Adelaide suburbs and SANFL teams followed

[Klug]

With the push for SANFL clubs to engage their communities, and convert youngsters into junior footballers and hopefully supoporters, I've been thinking about the pre-AFL SANFL days, and trying to understand where each team gets its supporter base from.

Cramming the five clubs of Port, Woodville, West Torrens, West Adelaide, Glenelg into the north-west / western suburbs doesn't seem like a move that was going to work (hindsight is great). Why were these teams all in the comp, within a 15km ring of each other? Why wasn't a team from say Tea Tree Gully brought into the SANFL, which could have slotted in between North and Norwood's recruiting zone?

Norwood, Glenelg, Port Adelaide seem obvious where their supporters come from, but I'm interested in which suburbs have traditionally followed South Adelaide or even Westies? Suburbs that may supporters Westies, a bit like West Torrens traditionally, seems to have an ageing population with light industry around Marleston, Richmond, Keswick. They don't seem to have much geographical space to work with, and develop their juniors. South Adelaide have now moved to Noarlunga, but prior to that, where were their supporters historically drawn from? Is St Marys, Pasadena etc, the traditional home of the Panthers supporters? Did they ever have a home ground down that way, or have they always played at Adelaide Oval. It strikes me as odd that one of the most historic SANFL teams, doesnt have a well recognised or defined suburb that it is associated with.

[RB]

I'm under the impression that in the 19th century, most South supporters lived in the south-east quarter of the CBD, i.e. between King William St., Wakefield St., Sth. Tce. and East Tce.

[southee]

I'm under the impression that in the 19th century, most South supporters lived in the south-east quarter of the CBD, i.e. between King William St., Wakefield St., Sth. Tce. and East Tce.

Quoted from the South Adelaide official website :


At this time their matches were played at the old Jubilee Oval, which was located next to Frome Road in what is now the University of Adelaide. Prior to this, in the 1890's, they had made use of a ground in the South Parklands close to Hutt Street and the old Arab Steed Hotel, where players often used to go for half-time drinks! Other ovals which the club has used for home matches include the Kensington Oval (which was right next to the tram), the Adelaide Oval (which was a real favourite for both players and spectators), and now the new oval at Noarlunga.

Hope this helps a bit.

[Country Cousin]

I'm guessing that Klug is a young person. Since I'm, how shall I put it? A much older one, I'll try to give a bit of backgound. Adelaide today and indeed from the 1960's onward, when the population expansion to the north and south took off, is unrecognizable from what it was like when I was growing up in the 1940s. Remember that the 8 team competition after the admission of Glenelg in the 1920s was mostly clustered around the ovals of the inner suburbs and had been since the turn of the century. Pretty much everything north of Gepps Cross, south of Marino and east of Magill around to Mitcham was basically farm land. Ever since the introduction of Centrals, the SANFL has struggled with the problem of demographic change, that's seen the movement of younger people to the developing outer suburbs. The inclusion of Woodville was a mistake, made to try to avoid a 9 team competition. That it resulted in the collapse of West Torrens and a 9 team comp anyway, was predicted by many people at the time. I've posted in the past on this forum that, in my view, somewhere not too far down the track, a better way will need to be found to allocate player resources, other than drawing lines on the map. But that's another topic altogether.

[Sojourner]

South Adelaide did have a home ground at St Marys, or intended too anyway, it was called "Panther Park" and is now the current ground of the Gaelic football association and was once the home of the Kenilworth club. The council would not give approval for parking around the ground and it became a training oval only. South are the only club that have had the SANFL redistribute their borders to exclude their home ground from their zone clearly because they wanted to push the club further South which I dont disagree with.

The issue is that Reynella / Morphett Vale / Christies / Noarlunga area was well developed by the 1960's and should have had its own side in the SANFL. In the 1970's Tea Tree Gully saw similar levels of growth and should also have been admitted along with Mt Barker and the hills region in the 2000's.

The issue with the SANFL is that they have concentrated their footprint in a very limited area and have not moved with the times. Its called "Local Footy" but there is nothing local about a 20k trip from TTG to the Parade across other council areas. Hence why the SANFL is largely blacked out in the TTG and the Adelaide Hills areas and other sports such as Soccer and Amaturer league footy are filling the gap Many Amatuer league matches in TTG are well attended and popular as people prefer the local product. Few companies would have the same footprint for their stores as the SANFL has for its clubs, hard decisions would be made and stores would be either relocated or opened up in growth areas to catch the market. The consequence of not doing it is less interest in the product and loss of market share as a result which is happening now in those areas where they are not represented by a local club.

Woodville might be gone but there are still Four sides in the Western Suburbs and it pretty obvious that it is not sustainable in the long term in an ageing area that has no new building growth.

