AFL Reserves Comp could challenge State Leagues

[Squawk]

I have to say I have really enjoyed reading Jai Bednall's "Monday Morning Centreman" column each week - http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/monday-morning-centreman-rd-3/story-e6freckc-1225852462851. Full credit to Jai and his employer.

However, he is right when it comes to the scary prospect of the AFL launching a national reserves competition. If they do that, the SANFL competition will be in all sorts of strife. Here's what Jai had to say about it.

SANFL UNDER THREAT

The back page of WA's The Sunday Times made for scary reading for SANFL fans on the weekend.

The story outlined the growing prospect of a national AFL reserves competition, which could be approved before the end of this season.

If it goes ahead (West Coast CEO Trevor Nisbett believes it is inevitable) it would result in a massive shake-up for all state league competitions.

In essence, instead of having their players divided among the SANFL clubs, the Crows and Power would each have a seconds side that competed against the rest of their AFL rivals each week.

Their lists would need to be extended, further draining the talent stocks of the SANFL.

And given the SANFL holds the licenses for both South Australian AFL clubs, the reserves competition (which could cost up to $2 million a season) would put a massive financial strain on SA football, given these sides would be flying around the country every second week.

Nisbett said he would prefer to have the Eagles seconds playing in the WAFL.

Although this option would be unlikely, it too would drastically affect the SANFL if adopted by the Crows and/or Power.

The competition would change forever.

Would the SANFL become an 11 team competition?

Where would the players on the Crows or Power's list that weren't making the seconds play?

My head hurts just thinking about it.

The Sunday Times reported that all AFL chief executives are expected to be briefed on the proposal at a meeting in Melbourne later this month.

Watch this space.

My head hurts just thinking about it too.

[whufc]

Please SANFL just leave it the way it is.

[on the rails]

If an AFL Reserves comp came in - all the lists would have to be extended just to cover for a few injuries let alone the injury list some clubs have. Over a season this would add a massive financial strain in addition to the additional travel costs.

If you take the Crows presently and their extended injury list, they would be struggling to find half a team to field a ressies side?

Where would these players come from to "bog up" the lists to enable clubs to field stand alone ressies sides - out of the local comps no doubt! In the case of the Crows and Power, whether they played stand alone Ressies sides in the SANFL or in an "AFL" Reserves Comp, they will still need to add significant numbers to their lists to ensure they could field 2 sides each week.

Also do those current VFL clubs that do not have stand alone Ressies sides playing in the VFL have to also go out and set up specific ressies sides and extend their lists?

This proposed idea could really impact and damage the SANFL and WAFL IMO!

[Squawk]

Would the Port Power seek to rescue the Magpies by advocating the Magpies transition to being a Power reserves side?

[FlyingHigh]

The Sunday Times reported that all AFL chief executives are expected to be briefed on the proposal at a meeting in Melbourne later this month.

Who would get the final say on it? Would it be put to a vote of the AFL clubs? If so, and given everything the SANFL clubs have given up over the years, I'd be spewing that the future of the SANFL is up to the vote of clubs that don't deserve to be in the AFL.

It really is one or the other, isn't it? Vibrant local leagues or an AFL reserves.

[MightyEagles]

When Adelaide 1st came in the Victorian sides still had their Reseves side as did Sydney and I think WCE also had a reserves side but I could be wrong.

[Aerie]

If this happened, best case scenario would be AFL clubs keeping the current amount of players in a squad (48 or whatever it is including rookies) and then supplementing their list with players from a designated zone. At least this would mean the best of the SANFL wouldn't be taken to fill spots 45-70 on AFL lists around the country. Although this would make it harder to recruit interstate players - who have made such an impact on the SANFL over the last 15 years or so.

Power take over the Magpies and supplement their list with Port Magpies current metro zone and the Crows become the 10th SANFL team and supplement their list with Port Magpies old country zone.

[SimonH]

SANFL lovers can say 'thanks!' to the AFL Players Association who are dead-set against extended player lists because they fear (probably wrongly, but that's another debate) that it would dilute average player payments, i.e. $6 million (or whatever the cap now is) would need to be divided 55 ways rather than 45 ways.

I think that the poorer AFL clubs (Dogs, Pahhhhr, North Melbourne, Melbourne) would also be dead against a national reserves comp for the equal and opposite reason: it would be an additional cost (not just salaries: additional coaching, administration, medical, travel etc) that they can't afford (unless it was accompanied by AFL grants covering them for it).

