Russell Ebert, Barry Robran, Paul Bagshaw?

[magpie in the 80's]

ebert and robran = magarey medals
bagshaw=0

enough said

Hmmm ... interesting. So you are saying Grimwood, Duckworth and Antrobus were better players than Bagshaw?

Exactly, I don't think I'd rate Greg Whittlesea or Mark Naley as better players than Ken Farmer too.

JUST MY ANSWER TO THE THREAD TOPIC AH AND WEDGIE. DONT REMEMBER SEEING GRIMWOOD, DUCKWORTH, ANTROBUS,WHITTLESEA, NALEY IN THE THREAD TITLE

LIKE A LOT OF TOPICS DISCUSSED ON THIS SITE TEND TO GO OFF THE ACTUAL TOPIC

I realise those players were not mentioned, but I am not getting off the subject. You made a statement about Robran and Ebert winning medals whereas Bagshaw did not. You made the inference that the other two were better players because they won medals. I was merely pointing out that the fact Bagshaw never won a medal is irrelevant when discussing who were the better players. Had Robran or Ebert never won a medal, they still would have been just as good as players.

IMO EBERT AND ROBRAN WERE BETTER THAN BAGSHAW AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT THE OTHER PLAYERS MENTIONED WERE BETTER THAN BAGSHAW YOU WERE THE ONE INSINUATING IT AH

[magpie in the 80's]

ebert and robran = magarey medals
bagshaw=0

enough said

Hmmm ... interesting. So you are saying Grimwood, Duckworth and Antrobus were better players than Bagshaw?

Exactly, I don't think I'd rate Greg Whittlesea or Mark Naley as better players than Ken Farmer too.

JUST MY ANSWER TO THE THREAD TOPIC AH AND WEDGIE. DONT REMEMBER SEEING GRIMWOOD, DUCKWORTH, ANTROBUS,WHITTLESEA, NALEY IN THE THREAD TITLE

LIKE A LOT OF TOPICS DISCUSSED ON THIS SITE TEND TO GO OFF THE ACTUAL TOPIC

I realise those players were not mentioned, but I am not getting off the subject. You made a statement about Robran and Ebert winning medals whereas Bagshaw did not. You made the inference that the other two were better players because they won medals. I was merely pointing out that the fact Bagshaw never won a medal is irrelevant when discussing who were the better players. Had Robran or Ebert never won a medal, they still would have been just as good as players.

IMO EBERT AND ROBRAN WERE BETTER THAN BAGSHAW AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT THE OTHER PLAYERS MENTIONED WERE BETTER THAN BAGSHAW YOU WERE THE ONE INSINUATING IT AH

[Wedgie]

I think another interesting hypothetical question that could never be fully answered would be how many Magareys Robran might have won if he hadn't had his knee taken out from Leigh Matthews at the SCG on that fateful day and how many of Eberts medals might have not been won.
Dare I say it but could Robran have possibly won about 5 or 6 with Ebert only having 2?

[am Bays]

Its an interesting area of debate - players having teammates who take votes from them. I think you can look at it in a couple of ways. I would argue that Port had great players in 71, 74, 76, and 80 (Light, Woite, Cunningham, Phillips, Evans etc etc), but Ebert was just a class above them, so as to prevent them to take votes off him, whilst it could be argued that Bagshaw wasn't superior enough to avoid the other Sturt champions taking votes off him.

Good point.

What also needs to be noted is that the three gentlemen in this debate are fighting to be considered the second best player in SANFL history after:

[Wedgie]

Good point.

What also needs to be noted is that the three gentlemen in this debate are fighting to be considered the second best player in SANFL history after:

Yeah, and as we both know Barrie R rated Cornes as one of the best 5 footballers of all times.
I told my old man that today and he almost choked on his VB!
(That'll teach him for drinking swill when Pale is available, bloody feral! )

[GWW]

Who knows Wedgie, Ebert won one in 71 when Robran was playing. I dont have any stats on how many games Robran played that year, and perhaps even more significantly this was before Robran's injury, so this one doesn't come into your hypothetical equation. It does show though that Ebert was capable of winning one against a "fit" Robran.

You'd certainly have to think that Robran would have won more than 3, and presumably would have outpolled Grimwood in 77, and maybe Woite in 75 (also maybe Duckworth in 79).

Im willing to speculate/hypothesise that Robran would have won maybe 5 or 6 as well, but if he was clearly that far above every other player throughout the entirety of the 70's, as he obviously was, he no doubt would have come up against "rough" treatment from coaches such as Kerley, and chances are he probably would have had other injuries in those years that probably would have prevented him winning the MM in some of those years.

I'd still like to think that Ebert would have won at least 3, but of course, none of us will ever know.

So my tally guess - Robran 5, Ebert 3.

[GWW]

Its an interesting area of debate - players having teammates who take votes from them. I think you can look at it in a couple of ways. I would argue that Port had great players in 71, 74, 76, and 80 (Light, Woite, Cunningham, Phillips, Evans etc etc), but Ebert was just a class above them, so as to prevent them to take votes off him, whilst it could be argued that Bagshaw wasn't superior enough to avoid the other Sturt champions taking votes off him.