The SANFL are aware of the issue, West Torrens was allocated the Modbury / North East area in the late 1990s to address the issue and with the intention of relocating West Torrens to the area, the amalgamation went ahead and the zones were redistributed. I would not be surprised if the same area was again included in the footprint of a Western Suburbs based club with the SANFL having the same intention to relocate one of them out of the western suburbs to ease the pressure on the other three and to open up a new market for the other.

Its also interesting to note that the pressure on boundaries is rapidly approaching Prospect Oval who will in the next few years may well find themselves facing the same scenario that their immediate area may be the footprint of the WWT club which has reached the Fitzroy area so far. As the North East grows with the new developments at Northfield, Yatala and Greenwith I suspect North will be pushed in that area and WWT will take up the old if a change is not made for a relocation of a side to that area.

[Hondo]

How much would an SANFL team based at Golden Grove or TTG impinge on what Centrals currently have in terms of regional support I wonder? I agree with Soj that the TTG area was crying out for a local team in the 70s and 80s and perhaps if the same forsight that was used on the CDFC was applied to Woodvile (ie, work out where the next population growth would be) we would still have a 10 team comp.

Also, it seems to me that South Adelaide took too long to move to the Southern Suburbs in hindsight.

From where I live I am 15 minutes drive (on a good run) from Prospect, Richmond, Glenelg, Unley, Thebarton and Woodville ovals. I always think that is strange to have that level of concentration. However, in the current environment with the AFL would a relocation of a Western suburbs team necessarially create more profits for that club. Today it's as much or more about where their pokies are located rather than where their home ground is I fear. Norwood and North now have gaming facilities in the North Eastern suburbs.

It's an interesting discussion.

[spell_check]

There was this report done but ignored in 1962:

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=24184

[robranisgod]

Was the report ignored? I have always been led to believe that it was voted upon by the representatives of the clubs. The vote was tied at four all and on the casting vote of the league president South survived. Of course within two years they had won a flag but then within another 5 years they had won the wooden spoon again.

[Hondo]

It's interesting that the recommendation was to not expand beyond 8 teams hence the push to either relocate South to Elizabeth or cull them completely.

On the TTG area, I grew up in the middle of that area and in my time as a kid (late 70s and early 80s) I reckon a TTG team would have captured enough of that area to have a good support base. All us kids latched onto the popular teams of the time being Port, Norwood, Glenelg or Sturt. Onviously we had no real regional connection to any team and 90% jumped on one of the popular bandwagons of the day. So I reckon a lot would have chosen the hypothetical TTG team instead.

West Torrens had our junior development area until about 1980 and then Norwood took it over. Both clubs felt very remote from us. Rod Galt (I think that was his name - blonde headed West Torrens ruckman) presented my guernsey in 1980 (grade 4 team).

[FlyingHigh]

I went to high school in that area too Hondo, must be about 5 years younger, and from memory Norwood would have had the higher following, but still lots of Port, and a little North, which was probably reflective of the "predictability" of the SANFL in the mid-late 80's. Actually knew a few Woodville and Torrens kids, but can't recall too many young Bays supporters.

Agree that being a typical suburban family area with lots of teenagers everyone jumped on the bandwagon, and this probably more than anything turned me off the Crows in 1993.

To me Norwood always felt the local club and not really remote (perhaps because I also had ties in their Hills zone), but agree with you and Soj, following the Gullies and Modbury has just as much cred as following an SANFL club these days. The move of West Torrens to that area would have been a success.

Have moved away, may or may not be accurate, but I get the impression that the TTG, Banksia, Fairview Park area isn't really overly Centrals, that area is more newer Golden Grove, Wynn Vale area leading into the adjoining the Salisbury area, and perhaps with a greater % of younger families and teenagers, much like TTG was 20-30 years ago.

[Sojourner]

To me Norwood always felt the local club and not really remote (perhaps because I also had ties in their Hills zone), but agree with you and Soj, following the Gullies and Modbury has just as much cred as following an SANFL club these days. The move of West Torrens to that area would have been a success.

Have moved away, may or may not be accurate, but I get the impression that the TTG, Banksia, Fairview Park area isn't really overly Centrals, that area is more newer Golden Grove, Wynn Vale area leading into the adjoining the Salisbury area, and perhaps with a greater % of younger families and teenagers, much like TTG was 20-30 years ago.

Think you would be right, CDFC is still a long drive away from the area and in a rival council area that shares no boundary with TTG. Both Modbury and the Gullies have a very high follwing in the area and thier home ground resemble the SANFL with cars filling up the parking in local streets some way from the ground on match day. TTG currently have a waiting list for junior players who want to play for the club, not sure about the Hawks. Norwood have a pokies bar on the other side of Grand Junction Rd and it does not seem to enjoy the success they thought it might, North have their club on the top of Grand Junction Rd at Northfield and that tends to be the only existance of the SANFL in the N/Eastern suburbs which is right on the begining of it, again its based at another local club which has had some success over the years also.

