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Re: Essendon 2014

Postby woodublieve12 » Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:18 pm

whufc wrote:
woodublieve12 wrote:
whufc wrote:Football Federation Australia owe Essendon millions!!!!

While the real football showpiece is taking place the AFL is crumbling at its knees

This is the best leg up the round ball game has ever had in this country!


Australia will get crushed... Then all the people who jump on the "football" bandwagon every four years will jump off when it's done.

Anyone who thinks soccer will take over Aussie rules has no idea about sport...


:oops:

How many games did we win??? We came last... Nothing to get excited about...
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Re: Essendon 2014

Postby Jim05 » Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:07 pm

probie wrote:You know, for a side sitting ninth and one game out of the eight, it seems there's been no talk of how the bombers have played this season on this thread. Other than bagging Geelong for letting Chapman go.

Not much to talk about, we are a middle of the pack side. Have played some real good footy but not in long enough patches, can string 1 or 2 good quarters together but have really yet to put in a whole 4 quarter performance. Couple of terrible losses to St Kilda and Melbourne will probably ensure no finals actions again. Been good getting some game time into the younger players and very happy with Joey's improvement. Still probably another key forward and defender away from being able to get close to the top 4-5. Players have done well to cope with the pressure and scrutiny on them, its been fairly draining and it would be interesting to see how they played without all this external stuff going on
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Re: Essendon 2014

Postby whufc » Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:03 am

woodublieve12 wrote:
whufc wrote:
woodublieve12 wrote:
whufc wrote:Football Federation Australia owe Essendon millions!!!!

While the real football showpiece is taking place the AFL is crumbling at its knees

This is the best leg up the round ball game has ever had in this country!


Australia will get crushed... Then all the people who jump on the "football" bandwagon every four years will jump off when it's done.

Anyone who thinks soccer will take over Aussie rules has no idea about sport...


:oops:

How many games did we win??? We came last... Nothing to get excited about...


Definatly not crushed and performed above players talents.

Very happy with the way we played
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Re: Essendon 2014

Postby Booney » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:53 pm

The AFL arranged for special testing of samples from Essendon players during 2012, months before the club's supplements scandal broke.

An explosive video has emerged featuring a speech from AFL medical officer Peter Harcourt last November at an anti-doping conference in Zurich.

Harcourt reveals the overseas testing and makes several strong comments about what Essendon's controversial 2012 supplements program involved.

The doctor also said he was setting up a program to monitor the players involved in the supplements regime because of fears they might contract cancer or have other hormonal problems.

The video emerged on the same day that Essendon, their suspended coach James Hird and ASADA returned to the Federal Court.

Essendon and Hird are trying to have the joint AFL and ASADA investigation of the club declared unlawful.

"We did have some wind of this (the supplements program) during the course of the year ... and so we did arrange through ASADA to have a number of specimens (from) these players sent to the Cologne laboratory, rather than the Sydney laboratory," Harcourt told the conference.

"But nothing came out of it."

Essendon announced on February 5 last year that it was coming under the joint investigation.

In August, the AFL kicked Essendon out of the finals and banned Hird for 12 months among several severe penalties.

Last month, ASADA served show cause notices on 34 current and former Essendon players, prompting the legal action from the club and Hird.

Harcourt's commentary in the video about what happened at the club is scathing.

"It was shocking, the extent to which experimental drugs were given to young athletes," he said.

"It highlighted the craziness or madness of certain individuals who were in the support staff, who really didn't come to grips with what they were doing."

He accused senior club officials of having "fan syndrome" where they accepted what was going on with the supplements program.

"(There was) fan syndrome ... the leadership at the club were ex-players who were icons of the game," Dr Harcourt said.

"I think this intimidated a number of management staff, the corporate management of the club."

He also did not spare the players involved in the program.

"There was quite broad acceptance by the players of this program, even though it involved quite unusual practices and hundreds of injections," he said.

"Athletes passively accepted the use - this shocked us, that players did not jack up and say 'what the hell is going on?'"

