Sack Craig

[tiger07andbeyond]

Its frustrating Footy Smart and Farmy does have some points about that first term against the doggies.

Now we are rebuilding and more 'nightmares' to come. What will we be doing in a fortinght......'This is the recession we had to have'

Thanks for **** all NC

[Reddeer]

Ah that's better Quick reappoint NC

[Grahaml]

So who is going to improve the players better than Neil Craig? I look at guys like Vince, Rutten, Thompson, McKay, Johncock, Tippett and it was Craig that helped them be what they are. When you don't get the benefit of guaranteed stars like top 5 draft picks, the one F/S chance you ever have being duped out of by Victorian biased red tape (50 VFL games=300 SANFL games?) I fail to see the logic.

A coach does 2 major things.

1. Oversee talent development.

He doesn't pick the blokes, so don't bring up anyone drafted by other clubs. But he gets the blokes decided as the best talents available. He turned Bock and Rutten from rookie listed maybes into all-Australian key position players. Johncock is the equal of any AA back pocket. Thompson, Vince and McKay would be AA players in winning sides. Craig is responsible for that.

2. Determines game style.

Mick Malthouse described the 2005 Crows as "unbeatable". But for Biglands doing an ACL in the prelim Craig might be a premiership coach. Not to mention Burton missing the shot to put Adelaide 4 goals up at half time in a final we ended up losing.

All in all Craig I think has been good for Adelaide. We expect a lot. And bar Blight getting that golden generation that Shaw put together none have lived up to expectation. I ache for the day we view coaches in the same light as players, where some are there to develop the talent and others to take them to winning finals and premierships. Blight won 2 flags with Shaw's side, yet we bag Shaw as useless?

[Farmy]

So who is going to improve the players better than Neil Craig?

Nearly any other Coach in the AFL as shown by the decline in form of some players and the lack of development in others like Bernie Vince and Chris Knights etc.

I look at guys like Vince, Rutten, Thompson, McKay, Johncock, Tippett and it was Craig that helped them be what they are.

No it wasn't, that is a lie.

Bernie Vince has gone backwards big time since his sole good season of 2009 and Simon Goodwin should take the credit for Vince's form.
Scott Thompson was already developed before he came to the Crows, Craig is not responsible there, Neale Daniher is.
David MacKay has been pretty good, had some injuries, but so what? It has taken him long enough. He is no where near AA ahahaha.
Johncock, again not Craig, you can thank Gary Ayers.
Kurt Tippet, perhaps, though I think his outstanding athletic and aerobic ability has little to do with Neil Craig.

When you don't get the benefit of guaranteed stars like top 5 draft picks, the one F/S chance you ever have being duped out of by Victorian biased red tape (50 VFL games=300 SANFL games?) I fail to see the logic.

Maybe then he could have tried trading to supplement the apparent misfortune of not getting high draft picks, which again is his fault for not rebuilding.

A coach does 2 major things.

1. Oversee talent development.

He doesn't pick the blokes, so don't bring up anyone drafted by other clubs.

Yeah because it is not like the team is involved in a competition at all and has to "compete" with other clubs, who cares what type of players they pick.

But he gets the blokes decided as the best talents available. He turned Bock and Rutten from rookie listed maybes into all-Australian key position players.

Yes, two blokes drafted and developed (albeit not given much opportunity) by Gary Ayers.

Johncock is the equal of any AA back pocket.

Debatable, but again he has never been picked AA and has in no way actually reached his potential in his career.

Thompson, Vince and McKay would be AA players in winning sides. Craig is responsible for that.

He is responsible for the team losing so much that players would look better in other sides? You must be joking mate. David MacKay is nowhere near AA, regardless of who he played for, Vince as well. No sane person would suggest they were close to AA, perhaps Thompson would be, if he was away from the lazy team that Neil Craig has created, but again that wouldn't have been because of Neil, it would be because of Neale.

2. Determines game style.

Mick Malthouse described the 2005 Crows as "unbeatable".