[FlyingHigh]

Yeah, we might be getting off topic, but the North pokies bar is in a great spot, prominent on GJ road, and lots from that way would go past it on the way to the footy.
The Norwood one in the old Pizza Hut, is not really noticeable from the road I find. Somewhere like in the Modbury pub precinct or perhaps even the Bremen Hotel which has been sold a couple times over the last few years would be better options IMO.

[Hondo]

Have moved away, may or may not be accurate, but I get the impression that the TTG, Banksia, Fairview Park area isn't really overly Centrals, that area is more newer Golden Grove, Wynn Vale area leading into the adjoining the Salisbury area, and perhaps with a greater % of younger families and teenagers, much like TTG was 20-30 years ago.

I agree on Fairview Park and surrounding suburbs not having much connection to Centrals. It's moreso the Golden Grove/Greenwith area heading down to the plains that may connect more and therefore create some issue for Centrals if a new team went there. The Fairview Park area is now ageing and the new growth seems to be happening in the connection of Greenwith to Salisbury and then out to Gawler slowly which is closer to Central's turf.

To me it's really obvious in hindsight that the SANFL missed the boat in both TTG and in the earlier move to the Southern suburbs.

[Hondo]

The Norwood one in the old Pizza Hut, is not really noticeable from the road I find. Somewhere like in the Modbury pub precinct or perhaps even the Bremen Hotel which has been sold a couple times over the last few years would be better options IMO.

I agree I drove past there the other weekend and didn't notice it at all. My expectations were raised with North's very prominent location on Grand Juntion Road. That's ideal.

As an aside, who has the TTG area as their development zone now? Is it still Norwood?

[FlyingHigh]

Pretty sure it is still the Norwood zone. Think Cam Shenton came from Golden Grove FC.
Was always confusing as a kid because we played in the North Adelaide Junior footy league, and this was a mix of North and Norwood's area.

[FlyingHigh]

Have moved away, may or may not be accurate, but I get the impression that the TTG, Banksia, Fairview Park area isn't really overly Centrals, that area is more newer Golden Grove, Wynn Vale area leading into the adjoining the Salisbury area, and perhaps with a greater % of younger families and teenagers, much like TTG was 20-30 years ago.

I agree on Fairview Park and surrounding suburbs not having much connection to Centrals. It's moreso the Golden Grove/Greenwith area heading down to the plains that may connect more and therefore create some issue for Centrals if a new team went there. The Fairview Park area is now ageing and the new growth seems to be happening in the connection of Greenwith to Salisbury and then out to Gawler slowly which is closer to Central's turf.

To me it's really obvious in hindsight that the SANFL missed the boat in both TTG and in the earlier move to the Southern suburbs.

Yeah, agree too about the southern suburbs, surely the writing was on the wall in the late 70's?

The Fairview Park, Banksia, TTG area will be interesting from a demographic view, as a lot of the families would now have reitring parents and kids moved away, and is still a nice area, so will be interesting to see if it regenerates itself over the next 10 years.

[baggy8]

South Adelaide have now moved to Noarlunga, but prior to that, where were their supporters historically drawn from? Is St Marys, Pasadena etc, the traditional home of the Panthers supporters? Did they ever have a home ground down that way, or have they always played at Adelaide Oval. It strikes me as odd that one of the most historic SANFL teams, doesnt have a well recognised or defined suburb that it is associated with.

Back in the 60s, I'm pretty certain South's zone, from which they derived a fair degree of support, was very close to south of what is now Greenhill Rd, south-east of Anzac Highway, and all in between Marion Road and Goodwood Road south to the Hills face, whch was effectively the end of the metropolitan area then.

[Macca19]

Bringing in Woodville seems farcical considering Port and Torrens were already pretty close together. What was Woodvilles story pre-SANFL? Seems like they were just brought in to help cut Ports zone (which worked).

[heater31]

Bringing in Woodville seems farcical considering Port and Torrens were already pretty close together. What was Woodvilles story pre-SANFL? Seems like they were just brought in to help cut Ports zone (which worked).

Woodville played in the SAAFL prior to joining the SANFL think they last won a flag in 1940??

[baggy8]

Bringing in Woodville seems farcical considering Port and Torrens were already pretty close together.

I think the league naively thought that Port and Torrens as the two most successful clubs of the 50s could withstand the admission of Woodville, who came into the second eighteens competition in 1959. Port's domination of the 50s is well documented, but often overlooked is the fact that the WTFC won nine premierships in five seasons between 1953 and 1957.