300 film

[Kaiser Chief]

Just got back from seeing 300, the new movie starring Aussie David Wenham,

SEE IT!!

BRILLIANT!!

[mick]

This film worries me a lot, it could be seen as anti Iranian propaganda, as Persian culture has been very much misrepresented, where the makers neglected to mention that ancient Sparta was one of the first militarist police states, they had a secret police called the Krypteia who dicreetly disposed of threats to the state. It is also interesting that the "come and take them" reply by Leonidas to the Persians when asked to lay down their arms, has been hijacked by the gun lobby and extremist right wing groups, I've even seen the exploits of a Waffen SS group on the Russian front in world war II being compared to the Spartans last stand at Thermopylae by one of these groups, I don't think by any stretch of the imagination that the Waffen SS can be considered as warriors for "freedom".( by the way I went to Thermopylae in the 1980s there's a very impressive memorial there). An earlier film "the 300 Spartans" was made during the cold war in the late 1950s early 60s it's pretty obvious that the bad guy Persians were paralleled to the USSR. There is no doubt without the heroism of the Spartans during the Persian wars western civilisation as we know it could have been very different. It annoys me that this famous battle has been used for pretty thinly disguised propaganda purposes by the extreme right.

[Kahuna]

Be sure you know what you are in for before seeing this movie.It is not as I expected a remake of The 300 Spartans but cgi heavy and cartoonish with literally larger than life fantasy characters.I'm glad you enjoyed it Kaiser and I am not meaning to put you down,rather I am suggesting this may not be everybody's cup of tea.Lots of people seem to love it,to each his own I suppose,just don't go if you expect to see a "straight" retelling of the story.

As for the analogies with modern Iran etc,I wonder what the process of movie making is.Do the makers sit down to deliberately make a propaganda film or do they just make the movie without any deep and meaningful in mind.Do people look for a message where there may not be one?Is it a mixture of all of the above.I think most movies with "goodies and baddies" can be interpreted to fit whatever your perspective may be. For example,modern day Iraqi insurgents may identify with The 300,a small number defending their nation against the invading foreign war machine.

[mick]

I think there are conservative elements in Hollywood that use so called action films to condition people to the idea that wars should be persued and won. These type of films became more numerous about 10years after the defeat of the US in Vietnam (Rocky the one against the Russian guy, Rambo, a lot of the stuff with Steven Segal etc.) to condition people particularly young people into thinking war is a bit of an adventure and they can be winners. Immediately after Vietnam there were a lot of antiwar films, I'm wondering whether antiwar war films will emerge again if there is a US deafeat in Iraq? Your analogy of the the Iraqi insurgents is a good one and valid, however, I think that perhaps the great Islamic warrior Saladin (he fought the crusaders) might be a more suitable role model. My concern is that the demonisation of Persian culture by "300" is a little too convenient considering Iran may well be the next adversary for the US. In fact the Persian empire was anything but a conglomeration of slaves, it was multicultural, where the best people got the best jobs, in fact when Alexander conquered Persia he saw many good things there which he adopted for his Greek empire. It is also interesting that ancient Sparta had state owned slaves called helots who virtually had no rights whatsoever, the 300 who defended Thermopylae, were of the aristocratic elite of that society. Much is made about ancient Greek democracy, however the entire society was propped up by slaves where a tiny minority actually voted, having said that there was much in Greek civilisation to be admired, but I think too many people seem are happy to confer 21st century concepts of human rights and democracy on them.

[Il Duce]

(Rocky the one against the Russian guy, Rambo, a lot of the stuff with Steven Segal etc.) you mean Ivan Drago played by Dolph Lundgren, as for the movie the 300. I thought it was a good movie and although there was fantasy involed basicly the story got told and as for historical accuracy it is about close as hollywood ever gonna get, so i say enjoy the movie and dont read to much into it.

[Wedgie]

Mick, can you explain to me exactly how Rocky 4 conditioned young people into thinking war is a bit of an adventure?
The overriding storyline was that its much better to have two boxers in the sporting ring rather than have 2 nations at war. Rocky made this speech to the applause of the Russians including the Russian head of state.

Also in regard to 300, its just a hack and slash movie about someone's interpretation of the story, they don't even pretend for it to be a factual account.
FFS there's a 10 foot man in it.
Next you'll be telling us Starship Troopers conveys bad ideas to children as it protrays Aliens as evil!

