Russell Ebert, Barry Robran, Paul Bagshaw?

[am Bays]

Is Dick Jones a Torrens supporter????

[GWW]

Is Dick Jones a Torrens supporter????

I'd say he was TM, what are you referring to?

[am Bays]

Is Dick Jones a Torrens supporter????

I'd say he was TM, what are you referring to?

Well if he thought Hank was good, he wouldn't have dragged him......

Thus a career ended

[Wedgie]

Never saw Robran or Bagshaw play, and Ebert only toward the end ... My old man is a longtime SANFL follower though and he insists Robran is the best footballer he's ever seen, also rates Ebert and Head well above Bagshaw.

Shouldn't be any bias there either as he is a Norwood fan, but has (and still does) always told me stories of how unbelievably good Robran was.

My dad would prob be a similar age CP. He also says that Robran is the best hes seen, followed by Ebert. He also ranked Head right up there, which is interesting because he generally isn't rated that highly by the broader SANFL community. From what i've been told, Head had unbelievable skills, particularly the ability to evade opposition players. My impression though is that most West Torrens supporters probably rank Bob Hank as their club's best ever player.

Reading the Bob Hank book I get the impression that Lindsay Head was the more brilliant of the 2.

[GWW]

Lets face it anyone who ever heard Dick Jones speak (i remember him giving comments about SANFL footy on the radio back in the early/mid 80's) would realise that he didn't have all his marbles

[JK]

I think it also depends on how an individual rates their footballers, many will overlook qualities like evasive skills or foot-passing for key position attributes like strong marking or hardball gets.

Many I've spoken to about the players of previous generations labelled Lindsay Head the best skilled by foot they had seen, yet he seemed to lose points with these people as they deemed him a receiver ... I've heard similar remarks (although not quite to the same extent) about Bagshaw.

It's always going to be an each to their own thing, but I'd think Robran in most circles is considered the greatest of our comp, yet funnily enough, noone (in ANY major league) has a record as imposing as Ken Farmer.

[Adelaide Hawk]

I think it also depends on how an individual rates their footballers, many will overlook qualities like evasive skills or foot-passing for key position attributes like strong marking or hardball gets.

Many I've spoken to about the players of previous generations labelled Lindsay Head the best skilled by foot they had seen, yet he seemed to lose points with these people as they deemed him a receiver ... I've heard similar remarks (although not quite to the same extent) about Bagshaw.

It's always going to be an each to their own thing, but I'd think Robran in most circles is considered the greatest of our comp, yet funnily enough, noone (in ANY major league) has a record as imposing as Ken Farmer.

CP, your assessment of how people view Lindsay Head sounds very similar to how many would view Phil Gallagher. Gags had superb evasive and foot skills, but had his detractors because he never played the game in a physical manner. My answer to that is Gags never had to play in a physical manner, his skills more than made up for it.

As for nobody having a record as imposing as Ken Farmer, do yourself a favour and look up Peter Hudson's record one day. Over 2,100 goals in a career that was disrupted in his prime with serious knee injuries. Where Farmer stands alone is kicking 100 goals in a season on 11 consecutive occasions.

[JK]

I think it also depends on how an individual rates their footballers, many will overlook qualities like evasive skills or foot-passing for key position attributes like strong marking or hardball gets.

Many I've spoken to about the players of previous generations labelled Lindsay Head the best skilled by foot they had seen, yet he seemed to lose points with these people as they deemed him a receiver ... I've heard similar remarks (although not quite to the same extent) about Bagshaw.

It's always going to be an each to their own thing, but I'd think Robran in most circles is considered the greatest of our comp, yet funnily enough, noone (in ANY major league) has a record as imposing as Ken Farmer.

CP, your assessment of how people view Lindsay Head sounds very similar to how many would view Phil Gallagher. Gags had superb evasive and foot skills, but had his detractors because he never played the game in a physical manner. My answer to that is Gags never had to play in a physical manner, his skills more than made up for it.