Good point.

What also needs to be noted is that the three gentlemen in this debate are fighting to be considered the second best player in SANFL history after:

G Cornes was obviously a champion in the 70's TM, but i think to get a guage on how he ranks, its probably a good idea to consider the views of impartial supporters (as opposed to biased Bay supporters ). 90% of non North and Port supporters put Robran and Ebert as the top 2 players of the 70's, if not ever. Cornes is highly regarded by SANFL followers, but certainly not quite up there with those 2 champions.

Looks like you'll have to settle for no better than 3rd best in the 70's TM

[Wedgie]

Who knows Wedgie, Ebert won one in 71 when Robran was playing. I dont have any stats on how many games Robran played that year, and perhaps even more significantly this was before Robran's injury, so this one doesn't come into your hypothetical equation. It does show though that Ebert was capable of winning one against a "fit" Robran.

You'd certainly have to think that Robran would have won more than 3, and presumably would have outpolled Grimwood in 77, and maybe Woite in 75 (also maybe Duckworth in 79).

Im willing to speculate/hypothesise that Robran would have won maybe 5 or 6 as well, but if he was clearly that far above every other player throughout the entirety of the 70's, as he obviously was, he no doubt would have come up against "rough" treatment from coaches such as Kerley, and chances are he probably would have had other injuries in those years that probably would have prevented him winning the MM in some of those years.

I'd still like to think that Ebert would have won at least 3, but of course, none of us will ever know.

So my tally guess - Robran 5, Ebert 3.

Excellent point about 71 GWW and its a question I've always felt unfair in asking even though its always been at the back of my mind (and probably at the back of a lot of people's minds).
I've had the privilege of having many chats about footy with Barrie and its hard to get an idea from him as the man is the most modest gentleman Ive met in my life, all I know is he has the utmost respect for Rusell and they were both out and out champions and IMHO there's Robran and Ebert and then a gap.

Russell's an interesting character too as Barrie's never really changed (although he does regret doing one thing on the footy field which is why he gave it up) as from a few stories Ive heard (from Port supporters who were around at the time) Russell was quite a wild child and had a few issues when he first came down from the bush. For him to take things on board that were obviously said to him and turn into as big a gentleman as Barrie in life says that he is a truly big man.

To me it will always be Barrie and Russell as the greatest of all time.

[magpie in the 80's]

WORTHY OF THEIR MAGAREY MEDALS

[Adelaide Hawk]

Russell's an interesting character too as Barrie's never really changed (although he does regret doing one thing on the footy field which is why he gave it up) as from a few stories Ive heard (from Port supporters who were around at the time) Russell was quite a wild child and had a few issues when he first came down from the bush. For him to take things on board that were obviously said to him and turn into as big a gentleman as Barrie in life says that he is a truly big man.

Correct Wedgie. The turning point of Russell's career came about at the same time as his appointment as captain in 1974. Prior to that he was, as you said, a "wild child". I know he was in strife with the Port Adelaide committee several times, one in an incident involving alcohol, and Paul Marrett was also involved.

I also heard he went so far as to have talks with another club across the other side of town, but I don't know that to be fact. If you remember Russell on TV pre-1974, he was always moody and wouldn't answer questions when asked. To be blunt, he came across as extremely arrogant.

[am Bays]

G Cornes was obviously a champion in the 70's TM, but i think to get a guage on how he ranks, its probably a good idea to consider the views of impartial supporters (as opposed to biased Bay supporters ). 90% of non North and Port supporters put Robran and Ebert as the top 2 players of the 70's, if not ever. Cornes is highly regarded by SANFL followers, but certainly not quite up there with those 2 champions.

Looks like you'll have to settle for no better than 3rd best in the 70's TM

I know GWW, the man is near and dear to my heart and THE reason why I love this game and the Bays, however premierships, and medals as a player means he is not in the same class as those two and possibly even Davies and Bagshaw.

Despite what my heart thinks the head knows other wise....

[Adelaide Hawk]

ebert and robran = magarey medals
bagshaw=0

enough said

Hmmm ... interesting. So you are saying Grimwood, Duckworth and Antrobus were better players than Bagshaw?

Exactly, I don't think I'd rate Greg Whittlesea or Mark Naley as better players than Ken Farmer too.

JUST MY ANSWER TO THE THREAD TOPIC AH AND WEDGIE. DONT REMEMBER SEEING GRIMWOOD, DUCKWORTH, ANTROBUS,WHITTLESEA, NALEY IN THE THREAD TITLE

LIKE A LOT OF TOPICS DISCUSSED ON THIS SITE TEND TO GO OFF THE ACTUAL TOPIC

I realise those players were not mentioned, but I am not getting off the subject. You made a statement about Robran and Ebert winning medals whereas Bagshaw did not. You made the inference that the other two were better players because they won medals. I was merely pointing out that the fact Bagshaw never won a medal is irrelevant when discussing who were the better players. Had Robran or Ebert never won a medal, they still would have been just as good as players.