Harcourt added those players would need monitoring for potential health problems stemming from the supplements they took.

He said some of the substances involved remained unknown.

"This is the sobering element - my job now is to work out a program to monitor the players for the next five to 10 years," he said.

"They were given such exotic substances, many of them growth factors, which means we're looking at potential hormonal issues or cancers.

"Now we have to go through a process of looking after (these) 35-odd players just to make sure nothing really nasty happened to them from this crazy activity that individuals allowed to occur at the club."

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Re: Essendon 2014

Postby stan » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:07 pm

In mu opinion the AFL, ASADA and Essendon have massively stuffed up. Just a total circus now from all involved.
Read my reply. It is directed at you because you have double standards
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Re: Essendon 2014

Postby daysofourlives » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:10 pm

stan wrote:In mu opinion the AFL, ASADA and Essendon have massively stuff up.


No, just Essendon have massively stuffed up, AFL and ASADA didnt inject the players.
Going by that report above it puts Hird right in the gun as the "mastermind"
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Re: Essendon 2014

Postby stan » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:13 pm

daysofourlives wrote:
stan wrote:In mu opinion the AFL, ASADA and Essendon have massively stuff up.


No, just Essendon have massively stuffed up, AFL and ASADA didnt inject the players.
Going by that report above it puts Hird right in the gun as the "mastermind"

You dont think the AFL and ASADA have botched up this as well?
Read my reply. It is directed at you because you have double standards
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Re: Essendon 2014

Postby daysofourlives » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:36 pm

stan wrote:
daysofourlives wrote:
stan wrote:In mu opinion the AFL, ASADA and Essendon have massively stuff up.


No, just Essendon have massively stuffed up, AFL and ASADA didnt inject the players.
Going by that report above it puts Hird right in the gun as the "mastermind"

You dont think the AFL and ASADA have botched up this as well?


They have done their best in a very complicated situation.
Again, if Essendon didnt inject their players there wouldnt be an issue.
Seems to me the only thing that Essendon fans hang their hat on is blaming the AFL's handling of it. They get this type of shifting the blame game from their leaders who still refuse to accept responsibility as evidenced by their court action.
How bout they just prove they didnt take anything illegal instead of trying to get off on a technicality. The problem with that is they cant prove that they didnt take anything illegal because their record keeping was non existent. You have to ask yourself why would they have no records if it was a legal above board program? On the other hand of course you would not keep records if you were doing illegal programs
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Re: Essendon 2014

Postby Jim05 » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:45 pm

daysofourlives wrote:
stan wrote:In mu opinion the AFL, ASADA and Essendon have massively stuff up.


No, just Essendon have massively stuffed up, AFL and ASADA didnt inject the players.
Going by that report above it puts Hird right in the gun as the "mastermind"

So at the height of this whole saga when Essendon were apparantly using large ammounts of drugs the AFL sent blood samples from players to the best lab in the world yet all tests came back negative for any doping.
Reckon you are kidding yourself if you think other clubs have something to hide either. We are not that smart of a club to have acted on our own, better operated clubs than us have probably just ran their operations better
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Re: Essendon 2014

Postby daysofourlives » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:00 pm

Jim05 wrote:
daysofourlives wrote:
stan wrote:In mu opinion the AFL, ASADA and Essendon have massively stuff up.


No, just Essendon have massively stuffed up, AFL and ASADA didnt inject the players.
Going by that report above it puts Hird right in the gun as the "mastermind"

So at the height of this whole saga when Essendon were apparantly using large ammounts of drugs the AFL sent blood samples from players to the best lab in the world yet all tests came back negative for any doping.
Reckon you are kidding yourself if you think other clubs have something to hide either. We are not that smart of a club to have acted on our own, better operated clubs than us have probably just ran their operations better


And here we go again shifting the blame to other clubs now Jim ;)
See how that defence goes for ya "But they did it first"
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Re: Essendon 2014

Postby Jim05 » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:16 pm

daysofourlives wrote:
Jim05 wrote:
daysofourlives wrote:
stan wrote:In mu opinion the AFL, ASADA and Essendon have massively stuff up.