As for nobody having a record as imposing as Ken Farmer, do yourself a favour and look up Peter Hudson's record one day. Over 2,100 goals in a career that was disrupted in his prime with serious knee injuries. Where Farmer stands alone is kicking 100 goals in a season on 11 consecutive occasions.

AH .. Not disagreeing with your answer there, in my younger years I failed to appreciate that but I now firmly believe there are roles that need to be filled in every team, and certain players fill them better than others. (Personally though I generally rate players more highly when there's a physical element, but hey thats just me)

As for Ken Farmer, the 100 goals in 11 consecutive seasons is the record to which I was referring.

[Aerie]

I'm not sure you can separate Bob Hank and Lindsay Head. My old man's favourite player was Head and Grandpa's was Hank. Both had amazing skills, won premierships, best and fairests etc. Hank was known for his bruising of chests with his passes and Head for turning the game into an art form. Both would rate in the top bracket of the best Australian footballers of all time.

[Leaping Lindner]

I'm not sure you can separate Bob Hank and Lindsay Head. My old man's favourite player was Head and Grandpa's was Hank. Both had amazing skills, won premierships, best and fairests etc. Hank was known for his bruising of chests with his passes and Head for turning the game into an art form. Both would rate in the top bracket of the best Australian footballers of all time.

In the 70's my dad had three friends (all Torrens' supporters and all older than him) who all rated Hank as a better player. Whilst by no means dismissing their opinion I use to wonder even back then if it was an age thing.
You know what I mean "So and so is a good player but back in my day there was this player......" Hell! I do that now!
Basing my opinions on what I've heard and read both were amazing players but quite different in playing styles.

[GWW]

The Head/Hank comparison reminds me a bit of the Aish/McIntosh one. I wouldn't call Aish soft but he was mainly known for his skills, and whilst McIntosh had good skills, it was his toughness that he was most known for. From what i can tell, most Legs supporters rate McIntosh slightly higher, although i personally as an opposition supporter, always thought Aish was a better footballer.

[Adelaide Hawk]

The Head/Hank comparison reminds me a bit of the Aish/McIntosh one. I wouldn't call Aish soft but he was mainly known for his skills, and whilst McIntosh had good skills, it was his toughness that he was most known for. From what i can tell, most Legs supporters rate McIntosh slightly higher, although i personally as an opposition supporter, always thought Aish was a better footballer.

I would have thought Aish would get the tick there. Certainly a lot of Norwood people I know would choose Aish. When Aish was at his absolute best, not too many players in the history of the game could play football any better. The only other Norwood player who could turn in a better performance at his best was Phil Carman. As for being "soft", Aish didn't have to start wearig that ridiculous helmet because he was soft. He was forever being belted by opposition players when he had his head over the ball.

[Wedgie]

Aish was definately the more brilliant but I'd pick Macca in my side first any day of the week.

[am Bays]

Finally doing my research on Robran by watching him in the 73 GF, I've just seen Cornes fly over the top and outmark him, I'm sold, Cornes easily better than Robran

Off to check the real estate guide so I can move house before Punky burns this one down.....

[Adelaide Hawk]

Finally doing my research on Robran by watching him in the 73 GF, I've just seen Cornes fly over the top and outmark him, I'm sold, Cornes easily better than Robran

Off to check the real estate guide so I can move house before Punky burns this one down.....

Is this one of those "trolls" Wedgie was warning us about?

[am Bays]

Well the 73 GF isn't he best DVD to get a picture of how well Robran was as he had a relatively quiet one, like the other "stars" in that game Marker, Cornes, Phillis, Schache, von Bertoch etc.

Only real star to have a blinder that day was Bob Hammond who shut out Fred Phillis (did he ever play well in the big one???), Kerry Hamilton played well and the young kid Carey looks like he could play a bit, maybe a bit of future for him.

