SA Footy

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:54 pm**

Since the other AFL reserves threads seem to have run their races, I thought I'd start a new thread to discuss what we can do to stop the SANFL becoming a lifeless reserves competition for the AFL.

Our two options are:

1. Convince Port and the Crows that the status quo is much better than they think. I really fail to see the logic that they will gain a significant advantage by having their players all play in the one team. There are many positives with the current arrangement:
- players get to play in arguably the best competition outside the AFL in serious games in teams that are always aiming to win. Why don't the Port and the Crows see it as a privilege that their players can play in the best attended sporting competition in the world where all clubs are based in the same city? (http://www.safooty.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6499)
- juniors drafted from SA get to stay at their home club making their transition to the AFL easier
- there is the flexibility to move players between 9 clubs if they aren't getting the best opportunities at one club, something which they will lose if all their reserves players are forced to play in the one team (see the Ben Dowdell sitaution (http://www.safooty.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1740788#p1740788)

If having reserves teams was such a superior model, then why was there no big fuss made when the AFL (VFL) Reserves competition disbanded in 1999, and why were Victorian clubs allegedly envious of the models in SA and WA in the early 2000s when interstate clubs dominated the competition (does anyone have a source for this we can quote?). What scientific evidence is there that Geelong and Collingwood's dominance from 2007-2012 was directly linked to them having standalone reserves teams? What's to say that the thinking won't change again in a few years time as the game evolves further?

2. Our second option is to remain firm and only let the AFL teams field reserves teams in the SANFL Reserves, or let them go somewhere else. To overcome the short term financial loss by avoiding the carrots the AFL are dangling at us, the SANFL needs to be very clever in how the competition is marketed and can remain financially viable.

Phil Herden wrote an excellent article a few years ago in one of the SANFL yearbooks comparing the similarities between the SANFL and American College Football. (Is it available online somewhere we could link it to, Phil?). On face value you would think that College Football would attract relatively low crowds and media interest compared to the NFL (the biggest sporting league in the world) as it is really not much more than an under-age competition from which players are drafted. I don't know all the reasons why but due to things like clever marketing, the strong connection Americans have with their colleges, strong rivalries and a much longer history than the NFL, there is an amazing amount of interest in college football with similar crowds to the NFL and multi-billion dollar TV deals. I'm not saying the SANFL needs to copy any particular strategies from there (I don't want it to become Americanized at all!) but take heart that a competition with quite a few similarities to us has found a way to thrive. The death is not inevitable!

The SANFL has to be seen as a viable alternative to the AFL for it to survive, not just a poorer version of the AFL that it will inevitably become if it becomes an AFL reserves competition. There will always be a significant minority of people who don't connect to the AFL for whatever reasons but still love Australian Rules football and the SANFL needs to capitalise on this.
There are many great features of our competition that have kept the crowds relatively high until now such as
- lower admission cost
- long and proud history of clubs and rivalries between clubs
- banter between opposition supporters rather than the one-sided feel at most AFL games in Adelaide which inevitably leads to biased views on the game
- being able to attend all games (or at least the option of attending basically any week) without needing to travel to another city or state.
- connection to local areas - it is important for cities that people find ways to connect to and be proud of their local area to stop it becoming one big soul-less urban sprawl and SANFL football is an ideal way for this to happen.
- and many more that others can add and expand on

It makes me angry that people like Keith Thomas are trying to convince people that crowds will actually increase if they get their way with reserves teams. It seems obvious to anyone who actually understands what attracts people to the SANFL that this won't happen at all and that crowds (and perhaps more importantly passion) for SANFL teams will inevitably decline. The evidence of what happened to the VFL is very hard to ignore (http://www.safooty.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1736865#p1736865 and http://www.safooty.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1736991#p1736991 and you would need to be very foolish to think that the same wouldn't happen here.

I think it is ironic that it is so difficult to knock down a heritage listed building or tree, but that the AFL clubs seem to not care whatsoever about destroying a league that has meant so much to millions of South Australians for over a hundred years and continues to mean so much more than any individual building or tree.