Woah 2005, 6 seasons ago. That is completely relevant, however 2005/6 has more to do with the experienced, hardened, talented prelim final standard list that Neil Craig inherited from Gary Ayers, but don't let facts get in the way of bullshit. That isn't even mentioning the experienced group of assistant coaches Neil Craig had at the time, unlike the gaggle of morons now.

But for Biglands doing an ACL in the prelim Craig might be a premiership coach.

Might, maybe, possibly, DIDN'T, DOESN'T, WON'T. Biglands did his knee in 2006.

Not to mention Burton missing the shot to put Adelaide 4 goals up at half time in a final we ended up losing.

Oh you mean another final coached by Neil Craig where the Crows are 20-30 points up and then fall in a heap and lose, the mean the finals that he loses repeatedly.

All in all Craig I think has been good for Adelaide. We expect a lot.

We expect premierships, that is not a lot, that is the standard.

And bar Blight getting that golden generation that Shaw put together none have lived up to expectation.

Ok, so Blight inherited a Golden generation from Shaw (and went on to win back to back Premierships. Yet Craig is responsible for the development of players he didn't draft or develop with which he won nothing, like he won nothing for Norwood. Craig isn't a coaches arsehole compared to Blight.

I ache for the day we view coaches in the same light as players, where some are there to develop the talent and others to take them to winning finals and premierships.

Right, but what is Neil Craig done? Coach since mid 2004, he has neither taken the team to winning finals and premierships or developed the talent properly.

7 years mate, it has been seven years how long does he need to lose finals with an already developed squad and then over 4 years fail to rebuild or develop players properly.

Blight won 2 flags with Shaw's side, yet we bag Shaw as useless?

Because Shaw was useless, I thought you said that it isn't the coach who drafts the players? Shaw wasn't coach for very long so how was it his side? Blight won the flags, but I guess it is like how Neil Craig lost finals with Gary Ayers side.

Fact is, Neil Craig hasn't been an awful coach, but he hasn't been a great one either. He has made mistakes repeatedly and failed to rectify them. The side has declined since 2007 and is continuing to get worse under his leadership. Sides that were up and about in 2005/6 are now ahead of the Crows again.

[Farmy]

If Craig honestly thinks that what the Crows dished up in the first quarter against the Bulldogs was actually good, then he has clearly lost it.

I think you may have lost it. 4 goals up iirc.

No the Crows lost it, the game that is.

Honestly if anyone let alone the coach thinks that quarter was something to be proud of, well its clear they are lying or they know nothing about football.

A quarter of soft football with cheap and easy goals against a **** side, who then worked the Crows out, applied a little pressure and the Crows went to water.

Get back to me when the Crows are 4 goals up in spite of desperate intense pressure, not with a complete absence of it like the first quarter last night.

Oh wait, hang on. That has not happened once this year, and it won't happen while Neil "Finals losing uncontested football" Craig is in charge. And the Collingwood game doesn't count, Collingwood were not on, as evidenced by the fact they switched it on and smashed the pathetic Crows by 60 points in half a quarter.

You are an imbecile Farmy, a ****** of the highest order. You are so anti-NC that you will never give the 'players' any credit. You will always find a factor that minimises their effort. If you think the boys are going out there and not trying you are as you put it "lying or no nothing about football". The players are preparing themselves as best they can and while things aren’t working they are trying that you cant take away from them. You can only play against the team that is out there.

You are a supporter that AFC doesn’t want or need. So do the rest of the AFC supporter base a favour and **** the hell off because you are giving us a bad name and the rest of the crow hating/bashing supporters out there love it and it does no good what so ever.

You should change your name to Footy dumb. Yeah the AFC doesn't need supporters, because 23,000 crowds are great! It isn't like they're grown men, professional footballers who get paid a lot of money to perform and entertain the public. Nope, no difference in effort between the game last night and any other game this season, none whatsoever they have been trying at the same exact level in all those games.

