NRL and group sex - implications for AFL

[Dogwatcher]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009 ... 567716.htm

I know this is an NRL story but we'd be stupid to think that there isn't a group sex culture in parts of the AFL too.
Having heard a few rumours to suggest this over the years, I can only think it isn't going to be long before someone in the media decides to look at AFL footballers (well at least the NRL hopes so) in regards to this.

Whatever happens, last night's Four Corners is sure to cause some conversation within football communities right across this country.

[Interceptor]

The story last night was essentially an attack on the culture of a group of sportsmen, who like those in the AFL system are highly paid and idolised, but often poorly educated in social conduct and the ways of the world. In the era of professionalism, most clubs are now attempting at least to address the deficiencies their employees possess.

There's no doubt groupies exist and the program contained a segment where one self-confessed Brisbane groupie was interviewed about her experiences and "lifestyle".
She admitted to sleeping with footballers "on her terms", but also to one episode where she was raped, but didn't report it to police.

There's also no doubt some women enjoy the appeal of group sex and more so if with high profile men.
The problems occur when these guys cross the line and treat the woman like an inanimate sex doll, as was apparently the case with Cronulla players and a Kiwi woman a number of years ago.

The common denominator with pretty much all problems across all the codes is of course, alcohol.
If there was a blanket ban, then the number of incidents would probably drop substantially.
That kind of ban is very unlikely of course.

Dogwatcher, one of the people interviewed was Roy Masters who wrote a book covering incidents across the codes:

http://dymocks.com.au/ProductDetails/ProductDetail.aspx?R=9781741667561

I haven't read it, but imagine there's a few AFL stories in there.

[Dogwatcher]

I did see that part of the show with Masters.
Who "didn't say it was a team bonding exercise" but was known to "have that effect", paraphrasing.

Interestingly, these footballers are now going to have to work out when "yes" actually means "yes" now.

[JK]

Watched a bit of the show mate, and it's definitely a problem ... In fact I'd say it has been for a long time among groups of young men, even down at amateur level.

Perhaps if any good comes from these indiscretions, it will be an increase in awareness of acceptable/unacceptable behaviour that blokes around the country (not just the NRL) will start to abide by, through a greater respect for women.

[Dogwatcher]

But are we talking about respect or are we talking about a genuine sexual proclivity?
I don't think, in terms of group sex, it's as simple as talking about respect.
Seems silly but men have been involved in this sort of activity for years, look at war time, and it isn't always rape.
It quite often is about control.
And if a woman agrees to it....

[JK]

Whilst maybe not all about respect, it's certainly got to be one of the prime ingredients .. Group Sex with all willing participants is fine, but where does coersion or contact without invitation sit among it?

[Gingernuts]

The other tough one in all this is who decides who should pay the penalty for these events? And what should that penalty be? Should there even be a penalty if no charges are laid?

I note with interest that Johns is in very real danger of losing his media job over this. Now this event happened 7 years ago and as far as police are concerned there was no criminal activity commited, and yet here Johns is about to lose his job over it. An extremely complicated matter.

It comes down to the blurred line between personal life and professional life. I guess the solution is for the NRL/AFL/other sports codes to come out with a clear stance on the issue (eg. When you agree to a career with us, you also agree to behave a certain way on & off the field. If you do not behave in this way then your professional status will be forfeit for 1 year/5 years/life).

I'm confused myself on this one (it took me 15 mins to get the words right in this post!), lordy knows how the NRL/AFL/other sports codes feel about the whole thing.

[Dogwatcher]

I agree GN, I'm not an apologist for bad behaviour.
But EVERYONE in situations like this need to take responsibility for their actions/involvement.

An example: Woman has an affair with a sportsman, thinks she can handle breaking moral codes in order to enjoy such liasion, despite having a husband and kids, yet in the end, feels used and disrespected by the sportsman and ends up depressed, do we feel sympathy for her?
No, we expect her to take responsibility for breaking those moral boundaries.

Will be interesting to see what happens following this documentary. It seems a sordid, sordid tale and the NRL will have to react in some way. Meanwhile, the AFL will also have to consider where it stands when, not if, such an accusation comes out about footballers.

[aceman]

There are a lot of females out in the world who look forward to 'end of season' footy trips and what that brings with it so let's not kid ourselves that it's a one way street. It's been happening for many moons but notoriety has made this all powerful nowadays.
I am certainly not condoning any of it but boys will be boys and girls will be girls. Hopefully anyway!
Remember the old adage "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" so boys you'd better beware, keep your c^ck in its sock!

