John Howard ..Friend Of The Aboriginals

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Re: John Howard ..Friend Of The Aboriginals

Postby am Bays » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:26 pm

Wedgie wrote:I still can't believe he's been allowed to implement a racist policy in the NT when I see much worse parents in lower socio economic areas in Adelaide in the far south and far north.


Been to Papunya, Wadeye, Ntaria, Angurugu and Numbulwar Wedgie???

Know any parents in North and South of Adelaide who buy their kids gerry cans or petrol to keep them quiet???

Not saying those from the lower socio-economic demograhic in Adelaide are perfect parents and that some should have some sort of intervention akin to what is happening in the remote parts of the NT but trust me having lived up there and ealt with aboriginal issues in my professional career something had to happen.

the scale of child abuse both physical, mental, nutritional and sexual to some kids in the outback of the NT is mind-boggling
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Re: John Howard ..Friend Of The Aboriginals

Postby Wedgie » Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:55 pm

Psyber wrote:However, I think our ancestors who created the "stolen" generation were often misguided not malicious, and at the time thought they were rescuing them from neglect and early death. In some cases they may even have been right - I couldn't guess at a percentage. The facts have been obscured as both sides of the argument scrabble to distort reality for political ends.

Hitler was misguided too. :roll:
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Re: John Howard ..Friend Of The Aboriginals

Postby Psyber » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:06 pm

Wedgie wrote:
Psyber wrote:However, I think our ancestors who created the "stolen" generation were often misguided not malicious, and at the time thought they were rescuing them from neglect and early death. In some cases they may even have been right - I couldn't guess at a percentage. The facts have been obscured as both sides of the argument scrabble to distort reality for political ends.

Hitler was misguided too. :roll:

No, Hitler had a deliberate plan of genocide for certain members of the community he chose to make scapegoats of for his own reasons. :shock: :roll:

I knew some aboriginal youngsters who had been successfully adopted into non-aboriginal families back in that era, and had good relationships with their adoptive parents. One of them was the younger sister of one of my older sister's school friends and I saw her often. A couple I met had later visited their homelands.

Sure there were also those taken out of religious bigotry too, to give them "a good Christian upbringing", and some of those adoptions were disastrous. Some of it may have been stupid in hindsight, but mostly it was not done with evil intent. Some may have died of Rheumatic Fever or Nephritis had they not been removed. Some may have been removed for evil intent - for example, by paedophiles or those acquiring servants - but usually the authorities then were naive rather than condoning of that.

To save the kids of Wadeye etc. now, we may find some may have to be removed from that environment too, just as they are from neglectful or drunken or drug-abusing parents in our cities. That is not racism, it is legitimate child protection.

Rutter, following up John Bowlby's work on loss and maternal deprivation, pointed out that it is not who or what you lose, but what you have left that counts, but it is true that a transition of care rather than an abrupt dislocation is important. Unfortunately that work was done after all this had already happened.
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Re: John Howard ..Friend Of The Aboriginals

Postby redandblack » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:44 am

Psyber, apart from being a financial genius, you could also be (mistakenly, I'm sure) a member of National Action or something similar.
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Re: John Howard ..Friend Of The Aboriginals

Postby Dogwatcher » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:10 am

Ouch, I'm not sure that's a very fair thing to say R&B.
Maybe he's a right winger, but National Action? Big call mate.
Be careful when making those sort of statements - offensive to some.
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Re: John Howard ..Friend Of The Aboriginals

Postby redandblack » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:17 am

Dogwatcher wrote:Ouch, I'm not sure that's a very fair thing to say R&B.
Maybe he's a right winger, but National Action? Big call mate.
Be careful when making those sort of statements - offensive to some.


Point taken, DW, but I wasn't meaning to suggest that he was, merely that some of the points he has put up on this thread sound very much like the sort of stuff they would espouse.

I meant that some might think he was, but I didn't phrase it well, so I apologise to Psyber for the misconception. I should have said "mistakenly taken as".
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Re: John Howard ..Friend Of The Aboriginals

Postby BIG SEXY » Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:48 pm

Wedgie wrote:I've voted Liberal and for John Howard my entire life.
But his views on immigration and aborginals is disgusting to say the least.
I still can't believe he's been allowed to implement a racist policy in the NT when I see much worse parents in lower socio economic areas in Adelaide in the far south and far north.
Anyone who agrees with his policies are either racist or ignorant. But he's smart as that's where the votes are at.


there are plenty of anglo families who treat their kids worse but the per capita % in aboriginal lands and communities is ridiculous, hence howard implementing it in aboriginal communities and not white. doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.
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Re: John Howard ..Friend Of The Aboriginals

Postby Psyber » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:56 pm

crushinator wrote:
Wedgie wrote:I've voted Liberal and for John Howard my entire life.
But his views on immigration and aborginals is disgusting to say the least.
I still can't believe he's been allowed to implement a racist policy in the NT when I see much worse parents in lower socio economic areas in Adelaide in the far south and far north.
Anyone who agrees with his policies are either racist or ignorant. But he's smart as that's where the votes are at.


there are plenty of anglo families who treat their kids worse but the per capita % in aboriginal lands and communities is ridiculous, hence howard implementing it in aboriginal communities and not white. doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

Aboriginal welfare ahas been neglected because once it was realised the wrong thing had been done in the past it became politically incorrect for non-aboriginals to be allowed to do anything. So aboriginal organisations were set up and funded, but they were run by power groups who were eventually revealed as feathering their own nests rather than looking after their own people - some even were charged with abusing members of their own people.

So, something had to be done, PC or not.
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Re: John Howard ..Friend Of The Aboriginals

Postby Psyber » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:03 pm

redandblack wrote:Psyber, apart from being a financial genius, you could also be (mistakenly, I'm sure) a member of National Action or something similar.

Would I criticise Hitler as above if I supported National Action?? :lol:

Remember the NAZIs were a "National Socialist Workers' Party" - right wing [i.e.authoritarian] socialists. I am a left wing [democratic] conservative. [Note the small c.]

"Right" means authoritarian, "Left" means non-authoritarian, not Conservative and Socialist respectively which is a recent misconception and misuse. [Perhaps the authoritarian Socialists of the old Communist Party have been trying to obscure their intent, by introducing this misuse of the language.]
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