[Hondo]

Farmy I am involved in some footy discussion groups mostly made up of Victorian posters and you'd be surprsied at how highly Neil Craig is rated over there. To say that the performance of current players has nothing to do with Craig but rather coaches they had 6-7 years ago is ridiculous.

[Farmy]

Farmy I am involved in some footy discussion groups mostly made up of Victorian posters and you'd be surprsied at how highly Neil Craig is rated over there. To say that the performance of current players has nothing to do with Craig but rather coaches they had 6-7 years ago is ridiculous.

Oh wow, Victorians.

How amazing

That isn't what I said, but whatever, go chat to your Victorian supermen.

[JK]

Remember guys, healthy debate, discussion and banter is what we encourage on the site, but let's not head down the path of personal attacks.

Thanks,
JK (Per Mods)

[Farmy]

Fair enough

[Hondo]

Farmy we are all frustrated with our season and maybe NC will be gone next year but your posting is like a vendetta. You deny that NC has achieved anything at all. It's not as though it's been a barren wasteland this last 7 years.

[Psyber]

Blight won 2 flags with Shaw's side, yet we bag Shaw as useless?

He did first weed out some "past it" players who were holding the team back, having set that as one of the conditions for taking on the job.
However, I agree with other posters that Farmy is over the top in his approach to Neil Craig.
I do think that NC did good for the Crows, but that good based on extreme fitness and the running game reached its peak of effectiveness around 2004/2005, and that it is now time for a different approach.

[Hondo]

I think when you see a big step up in one year with a change of coach you can raise questions about the predecessor

- Shaw took us to bottom 8 both years yet Blighty took the same list (with some culling) to 2 flags
- Craig took us to 2 prelim finals (should have gone one step further) with a team that Ayres had taken to 4th, down to 6th and then out of the finals

I am not a fan of the Shaw or Ayres years.

[Farmy]

Injuries in 2004 we're the worst of the decade remember. For what its worth I think Ayers sucked as well.

[Reddeer]

Blight won 2 flags with Shaw's side, yet we bag Shaw as useless?

He did first weed out some "past it" players who were holding the team back, having set that as one of the conditions for taking on the job.
However, I agree with other posters that Farmy is over the top in his approach to Neil Craig.
I do think that NC did good for the Crows, but that good based on extreme fitness and the running game reached its peak of effectiveness around 2004/2005, and that it is now time for a different approach.

Will never happen under Craig. His way stubbornly or no way. end result mainly no way. Will never ever take advice unless it is a major supporter backlash i.e. Tyson Edwards

[Psyber]

Blight won 2 flags with Shaw's side, yet we bag Shaw as useless?

He did first weed out some "past it" players who were holding the team back, having set that as one of the conditions for taking on the job.
However, I agree with other posters that Farmy is over the top in his approach to Neil Craig.
I do think that NC did good for the Crows, but that good based on extreme fitness and the running game reached its peak of effectiveness around 2004/2005, and that it is now time for a different approach.

Will never happen under Craig. His way stubbornly or no way. end result mainly no way. Will never ever take advice unless it is a major supporter backlash i.e. Tyson Edwards

Yes, I was assuming the "different approach" would have to come under a new coach.

[Farmy]

What bothers me, and really it is the only thing that actually bothers me is the amount of people that think it would be a good idea to have Craig stay on as a "mentor". To me it seems like a horrible idea and a clear recipe for disaster.

[Bag The Points]

What bothers me, and really it is the only thing that actually bothers me is the amount of people that think it would be a good idea to have Craig stay on as a "mentor". To me it seems like a horrible idea and a clear recipe for disaster.

While you're at it Farmy, why don't you call for his hanging !!
Boy, talk about sticking the boots in !

[tiger07andbeyond]

To stay on as a mentor is funny stuff. Did someone seriously say that?

[Gingernuts]

I could be wrong, but I don't believe that anyone from the club has said anything of the sort. It has just been speculation by The Advertiser.

[gossipgirl]

just more dribble made up by rucci, I suspect