IMO EBERT AND ROBRAN WERE BETTER THAN BAGSHAW AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT THE OTHER PLAYERS MENTIONED WERE BETTER THAN BAGSHAW YOU WERE THE ONE INSINUATING IT AH

So what did your reference about Magarey Medal have to do with anything then?

[magpie in the 80's]

ebert and robran = magarey medals
bagshaw=0

enough said

Hmmm ... interesting. So you are saying Grimwood, Duckworth and Antrobus were better players than Bagshaw?

Exactly, I don't think I'd rate Greg Whittlesea or Mark Naley as better players than Ken Farmer too.

JUST MY ANSWER TO THE THREAD TOPIC AH AND WEDGIE. DONT REMEMBER SEEING GRIMWOOD, DUCKWORTH, ANTROBUS,WHITTLESEA, NALEY IN THE THREAD TITLE

LIKE A LOT OF TOPICS DISCUSSED ON THIS SITE TEND TO GO OFF THE ACTUAL TOPIC

I realise those players were not mentioned, but I am not getting off the subject. You made a statement about Robran and Ebert winning medals whereas Bagshaw did not. You made the inference that the other two were better players because they won medals. I was merely pointing out that the fact Bagshaw never won a medal is irrelevant when discussing who were the better players. Had Robran or Ebert never won a medal, they still would have been just as good as players.

IMO EBERT AND ROBRAN WERE BETTER THAN BAGSHAW AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT THE OTHER PLAYERS MENTIONED WERE BETTER THAN BAGSHAW YOU WERE THE ONE INSINUATING IT AH

So what did your reference about Magarey Medal have to do with anything then?

MY REFERENCE IS THAT OUT OF THE 3 PLAYERS EBERT AND ROBRAN WON SO MANY AND BAGSHAW DIDNT AND SEEING THEM ALL PLAY THROUGH THE 70'S I BELIEVE THEY WERE THE BEST AND WINNING THE MM REFLECTS THIS

[Wedgie]

MY REFERENCE IS THAT OUT OF THE 3 PLAYERS EBERT AND ROBRAN WON SO MANY AND BAGSHAW DIDNT AND SEEING THEM ALL PLAY THROUGH THE 70'S I BELIEVE THEY WERE THE BEST AND WINNING THE MM REFLECTS THIS

Dude, stop shouting, its poor 'net etiquette.

[magpie in the 80's]

apologies for the high beam

[godoubleblues]

Ainslie?

Ainslie Football Club has produced some champions in the past...
Like Saint Kilda Premiership player & former Central Districts coach Kevin 'Cowboy' Neale
& dual Premiership player, Brownlow medallist, former Captain & Bomber Legend James Hird.
But Alex Jesaulenko hailed from the A.C.T. club Eastlake.

Cowboy Neale wasnt from Ainslie originally, he came from Warnambool and went to Ainslie after the Saints
Shaun Smith also came from Ainslie

[Snaggletooth Tiger]

Cowboy Neale wasnt from Ainslie originally, he came from Warnambool and went to Ainslie after the Saints
Shaun Smith also came from Ainslie

I stand corrected!
Melbourne's Shaun Smith was the bloke who took the 'Mark of the Century' in a night game against Brisbane back in 1995.
Many would argue, that grab Jezza took over Collingwood's Graeme 'Jerker' Jenkins in the 1970 Grand Final deserves that honour!
...That name Jesaulenko again!

[Punk Rooster]

Seriously, Robran was the best, full stop.
Ebert was clearly 2nd best, & Paul Bagshaw 3rd best- & no shame in being 3rd to Ebert & Robran.

Anything else is just being silly.

Barrie rates Ebert very highly- no coincidence that these 2 champions are so modest that they would deny these accolades, & are both champion people.

[Leaping Lindner]

Robran's record pre the "incident" in 1974

Debuted Round 1 1967.
Won his club's Best and Fairest 1967 - 1973 (inclusive)
Won three Magarey Medals (and had two placings) in 7 seasons
Lost MM by one vote in his debut season (after teammate Lindner tied for it)
Played ever State match he was eligible to play in (except when injured)
(Played State football after 11 SANFL games)
After his debut match in 1967 was never dropped to the seconds.
At the end of 1973 (his 7th season) he was averaging just over one magarey medal vote for each game he played (where votes were given)


Sorry guys it's no contest.
Regarding Bagshaw and Cornes I would argue there are Sturt and Glenelg supporters that wouldn't even have them as the best player at their club in the 70's. When it comes to that Huppatz won more B&Fs than Blight did but that's a whole other story isn't Mcalmanac ?

[McAlmanac]

When it comes to that Huppatz won more B&Fs than Blight did but that's a whole other story isn't Mcalmanac ?

Ray Huppatz at one time was arguably the best rover in Australia. Fantastic big game player in both State matches and finals in the VFL.