Pick the better player: Stephen Copping or Roger Woodcock

[Harry the Horse]

Friends of SA Footy - allow my good but belligerent friend rogernumber10 and I to settle a long running dispute.
Who was the better player? I'm not going to bore you with their achievements ... most of you know them and will many will have seen them play.
Some will of course have biases ... but the poll is open to all, whomever you support.

[am Bays]

As much as I loved Mr Telescopic arms neither was the best half forward flanker of their era that was Michael "Flash" Graham...

Absolute Gun better than Rioli, Long, Wanganeen etc IMHO...

[bayman]

didn't kevin sheedy rate stephen copping one of the best recruits ever to go to essendon at the time ? obviously both great players but i think if your picking a team copping was more versatile & hence he gets my vote & has nothing to do with who either of them played for

[rogernumber10]

My man Horse is going for the blatant troll, but I can't help myself and just have to jump in. Here's the two arguments that he couldn't be stuffed including. I may go the lighter option next time, but nobody disses the great man.

Yep .. a sentence like this: "Stephen Copping ate Roger Woodcock for breakfast".

Let's analyse their careers.

SA State Rep? Coppo: Yes Rog: No
Fos Williams Medals - Coppo: 1 Rog: 0
Played AFL? Coppo: Yes Rog: Still hoping
10 goals in a SANFL game? Coppo: 3 Rog: 0
Kicked both feet? Coppo:Yes Rog: Only when cornered
Finished career with a flag? Coppo: Yes Rog: No
Finished career with a reco? Coppo: No Rog: Yes
Had a moustache that would still fly today? Coppo: Yes Rog: Never shaved
Outmarked taller opponents? Coppo: Yes Rog: Was cheating at the back of the pack

QED

Horse


I'm impressed you went with humour, rather than facts. I'm more than happy to concede that Stephen Copping has a very fine moustache and should be recognised for it. I concede there. Well played, as humour has never been yours or a club strongpoint -- witness great club humourists of the past such as Neil Kerley and Graham Cornes.
However, I can only assume that your statement confirms what I had thought that most of you Glenelg people are delusion. I had thought about three premierships (I will grant you '73 even though you had no clue) from about 14 Grand Final attempts in your time, let alone other disasters like 1980, 1984, this year etc etc, might have granted you a bit of perspective, but it obviously hasn't. Let's go with some numbers, since you do love a good number and didn't put too many in your argument.

Roger slotted 602 goals from 267 games at 2.25 per game. Copping put up 463 goals from 246 games at 1.88 per game. That's about 9 goals more a year, year in-year out for 14 years. Thanks Roger.
Both were non-key forwards, albeit different players, but Roger topped his club goalkicking on four occasions and Copping managed it three times. Thanks Roger.
In Roger's time, much as it pains me to say, Norwood actually missed the finals in three separate seasons in 1969, 70 and 71 while Copping was part of a non-finals side in just one season in his time at the Bay in 79. As such, the Norwood man actually kicked more goals in a poorer time, which is always a challenge. Thanks Roger.

Let's talk about the really big games which matter, such as Grand Finals, and I'll ignore the small matter of three preliminary finals in 75, 78 and 80 when Woodcock kicked two, four and four goals to be the difference in every single one of those knockout finals on the way to a GF.
Woodcock
1975 - Woodcock kicks two out of a team total of just nine goals. While a small number of other sides have kicked only nine goals to win a premiership, such as Sturt in 74, Port in 79, you had to go back to 1962 and Port Adelaide to find a team that had kicked just eight to win a flag. As such, a guy who could convert was important that day, particularly when Fred Phillis picked that day to contribute 0.6.
1978 - Woodcock again contributes two when straight kicking is important against a red-hot favourite who kicks away the flag with 14.26.
1980 - Woodcock contributes two out of just nine goals in a losing side, as we fall short by 18 points against a Port side I still reckon is the best SANFL team to go around.

Copping (I've used the 1990 version of SANFL records by some snuffleburger as my reference, so apologies if there are any errors as the author doesn't list the members of the many losing Glenelg GF teams. He probably didn't have the space!)
1974 - Did he play? If he did, he couldn't manage a contribution on the scoreboard when Sturt wins by 15 points a few goals might have been handy. If he didn't play, well Roger Woodcock was an automatic selection in Norwood finals sides the moment his career began.
1975 - See above. No contribution again, albeit the margin was smaller this year and just 12 points. Again, a contribution would have been useful. If he didn't play, see above.
1977 - Surely he played this one, now four years into his career? Or did he get dropped in September. If he played, I'm still waiting for his first contribution in a Grand Final and Woodcock has six goals across three low-scoring games in two flags.
1981 - Yep, he kicked a goal. Well played. Pity Glenelg only got six for the day, as its score of 6.8 wouldn't have beaten any side unless you went back to the 1921 Challenge Final when Port got up over Norwood.
1985 - Ahhh, Stephen Kernahan has a birthday and kicks seven. Your man gets on the gravy train in the second half and bags three. That's a good contribution, I pay that.
1986 - This year, Tony Hall has the birthday as North completely gas a grand final and your man manages two out of 21. That's a solid contribution in a rout, so I'll pay that.

In summary, my man makes a contribution each time and your man is happy to get on board once some better players stand up. When they didn't stand up, your man was nowhere or not even good enough to be there on the day.

I'll ignore the point on Roger's VFL experience, as virtually no players aside from Blight and Carman crossed in the mid-70s, whereas Copping was at the start of the flood in the early 80s.