No, just Essendon have massively stuffed up, AFL and ASADA didnt inject the players.
Going by that report above it puts Hird right in the gun as the "mastermind"

So at the height of this whole saga when Essendon were apparantly using large ammounts of drugs the AFL sent blood samples from players to the best lab in the world yet all tests came back negative for any doping.
Reckon you are kidding yourself if you think other clubs have something to hide either. We are not that smart of a club to have acted on our own, better operated clubs than us have probably just ran their operations better


And here we go again shifting the blame to other clubs now Jim ;)
See how that defence goes for ya "But they did it first"

Not shifting it, we admitted our practices were not great and copped our whack for it.
As ive said all along, I dont care if players had 100 injections per day as long as the drugs are legal, the fact that despite numerous tests being performed and blood samples sent to the best lab in the world and coming back negative are lost on a lot of people.
Perhaps Dank was charging us big $ and injecting players with water for all we know because whatever he used definately didnt work. Cant call them PED's because we have been crap
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Re: Essendon 2014

Postby kickinit » Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:00 am

Just remember him lance Armstrong never tested positive to drug test, even when they where trying to get him. Also the substance isn't a banned substance because it's been proven to be performance enhancing. It's banned because there hasn't been any testing done on it. Meaning no one has the correct method for testing samples. A lot of drug cheats never test positive for this simple fact, they are using substances that the testers don't know about.
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Re: Essendon 2014

Postby Booney » Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:00 am

Jim05 wrote:
daysofourlives wrote:
stan wrote:In mu opinion the AFL, ASADA and Essendon have massively stuff up.


No, just Essendon have massively stuffed up, AFL and ASADA didnt inject the players.
Going by that report above it puts Hird right in the gun as the "mastermind"

So at the height of this whole saga when Essendon were apparantly using large ammounts of drugs the AFL sent blood samples from players to the best lab in the world yet all tests came back negative for any doping.
Reckon you are kidding yourself if you think other clubs have something to hide either. We are not that smart of a club to have acted on our own, better operated clubs than us have probably just ran their operations better


I say whoop dere it is.
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Re: Essendon 2014

Postby Fricky » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:07 am


Not shifting it, we admitted our practices were not great and copped our whack for it.
As ive said all along, I dont care if players had 100 injections per day as long as the drugs are legal, the fact that despite numerous tests being performed and blood samples sent to the best lab in the world and coming back negative are lost on a lot of people.
Perhaps Dank was charging us big $ and injecting players with water for all we know because whatever he used definately didnt work. Cant call them PED's because we have been crap


The problem is Essendon dont even know what the players were injected with. Apparently Dank does but for some reason he is keeping this information secret.

From what i can understand, Essendon, the AFL and ASADA have all stuffed up along the way. But what it comes down to is how it all started and that sits with the Bombers and Hird.
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Re: Essendon 2014

Postby cracka » Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:23 pm

kickinit wrote:Just remember him lance Armstrong never tested positive to drug test, even when they where trying to get him. Also the substance isn't a banned substance because it's been proven to be performance enhancing. It's banned because there hasn't been any testing done on it. Meaning no one has the correct method for testing samples. A lot of drug cheats never test positive for this simple fact, they are using substances that the testers don't know about.

He also knew he was taking banned substances, was actually the instigator of their drug program & deliberately tried to get away with it. I dont believe the players are at fault here & shouldn't be penalised. The club, Hird & especially Dank should cop all punishments.
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Re: Essendon 2014

Postby Fricky » Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:38 pm

cracka wrote:
kickinit wrote:Just remember him lance Armstrong never tested positive to drug test, even when they where trying to get him. Also the substance isn't a banned substance because it's been proven to be performance enhancing. It's banned because there hasn't been any testing done on it. Meaning no one has the correct method for testing samples. A lot of drug cheats never test positive for this simple fact, they are using substances that the testers don't know about.