What did strike me about Robran was that what he did do he did well with respect to his hands and his delivery. In a relatively high pressure game for that era, he skills stood out and in many ways he appeared to be ahead of his time with respect to the play on game of run and carry the ball as opposed to the 60s and 70s kick and catch style. The other thing that struck me about Robran was the amount of time he seemed to have when he had the ball, the game seemed to go temporarily into slow motion, another hallmark of great players, the amount time and space they seem to create for themselves.

However it must be said thanks to the Oatey/Sturt influence I believe SA footballers were ahead of the game with repsect to the modern play on handball influence compared to the long kicking style of the Hafey Victorian era that was in vogue with Richmond. It irks me how Victorians go on about the Len Smith influence on the modern game with respect to handball, when oatey had it perfected in SA while the Vics were still experimenting with it, not until after the 1970 "handball, handball, handball, VFL Grand Final did Victorians embrace handball as an attacking weapon....

In short in even in a relatively poor game by his standards you can see Robran was ahead of his time and was arguably the one player you, with Marker and Cornes to a much lesser extent, could time warp into the modern era of Australian Football

[Adelaide Hawk]

Well the 73 GF isn't he best DVD to get a picture of how well Robran was as he had a relatively quiet one, like the other "stars" in that game Marker, Cornes, Phillis, Schache, von Bertoch etc.

Only real star to have a blinder that day was Bob Hammond who shut out Fred Phillis (did he ever play well in the big one???), Kerry Hamilton played well and the young kid Carey looks like he could play a bit, maybe a bit of future for him.

It irks me how Victorians go on about the Len Smith influence on the modern game with respect to handball, when oatey had it perfected in SA while the Vics were still experimenting with it, not until after the 1970 "handball, handball, handball, VFL Grand Final did Victorians embrace handball as an attacking weapon....

There is an old saying in football. Champion players get you into Grand Finals, the average players win them for you. Whereas there are exceptons to that rule (Davies 1976 etc), there is a lot of truth in it. Many champion players have performed well below par in Grand Finals. With Robran though, he WAS B.O.G. in the 1971 & 1972 GFs. so 2 out of 3 wasn't bad

As for the Victorians, you have to humour them at times. They never knew anything about footy outside their own state, so when Len Smith introduced the handball style, they thought it was an inovation. Most Victorian supporters' football education is lacking through no fault of their own.

When I used to travel to Melbourne in the 1980s, my friends over there knew nothing about SANFL footy. The only non-VFL player they knew about was Garry McIntosh. Sad, but true.

[mal]

Best players Ive seen represent each club

CD PLATTEN
GL HART
NA ROBRAN
NW CARMAN
PA EBERT
SA KEDDIE
ST DAVIES
WA MODRA
WO BLIGHT
WT HEAD
WO/WT PAVLICH

[Magpiespower]

However it must be said thanks to the Oatey/Sturt influence I believe SA footballers were ahead of the game with repsect to the modern play on handball influence compared to the long kicking style of the Hafey Victorian era that was in vogue with Richmond. It irks me how Victorians go on about the Len Smith influence on the modern game with respect to handball, when oatey had it perfected in SA while the Vics were still experimenting with it, not until after the 1970 "handball, handball, handball, VFL Grand Final did Victorians embrace handball as an attacking weapon....

I've read somewhere that the reason the Vics beat us routinely in the 50s and 60s was because of their use of the handball.

Actually, I'm pretty sure it was an Oatey quote...

[leftlegger]

Well the 73 GF isn't he best DVD to get a picture of how well Robran was as he had a relatively quiet one, like the other "stars" in that game Marker, Cornes, Phillis, Schache, von Bertoch etc.

Only real star to have a blinder that day was Bob Hammond who shut out Fred Phillis (did he ever play well in the big one???), Kerry Hamilton played well and the young kid Carey looks like he could play a bit, maybe a bit of future for him.

What about Rexy Voigt! I wouldve given him the Seiko!!