As a final point, pretty much everyone on this site agrees that Barrie Robran is THE MAN when it comes to an SA footballer. As such, his opinion carries much weight and I'll defer to his review of round one of the AFL season on the North Adelaide website and I quote:

"Kicking for goal is the one area of our game that hasn't improved and has maybe gone backwards. I know I have stated this before on this column that the best kick for goals from a set shot I ever saw was Norwood's, Roger Woodcock.........he hardly ever missed. He went well back from the man on the mark, came running in with reasonable momentum and did everything else in a straight line. Never anything fancy, just a plain commonsense approach and action {and result}."

If the best player of all says my man was the best kick for goal, that's enough for me.

QED

[am Bays]

Pretty funny stuff their boys, Mind you what was Coppo's performance in 83 and 84 Essendon GFs??

Have you done the same analysis on Flash Rog???

[rogernumber10]

Pretty funny stuff their boys, Mind you what was Coppo's performance in 83 and 84 Essendon GFs??

Have you done the same analysis on Flash Rog???

Flash is / was a very very very good player. I really don't want him as part of this debate and, on behalf of the hamstrings of both Greg Thomas and Phil Gallagher which are each still lying somewhere on the members' wing at footy park after fruitless chases, they don't want Flash in this debate either.

Flash wins too for having more hair than both of them put together, of which only some was on his face and head.

[Harry the Horse]

Ah, at last a return of serve there from young Rog ... I was worried you had passed away in your rocking chair.
Your arguments, while mildly humorous, overlook one fact to which bayman has already alluded ... Coppo had a few more strings to his bow than the Splinter Dick from the Parade who was rooted to the half forward-flank.
Yes, you'll find, if your research of Glenelg players was as extensive as your memory of Norwood's is colourful, that Coppo played many of his first 100 or so games from the wing, a position not normally associated with eight-goal hauls (apologies to Ron Hateley).
That then makes all of your comparisons redundant.

[McAlmanac]

I'll ignore the point on Roger's VFL experience, as virtually no players aside from Blight and Carman crossed in the mid-70s, whereas Copping was at the start of the flood in the early 80s.

It may not have been a flood but Craig McKellar, Ray Huppatz and Neville Roberts were successful exports who all wore the big V at this time. Glynn Hewitt, Barry Norsworthy and Dean Farnham were less successful exports. The correct quote is "virtually no players from top sides".

Ironically, Copping kicked 4 in a losing Elimination Final against a North Melbourne side containing Blight (4 goals) and Carman (3 goals).

[Adelaide Hawk]

Let's face it, Woodcock always was, and always has been under-rated in many circles. Never played a state match where many lesser players did, but what can you expect? .... even his own club under-rated him. 602 goals from a half forward flank and never even made our Team of the Century!!! Absolute joke.

I want to explode the myth that Woodcock couldn't kick right foot. He certainly could, he just never had to all that often.

[Magpiespower]

Never mind Copping v Woodcock.

I'm gonna give rog the points decision...

[Harry the Horse]

Going to take you to task over some of your selective stat recollections too, Rog.
Can anyone give me an example of Woodcock bagging five goals in a final?

Copping did it at least twice when playing as a permanent half-forward.
1985 Qualifying against ... guess who .... 5.0 in a 30-point win over the Redlegs ... fairly influential I'd say.
And 1986 Preliminary against Woodville ... 5.4 in a 21-point win over the Warriors ... even more emphatic.

And both premiership years for the Tiges ...

[rogernumber10]

I'm pleased that most of your best Copping performances can be dredged out of a period when the competition is fast leaking players across the border, and is not the competition it was when Roger was doing his finest work.
When you check the voting, you'll find you're being run over.

[Harry the Horse]

1985 ... Kernahan, Motley, Bradley, Platten ... all still playing in SA.
And Coppo torches your Redlegs.
Now you know you are talking drivel Rog.

[Booney]

Who is Stephen Copping?

Is he the bloke who tried to be Peter Marker?

Anywho, regardless of who you old blokes pick, Rog wins hands down.

[rogernumber10]

Who is Stephen Copping?

Is he the bloke who tried to be Peter Marker?

Anywho, regardless of who you old blokes pick, Rog wins hands down.

Horse is Old.
I am venerable.

Crucial difference in this argument.

[The Yetti]

Who is Stephen Copping?

Is he the bloke who tried to be Peter Marker?

Anywho, regardless of who you old blokes pick, Rog wins hands down.

Booney, You have no idea on this mate.
Copping was the best.

1. Could, and did play, Wing, Centre, On the ball, Full Forward, Pocket and half forward. Therefore more versatile
2. Harder at the ball
3. Better mark
4. Fitter

Roger was a lot neater and looked more a footballer with silky skills.
A better looking kick as Copping had almost a 2 hand drop
Only 1 rightfoot goal in his 600 odd goals
About the same pace

Both Teams Norwood and Glenelg pretty much on equal standing during the 70's and 80' when they played.

[Booney]

I went for Roger Woodcock because I dont like Harry's attitude. Plus Copping played for the Bays.

Perhaps I don't have an idea on this, I almost remember Copping play, but only in his VFL days.

[The Yetti]

I went for Roger Woodcock because I dont like Harry's attitude. Plus Copping played for the Bays.

Perhaps I don't have an idea on this, I almost remember Copping play, but only in his VFL days.

Great reasoning Booney

[Booney]

Tough to argue with.

[Psyber]

I saw them both play - Woodcock for me.
Being a Norwood barracker only biased me a little...