He also knew he was taking banned substances, was actually the instigator of their drug program & deliberately tried to get away with it. I dont believe the players are at fault here & shouldn't be penalised. The club, Hird & especially Dank should cop all punishments.


Whilst i agree the players are innocent victims here, ASADA and WADA wont let the players get away with an "i didnt know" excuse. If they did then every athlete in hot water can claim this. I would think ASADA will give them 6 month bans, unless Essendon, Hird and Little continue to p!ss them off, then when might see the players get 1-2 year bans.
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Re: Essendon 2014

Postby Red Rocket » Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:51 pm

Like most people id like to see Essendon struggle at the bottom but not at the expense of justice.
At the start of this saga I must confess I judged them as guilty but the more this whole farce has gone on I get the feeling that most of it has been a media beatup and they are scapegoats. I still think the club and Hird acted poorly and that Hird probably shouldnt come back but im yet to be convinced they did anything other than run program that is unethical.
This Harcourt stuff in the last few days is a disgrace and if true it paints a horrible picture of the AFL. they haf an inkling Essendon were close to the edge and chose to send off blood samples secretly but were not prepared to step in and stop it, they waited nearly 12 months until Essendon self reported. By doing this hasnt the AFL breached its own codes of confuct and duty of care to players?
Im no lawyer but ASADA's case is full of holes and I believe Essendon had a couple of wins today and ASADA are required to hand over plenty of documents. I can see this whole case falling over and ASADA having to start again.
At worst players will cop 6 month bans but ive got a feeling they may escape altogether
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Re: Essendon 2014

Postby daysofourlives » Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:54 pm

I think unless someone admits that the players were given something other than what they agreed to the players are screwed.
I cant see anyone doing that especially not Hird or Dank, The litigation would be huge and probably end in jail time to.
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Re: Essendon 2014

Postby kickinit » Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:39 pm

cracka wrote:
kickinit wrote:Just remember him lance Armstrong never tested positive to drug test, even when they where trying to get him. Also the substance isn't a banned substance because it's been proven to be performance enhancing. It's banned because there hasn't been any testing done on it. Meaning no one has the correct method for testing samples. A lot of drug cheats never test positive for this simple fact, they are using substances that the testers don't know about.

He also knew he was taking banned substances, was actually the instigator of their drug program & deliberately tried to get away with it. I dont believe the players are at fault here & shouldn't be penalised. The club, Hird & especially Dank should cop all punishments.


The players are well and truly at fault. The players knew exactly what they where given. Players aren't dumb when it comes to doping, they do sit through programs which teaches them about it and what to do. First thing that rings alarm bells is injections, you can pretty much guarantee anything you need to inject is illegal. Secondly to find out whether or not a substance is banned or not is pretty dam simple and can be done within 5mins.
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Re: Essendon 2014

Postby kickinit » Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:51 pm

Red Rocket wrote:Like most people id like to see Essendon struggle at the bottom but not at the expense of justice.
At the start of this saga I must confess I judged them as guilty but the more this whole farce has gone on I get the feeling that most of it has been a media beatup and they are scapegoats. I still think the club and Hird acted poorly and that Hird probably shouldnt come back but im yet to be convinced they did anything other than run program that is unethical.
This Harcourt stuff in the last few days is a disgrace and if true it paints a horrible picture of the AFL. they haf an inkling Essendon were close to the edge and chose to send off blood samples secretly but were not prepared to step in and stop it, they waited nearly 12 months until Essendon self reported. By doing this hasnt the AFL breached its own codes of confuct and duty of care to players?
Im no lawyer but ASADA's case is full of holes and I believe Essendon had a couple of wins today and ASADA are required to hand over plenty of documents. I can see this whole case falling over and ASADA having to start again.
At worst players will cop 6 month bans but ive got a feeling they may escape altogether


The case won't fall over. 1 thing is ASADA is a government organisation, second thing is Essendon are about to wake up a sleeping giant WADA. WADA won't be to far off stepping in. If Essendon are innocent like they claim then they would never be fighting it in court.
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