[Il Duce]

yeah i know, i am also saying for hollywood who wouldnt know a fact if it smack them on the face, the was actually 5 correct facts in the movie. 1. there was 300 of them, 2. they were spartans 3. they fought persians 4. it was at themopylae 5. the 300 spartans died. thats the most amount of facts i ever seen in a hollywood movie

[THE CHIEF]

yeah i know, i am also saying for hollywood who wouldnt know a fact if it smack them on the face, the was actually 5 correct facts in the movie. 1. there was 300 of them, 2. they were spartans 3. they fought persians 4. it was at themopylae 5. the 300 spartans died. thats the most amount of facts i ever seen in a hollywood movie

THANKS MR RUIN THE MOVIE FOR ME!

[mick]

Mick, can you explain to me exactly how Rocky 4 conditioned young people into thinking war is a bit of an adventure?
The overriding storyline was that its much better to have two boxers in the sporting ring rather than have 2 nations at war. Rocky made this speech to the applause of the Russians including the Russian head of state.

Also in regard to 300, its just a hack and slash movie about someone's interpretation of the story, they don't even pretend for it to be a factual account.
FFS there's a 10 foot man in it.
Next you'll be telling us Starship Troopers conveys bad ideas to children as it protrays Aliens as evil!

Why was the guy Russian? Why couldn't he have been some other nationality, South African, Australian, Irish, English? The USSR was still in existence then, reinforcement on who the bad guys are.

[Wedgie]

Why was the guy Russian? Why couldn't he have been some other nationality, South African, Australian, Irish, English? The USSR was still in existence then, reinforcement on who the bad guys are.

Yes he was Russian because the overlying storyline was despite the then current hate of the USSR and its culture everyone are humans and they should get along and not have wars but sought things out in a sporting arena.
And how exaclty does this condition young people into thinking war is a bit of an adventure?
Im really eager for an explanation on this one Mick.

[mick]

It's still about using violence to solve disputes. Non - olympic boxing is about pummelling your oponent into oblivion. Why is the Russian like a superman almost a machine? Why does Rocky appear to be the underdog? At the time the propaganda line of the USA was that they were vastly inferior to the military might of the USSR, hence poor little Rocky versus the superman machine from the USSR. Right and goodness eventually triumph over the odds, even the bad guys give some grudging respect (typical Hollywood Schmaltz). Anyone who doesn't think that Hollywood is not part of a propaganda machine to condition young men into thinking war and violence is ok is kidding themselves, almost all the films I mentioned are favourites with young blokes. Iran is facing up to defy the USA, so lets depict their ancient culture as based on oppression and the people as somehow sub-human, Dr Goebells did the same thing against the Jews in Germany, it's just that Hollywood's propaganda is more subtle. Don't get me wrong I'm not anti-American, I'm anti-war without good cause and I'm anti so-called action movies aimed at young men, where life and people are depicted as expendable. Havn't we had enough Port Arthur's and Columbine High events.

[TroyGFC]

might see 300 at mainline this week, or will I lose the stereo effect being in a car?

[Wedgie]

It's still about using violence to solve disputes. Non - olympic boxing is about pummelling your oponent into oblivion. Why is the Russian like a superman almost a machine? Why does Rocky appear to be the underdog? At the time the propaganda line of the USA was that they were vastly inferior to the military might of the USSR, hence poor little Rocky versus the superman machine from the USSR. Right and goodness eventually triumph over the odds, even the bad guys give some grudging respect (typical Hollywood Schmaltz).

Rocky's the underdog in every movie you doofus! The movie showed how the stereotype of Russians being evil is incorrect and that war is wrong.
I'm still interested in as to how this "conditions young people into thinking war is a bit of an adventure?".
You're giving me the impression you've never seen the movie, only watched the first 30 mins of it or if you have it was a very long time ago and your memory's getting a bit blurred in your old age mick!

[mick]

Whatever mate, it's your site

[Wedgie]

Whatever mate, it's your site

I expected better of you mick.

[Kahuna]

Dragging this thread back to say that I had my interest in the events depicted in this movie rekindled even though I didn't like the film.I bought a book "Gates of Fire" (a historical novel) by Steven Pressfield.It is a cracking good read and I recommend it to anybody who has an interest in these things.From reading your posts in this thread Mick,I think you may enjoy this.