copenhagen Climate Change Conference = The League of Nations

Postby The Apostle » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:58 am

Gozu wrote:"Are you now or have you ever been a climate scientist?":

"And last month the Utah House of Representatives passed a resolution rejecting climate science. One supporter of the Bill said “environmentalists were part of a vast conspiracy to destroy the American way of life and control world population through forced sterilisation and abortion”.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/03/08/are ... scientist/

WTF!
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Re: Copenhagen Climate Change Conference = The League of Nations

Postby Jimmy_041 » Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:07 am

Those people from Utah - they've always had their finger on the pulse
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Re: Copenhagen Climate Change Conference = The League of Nations

Postby Gozu » Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:41 pm

Good article, "Climate debate: Opinion vs Evidence":

"It must be of concern that the current Leader of the Opposition has publicly dismissed climate science and instead cosily chats with a visiting British aristocrat who is a serial fabricator — an individual who has publicly misrepresented himself as a member of the House of Lords when he is not; who claims to have cured influenza as well as AIDS; who claims to have won the Falkland War by means of biological weapons; who accuses NASA of blowing up their own research satellites; and whose latest pseudo-mathematical pronouncements about climate change are at odds with past ice age cycles."

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2842091.htm
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Re: Copenhagen Climate Change Conference = The League of Nations

Postby Gozu » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:33 pm

I thought some might like to read this piece from Thursday's Crikey newsletter/email.

Maurice Newman’s pudding tastes a little off

by Bernard Keane

“The proof of the pudding,” said Maurice Newman to ABC staff yesterday, “is in the eating.” If nothing else, Newman’s instinctive grasp of cliché shows he’s in the right business.

Newman has an outstanding business background and he’s been a pretty good ABC board member and chairman. His resignation over board leaks in 2004 commendably shone a light on the iniquity of a staff representative holding a position on the ABC board, prompting the Howard government to finally getting around to removing it.

But his comments yesterday about media coverage of climate change were grubby and contemptible.

Let’s boil his claims down to their essence: he compared climate science with the spivs and shonks of the 1980s, the corporates house of cards such as Enron in the 1990s, and the financial chicanery that prompted the GFC. Journalists failed to spot those until too late, he told ABC staff, and a similar thing is happening on climate change. He thus implicitly compares climate scientists with frauds and criminals.

It’s no wonder climate scientists get hate mail and death threats when public figures of standing like Newman equate them with Christopher Skase and Bernie Madoff.

But if the proof of the pudding is indeed in the eating, Mr Newman, let’s see what fare your corporation has served up. Because this is the other fiction Newman is perpetuating — the idea that somehow climate sceptics and denialists don’t get a run in the media. Chris Monckton — conspiracy theorist and serial fantasist — got extensive and frequently uncritical coverage from the ABC during his recent visit — radio interviews locally and nationally, online coverage, a 7.30 Report piece, ABC-hosted debates. Indeed, the ABC gave far more coverage to Monckton than any other single outlet. And all for a man who is taking seriously only by the extreme right in his homeland.

Compare and contrast: James Hansen is currently in Australia. Hansen is probably the best-known climate scientist on the planet, but you wouldn’t know he was here from the ABC, which, a Phillip Adams interview last week excepted, has barely mentioned his presence. The bald figures tell the story: as of today, Monckton has been discussed on the ABC 161 times this year, while Hansen has only been mentioned nine times.

Indeed, The Australian has given Hansen more coverage than the ABC, because of his support for nuclear power.

In fact, you’re as likely to see Hansen being savaged by climate denialists on the ABC’s comments boards as you are to hear from or about him.

I asked the ABC about the disparity in coverage. The response from the ABC’s News Kate Torney was, in full:

"ABC News stands by the accuracy, the breadth, the depth, the balance and the fairness of its coverage of climate change. For many years, ABC News has led the way in covering all aspects of this important issue in its news bulletins and in its longer-form current affairs programs, and our coverage has been recognised, among other things, through Walkley awards.