So please everyone, don't give up the fight - make your feelings known to your club and the media so that everyone can see the reality that the logic behind the proposals are flawed and it is clearly not in the best long term interests of South Australia for this to happen.

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:00 pm**

i think you are too late unless you have a time machine to go back to late 1990

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:07 pm**

Ecky wrote:Since the other AFL reserves threads seem to have run their races, I thought I'd start a new thread to discuss what we can do to stop the SANFL becoming a lifeless reserves competition for the AFL.

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:35 pm**

gossipgirl wrote:i think you are too late unless you have a time machine to go back to late 1990

But their had been some signs of significant improvement in interest in the SANFL just a few years ago, take the home crowd of 11827 we got against Sturt as recently as 2008. It is just unfortunate that the SANFL didn't capitalise further on this but has seemed to make some poor marketing decisions in recent years with poor scheduling, lack of advertising and increasing the admission cost, which has left us "ripe for the picking" by the AFL clubs who see us as no more than a reserves competition.

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:44 pm**

Ecky wrote:
gossipgirl wrote:i think you are too late unless you have a time machine to go back to late 1990

But their had been some signs of significant improvement in interest in the SANFL just a few years ago, take the home crowd of 11827 we got against Sturt as recently as 2008. It is just unfortunate that the SANFL didn't capitalise further on this but has seemed to make some poor marketing decisions in recent years with poor scheduling, lack of advertising and increasing the admission cost, which has left us "ripe for the picking" by the AFL clubs who see us as no more than a reserves competition.

only because both Sturt & Glenelg were doing ok at the time.

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:55 pm**

CENTURION wrote:
Ecky wrote:
gossipgirl wrote:i think you are too late unless you have a time machine to go back to late 1990

But their had been some signs of significant improvement in interest in the SANFL just a few years ago, take the home crowd of 11827 we got against Sturt as recently as 2008. It is just unfortunate that the SANFL didn't capitalise further on this but has seemed to make some poor marketing decisions in recent years with poor scheduling, lack of advertising and increasing the admission cost, which has left us "ripe for the picking" by the AFL clubs who see us as no more than a reserves competition.

only because both Sturt & Glenelg were doing ok at the time.

True but I recall a fair bit of media before that game too. And it was a great day weather wise.

We just had 1st v 2nd and there was nothing promoting it at all.

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:03 pm**

MatteeG wrote:
CENTURION wrote:
Ecky wrote:
gossipgirl wrote:i think you are too late unless you have a time machine to go back to late 1990

But their had been some signs of significant improvement in interest in the SANFL just a few years ago, take the home crowd of 11827 we got against Sturt as recently as 2008. It is just unfortunate that the SANFL didn't capitalise further on this but has seemed to make some poor marketing decisions in recent years with poor scheduling, lack of advertising and increasing the admission cost, which has left us "ripe for the picking" by the AFL clubs who see us as no more than a reserves competition.

only because both Sturt & Glenelg were doing ok at the time.

True but I recall a fair bit of media before that game too. And it was a great day weather wise.

We just had 1st v 2nd and there was nothing promoting it at all.

Correct, with all the controversy after their last encounter, they could've pumped the match up to no end.

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:46 pm**

Hi Ecky,

Thanks for the plug .. I found the article you mentoone written for the 2006 SA Football Media Guide. Very spooky given it is written 3 year before I started doing some of these things at the Eagles.

Alas it is not in electonic copy, I will need to retype .. might do it as a serial piece.

Give me a few days.

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:38 pm**

Ecky wrote:
gossipgirl wrote:i think you are too late unless you have a time machine to go back to late 1990

But their had been some signs of significant improvement in interest in the SANFL just a few years ago, take the home crowd of 11827 we got against Sturt as recently as 2008. It is just unfortunate that the SANFL didn't capitalise further on this but has seemed to make some poor marketing decisions in recent years with poor scheduling, lack of advertising and increasing the admission cost, which has left us "ripe for the picking" by the AFL clubs who see us as no more than a reserves competition.

The AFL get pretty narky if the local game is promoted over their two local franchises.

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:07 pm**

On that day both Crows & Power had mid-season breaks on the same weekend.