[Dirko]

Matty Johns has been "boned" by Channel 9 after the Four Corners program....

[Gingernuts]

Another point to the Johns saga is - did this girl have some sort of pre-existing trauma that led to her putting herself in the situation she ended up in? I know this is a fair generalisation and definitely not always the case, but in many cases the girls who end up getting themselves into these situations have been through some sort of negative childhood experience that suggests to them that this is the only way that they will be accepted by males.

If this is the case, how much of the trauma post 'event' as detailed in the tv report the other night should be attributed to Johns and his cohorts? Would evidence of pre-existing trauma absolve them of some of the responsibility, or would it make what they did worse given that is would suggest that they took advantage of a vulnerable individual?

There are soooo many variables to this issue, and if nothing else the whole situation it is a sad reflection of the modern society that we live in.

As for the 'keep it in the pants' arguement, doing so would certainly avoid many a difficult issue. It seems easy enough, but unfortunately history is littered with the monumental mistakes of those who couldn't keep their clothes on....

[Gingernuts]

Matty Johns has been "boned" by Channel 9 after the Four Corners program....

Stood down 'indefinitely'. There's that word again......

[Q.]

There are some fine lines here, but so very often the guilt expressed by an individual over consensual sexual activity is a by-product of our closeted, traditionalist society. Why is it that a male would not feel shame afterwards if three or four females had group sex with him, but a female in the reverse situation would?

[dedja]

Why can't we just leave it to the legal system to take care of these things?

If MJ is guilty, then let that be decided in the courts. If not, then leave the guy alone ... he's got to answer to his missus.

I would hate to be top sportsman today ... you get penalised twice for each offence or alleged offence.

There's also the double standards. An infamous incident in Adelaide where a lawyer was charged with a hit-run death and has admitted that he drove the car that killed a cyclist, but he ended up getting only a $300 conviction for a traffic offence. He is currently still allowed to practise law, even though he has now been charged with further offences on the original incident. If he was a sportsman, his career would be over.

I feel sorry for the women involved but surely the issue is with the legal system if justice has not been done in this case?

And just to clarify, I do not condone violence or sexual assault against women ... I am married with 3 daughters.

[am Bays]

As for the 'keep it in the pants' arguement, doing so would certainly avoid many a difficult issue. It seems easy enough, but unfortunately history is littered with the monumental mistakes of those who couldn't keep their clothes on....

A stiff c**k has no conscience

[Killa]

It happens in AFL but just wait for a storm to come out as I heard stories about this with one Melbourne club at least.

[JK]

Why can't we just leave it to the legal system to take care of these things?

If MJ is guilty, then let that be decided in the courts. If not, then leave the guy alone ... he's got to answer to his missus.

I would hate to be top sportsman today ... you get penalised twice for each offence or alleged offence.

There's also the double standards. An infamous incident in Adelaide where a lawyer was charged with a hit-run death and has admitted that he drove the car that killed a cyclist, but he ended up getting only a $300 conviction for a traffic offence. He is currently still allowed to practise law, even though he has now been charged with further offences on the original incident. If he was a sportsman, his career would be over.

I feel sorry for the women involved but surely the issue is with the legal system if justice has not been done in this case?

And just to clarify, I do not condone violence or sexual assault against women ... I am married with 3 daughters.

Excellent post mate ... Any sexual activity that doesn't break law shouldn't be judged by the public all of whom will judge by their own standards and tastes, and condemn anything they wouldn't subscribe to themselves.

As a society nearly everything comes back to sex ... From a lifestyle perspective that can be healthy, but usually it's to sell magazines to nosy people.

[Dogwatcher]

Correct.

[Dog_ger]

Why did it take 7 years to come forward?

[Psyber]

There are a number of issues here:

Women who drink too much may put themselves in "at risk" situations, that they would normally avoid.
They may agree to or do things they would normally not do.
Guys tend to have poor judgement in these situations due to the action of the small ancillary "brain" in their other "head".
Guys who drink too much have even worse judgement in such situations.
Some people - men and women - have poor judgement without drinking too much.

Often enough, nobody recalls the absolute truth about the situation, and how it happened, the next day
Over time, memory is reconstructed, and the versions drift further apart.
The solution is to make the smart decision early, and, if genuinely abused, make the complaint early.

I suspect alcohol abuse on both sides of the situation is a major factor, resulting in risky behaviour, poor self-control, and hazy memory.