The various elements of that coverage, whether the announcement of government policy, the exploration of the science itself or the various public pronouncements or campaigns by advocates for change or critics of the process, have been accorded the coverage they deserve based on newsworthiness. ABC News has never been influenced or advised to change its coverage of this issue in any way by ABC management or the Board. Our coverage has always been determined by following the ABC’s fundamental editorial policies and will continue in the same way."

Newman is a stereotypical climate denialist — wealthy, white, male, conservative. Like nearly all other climate denialists, from the editors of The Australian and conservative bloggers right down to the angry old men penning poisonous emails from their Sunshine Coast dens, he will never see the true consequences of climate change. And like other denialists, he will pay little if any of the cost of actually doing something about it. These people have no stake in either climate change or action to prevent it.

The climate change “debate” is a parlour game for them, something to bait environmentalists and “the Left” about. At least the rentseekers who corrupted the CPRS with their alarmism and demands for handouts were motivated by self-interest. For most denialists, they have no motivation other than to continue the culture wars.

The moral equation here is straight forward. To the extent that climate denialists — whether powerful media figures, or crank retirees with a chip on their shoulder and too much time on their hands — delay action on climate change, they bear responsibility for some of the future costs of it, including the cost in human life. It shouldn’t be a parlour game for smug conservatives such as Newman.
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Re: Copenhagen Climate Change Conference = The League of Nations

Postby Gozu » Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:35 pm

"McGauran: Beware the teddy bears stalking the CSIRO":

http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/03/17/mcg ... the-csiro/
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Re: Copenhagen Climate Change Conference = The League of Nations

Postby redden whites » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:10 pm

How many times to I have to say it?????? :roll: .It won't happen.He will send down other son to save us just in time .He is in control the whole time and we will be saved at the appropriate time :D ......................... heathens :roll:
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Re: Copenhagen Climate Change Conference = The League of Nations

Postby Gozu » Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:01 pm

"Climategate scientists cleared of manipulating data. Hello? Anyone listening? Hello?":

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/rooted/2010/ ... ing-hello/
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Re: Copenhagen Climate Change Conference = The League of Nations

Postby Psyber » Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:56 pm

Gozu wrote:"Climategate scientists cleared of manipulating data. Hello? Anyone listening? Hello?":
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/rooted/2010/ ... ing-hello/
Two comments:
1. I wouldn't say that was absolute proof it didn't happen - it may amount to a "not proven" - but time will no doubt tell.
It doesn't make much difference to the debate about whether climate change is anthropogenic in origin, or not, anyway.

2. They also said this:
but they sharply condemned the unit for witholding information requested by outsiders under Britain’s freedom of information laws.
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Re: Copenhagen Climate Change Conference = The League of Nations

Postby Gozu » Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:18 pm

"Billionaire oilman David Koch likes to joke that Koch Industries is “the biggest company you've never heard of.” But the nearly $50 million that David Koch and his brother Charles have quietly funneled to climate-denial front groups that are working to delay policies and regulations aimed at stopping global warming is no joking matter."

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/campaigns ... industries
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Re: Copenhagen Climate Change Conference = The League of Nations

Postby Psyber » Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:48 pm

Gozu wrote:"Billionaire oilman David Koch likes to joke that Koch Industries is “the biggest company you've never heard of.” But the nearly $50 million that David Koch and his brother Charles have quietly funneled to climate-denial front groups that are working to delay policies and regulations aimed at stopping global warming is no joking matter."

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/campaigns ... industries
Have any government agencies anywhere in the world looked into it to check whether it is really so?
It should be checked independently, and something done about it if it is true.
We should also be watching out for those waving the "climate change is anthropogenic" banner vigorously for personal profit.
There may be vested interests on both sides of the debate
[ And no, I'm not saying one justifies the other - I disapprove of both.]
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Re: Copenhagen Climate Change Conference = The League of Nations

Postby fish » Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:56 pm

Gozu wrote:"Climategate scientists cleared of manipulating data. Hello? Anyone listening? Hello?":

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/rooted/2010/ ... ing-hello/

Looks like the "climategate" scandal was all a huge beatup by the deniers.

Maybe we should start calling it climategate-gate. :lol:
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