Has never happened since,

Even now the three week mid season break has

Wk 1 - Power bye but Crows at home

Wk 2 - Both playing but away

Wk 3 - Crows bye but Power at home

So no real clear AFL free weekend or SANFL to be promoted at.

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:07 pm**

Barto wrote:
Ecky wrote:
gossipgirl wrote:i think you are too late unless you have a time machine to go back to late 1990

But their had been some signs of significant improvement in interest in the SANFL just a few years ago, take the home crowd of 11827 we got against Sturt as recently as 2008. It is just unfortunate that the SANFL didn't capitalise further on this but has seemed to make some poor marketing decisions in recent years with poor scheduling, lack of advertising and increasing the admission cost, which has left us "ripe for the picking" by the AFL clubs who see us as no more than a reserves competition.

The AFL get pretty narky if the local game is promoted over their two local franchises.

So fricken promote it on another channel or medium! SANFL is next to useless promoting its brand IMO.

Posted: **Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:33 pm**

spot on mattee g

im not into other social networking facilities myself like facebook, twitter etc, and i am only assuming the SANFL doesnt do enough promotion of the league through these channels.

happy to be proven wrong.

i think the big thing about stopping the AFLSA is reduce the cost of entry tickets from $14 and make it a more affordable arvo out which will then increase crowds

Posted: **Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:44 pm**

mighty_tiger_79 wrote:spot on mattee g

im not into other social networking facilities myself like facebook, twitter etc, and i am only assuming the SANFL doesnt do enough promotion of the league through these channels.

happy to be proven wrong.

i think the big thing about stopping the AFLSA is reduce the cost of entry tickets from $14 and make it a more affordable arvo out which will then increase crowds

Considering that almost nothing comes for free in this world, $14 for up to 4 hours of entertainment is pretty good value. Or if you become a member of your Club it really is a bargain at about $8 a game. All clubs are on facebook and twitter as well as online websites so without the megabucks of the other code what else would you like them to do?

Posted: **Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:35 pm**

Ecky wrote:
gossipgirl wrote:i think you are too late unless you have a time machine to go back to late 1990

But their had been some signs of significant improvement in interest in the SANFL just a few years ago, take the home crowd of 11827 we got against Sturt as recently as 2008. It is just unfortunate that the SANFL didn't capitalise further on this but has seemed to make some poor marketing decisions in recent years with poor scheduling, lack of advertising and increasing the admission cost, which has left us "ripe for the picking" by the AFL clubs who see us as no more than a reserves competition.

Was at that game as an interested neutral.

But you can get as angry as you like about Keith Thomas' views on potential crowd increases. Fact remains, SANFL crowds have been on a gradual decline and no one has raised any meaningful suggestion as to how to arrest the slide. Maintaining the status quo certainly wont do it.

Posted: **Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:40 pm**

beenreal wrote:
Ecky wrote:
gossipgirl wrote:i think you are too late unless you have a time machine to go back to late 1990

But their had been some signs of significant improvement in interest in the SANFL just a few years ago, take the home crowd of 11827 we got against Sturt as recently as 2008. It is just unfortunate that the SANFL didn't capitalise further on this but has seemed to make some poor marketing decisions in recent years with poor scheduling, lack of advertising and increasing the admission cost, which has left us "ripe for the picking" by the AFL clubs who see us as no more than a reserves competition.

Was at that game as an interested neutral.

But you can get as angry as you like about Keith Thomas' views on potential crowd increases. Fact remains, SANFL crowds have been on a gradual decline and no one has raised any meaningful suggestion as to how to arrest the slide. Maintaining the status quo certainly wont do it.

But ur wrong beenreal crowds haven't been on a gradual decline, at worse they have been on par since 2000 If not greater, so u can stop posting your tripe that its in decline the facts are there for u!!!!

Port powers crowds have been on a much bigger decline, close to 40% down so maybe he should worry about that before he worries about the SANFL steady attendances.

Ps watch beenreal ignore the facts and figures and go off on some other rant

Or did you get them from the same bloke who told u about that magic 80% :lol:

Posted: **Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:02 pm**

whufc wrote:
beenreal wrote:
Ecky wrote:
gossipgirl wrote:i think you are too late unless you have a time machine to go back to late 1990

But their had been some signs of significant improvement in interest in the SANFL just a few years ago, take the home crowd of 11827 we got against Sturt as recently as 2008. It is just unfortunate that the SANFL didn't capitalise further on this but has seemed to make some poor marketing decisions in recent years with poor scheduling, lack of advertising and increasing the admission cost, which has left us "ripe for the picking" by the AFL clubs who see us as no more than a reserves competition.

Was at that game as an interested neutral.

But you can get as angry as you like about Keith Thomas' views on potential crowd increases. Fact remains, SANFL crowds have been on a gradual decline and no one has raised any meaningful suggestion as to how to arrest the slide. Maintaining the status quo certainly wont do it.

But ur wrong beenreal crowds haven't been on a gradual decline, at worse they have been on par since 2000 If not greater, so u can stop posting your tripe that its in decline the facts are there for u!!!!

Port powers crowds have been on a much bigger decline, close to 40% down so maybe he should worry about that before he worries about the SANFL steady attendances.

Ps watch beenreal ignore the facts and figures and go off on some other rant

It's always the same. There's no response without referring to Port Adelaide.

SANFL crowds were up by around 10% on 2010, 5% in 2011, down by 3% in 2012 and sadly I don't reckon 2013 is going to support your cause.

But don't worry, I'm sure that will be all Port Adelaide's fault too.

Posted: **Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:03 pm**

keep going ...10 to go!

Posted: **Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:05 pm**

Beenreal, I would love to see where u got those figures from, not saying you don't but i haven't been able to find the last 2 years figures on the web.

I'f you have them can u please produce them so I can use them for personal records

Posted: **Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:57 pm**

CENTURION wrote:
Ecky wrote:
gossipgirl wrote:i think you are too late unless you have a time machine to go back to late 1990

But their had been some signs of significant improvement in interest in the SANFL just a few years ago, take the home crowd of 11827 we got against Sturt as recently as 2008. It is just unfortunate that the SANFL didn't capitalise further on this but has seemed to make some poor marketing decisions in recent years with poor scheduling, lack of advertising and increasing the admission cost, which has left us "ripe for the picking" by the AFL clubs who see us as no more than a reserves competition.

only because both Sturt & Glenelg were doing ok at the time.

jealous there gaz?

Posted: **Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:49 pm**

beenreal wrote:
whufc wrote:
beenreal wrote:Fact remains, SANFL crowds have been on a gradual decline and no one has raised any meaningful suggestion as to how to arrest the slide. Maintaining the status quo certainly wont do it.

But ur wrong beenreal crowds haven't been on a gradual decline, at worse they have been on par since 2000 If not greater, so u can stop posting your tripe that its in decline the facts are there for u!!!!

Port powers crowds have been on a much bigger decline, close to 40% down so maybe he should worry about that before he worries about the SANFL steady attendances.

SANFL crowds were up by around 10% on 2010, 5% in 2011, down by 3% in 2012 and sadly I don't reckon 2013 is going to support your cause.

I cant see how an increase of 10% and 5% followed by a drop of 3% is a gradual decline. Particularly when we have two of the better supported teams in Sturt and Glenelg not going that great on the field.

Using the Power drop in crowds as a benchmark is fair enough considering we are talking the SA football market. With the Crows, you would have to say that they are in a steady decline since 2007, with last year being a relatively successful year increasing crowds on average by about 2000 per game.

So if we were comparing relative decline in crowds, the AFL teams are the concern. With their media saturation, if the AFL clubs cant keep on increasing crowds, well I suppose the SA Public will just have to build them a new stadium. Would be nice to have that sort of support for our measly 10,000 supporters each week.

CROWS average home crowds (source footywire website)
Year Average
2013 33,303
2012 37,055
2011 35,020
2010 35,764
2009 39,767
2008 40,428
2007 41,992
2006 43,056
2005 43,465
2004 39,879
2003 44,034
2002 43,774
2001 39,627
2000 38,470
1999 39,393
1998 46,656
1997 46,731
1996 39,428
1995 38,597
1994 42,863
1993 47,050
1992 38,248
1991 40,530

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