Given that the AFL has picked 2 huge battles for 2011 and ongoing-- Gold Coast and Western Sydney-- that will cost tens of millions and well over a decade before they can hope to be self-sustaining, for the AFL to spend huge wads of cash on (what it regards as) 2nd tier footy, which will have basically no impact on the chances of the GC and WS ventures succeeding (and also no impact on the value of the all-important 2012 TV rights), would be a very strange use of their money.

[Barto]

The AFL will implode in on itself. As it is, the travelling clubs take as few people as possible and have local staff in each city to help out when they're there, adding in a reserves side isn't financially viable.

Nisbett thinks it's inevitable because it's his idea and he's been told to get stuffed. The Eagles cant even field a viable side in the AFL at the moment let alone having a reserves team.

[Tiger Couple]

In the old fassion Reserves Comp that they had from memory everyone had a Squad of 50 players (no rookies) and then the Clubs that had Reserves sides had Supplementary Players that could only play in the Reserves Competition. They would come from the VFL mainly as it was mainly Victorian Clubs that had them.

I can see why the Clubs would want so they can manage all there players and do what they want with them.

But the down falls would be:
Can't play them as Curtain Raisers at MCG or Ethiad Stadium as they wouldn't stand up to double the amount games.
It will not create enough revenue to pay for itself, so they will need to bankroll it somehow.

I guess the NRL have a Under 20 or 23 comp that runs inline as Curtain Raisers and they can afford it, so maybe the AFL could manage to do it.

Even if the AFL set up and Under Age Reserves Comp allowed so many overage players it is still going to cost money but maybe not as much.

One would hope this is a pipe dream and never comes about as it would spell the end of SANFL footy as we know it.

[Gravel]

If this does happen I wonder if any of the existing SANFL clubs would consider an alliance with the Crows.
Financial security underpinned by the Crows $30m+ annual turnover, additional supporters/revenue at games etc.
Some potential interesting discussions coming up.

[LPH]

I say... "Who cares?"

The SANFL has to evolve anyway, in order to stay viable over the next 30 odd years.
In terms of 'player drain' - stiff s**t.
The impact will be felt by other competitions such as SAAFL, SFL because the added players required by the SANFL clubs will probably come from there.

I think it will be a GOOD thing because the so called 'salary cap' is a joke as it is @ present.
I would hazzard a guess that most (if not ALL, & yes mine too) are over their 'financial constraints' EVERY season. - Perhaps this will FORCE clubs to 'pull in the reins' financially.

It could well result in the competition RETURNING to it's roots - players playing for the 'jumper' & NOT the dollar. - It could also result (down the track) into the evolution of the SANFL competition becoming the "1st Division" of a Statewide competition with promotion & relegation battles... Just imagine, Eagles playing Port Round 22 for the right to finish 8th & 'stay up', while the winner between Broadview & Goodwood Saints in Div 2 GF, getting the added financial incentive of PROMOTION to the SANFL, the next season!

One of the great attractions of European Football is that the ENTIRE season for a club that is NOT having a good year, doesn't end until RELEGATION is AVOIDED
I say bring it on!

[Brucetiki]

In the old fassion Reserves Comp that they had from memory everyone had a Squad of 50 players (no rookies) and then the Clubs that had Reserves sides had Supplementary Players that could only play in the Reserves Competition. They would come from the VFL mainly as it was mainly Victorian Clubs that had them.

I can see why the Clubs would want so they can manage all there players and do what they want with them.

But the down falls would be:
Can't play them as Curtain Raisers at MCG or Telstra Dome as they wouldn't stand up to double the amount games.
It will not create enough revenue to pay for itself, so they will need to bankroll it somehow.

I guess the NRL have a Under 20 or 23 comp that runs inline as Curtain Raisers and they can afford it, so maybe the AFL could manage to do it.

Even if the AFL set up and Under Age Reserves Comp allowed so many overage players it is still going to cost money but maybe not as much.

One would hope this is a pipe dream and never comes about as it would spell the end of SANFL footy as we know it.

The NRL also uses the majority of it's suburban Sydney grounds, with minimal use of the SFS and ANZ Stadium, so the effect the curtain raisers have on their ground surfaces wouldn't be as signigicant as the impact on the MCG and Etihad (Etihad already struggles with the games it gets).

Also, I can't see the AFL allowing the reserves to play as curtain raisers - it was only 6 weeks ago they demanded Centrals to move a trial game to protect the Hamra Homes Oval surface for a NAB Challenge game, and I can't see them changing their tune that quickly.

[Tiger Couple]

[quote="Brucetiki]

The NRL also uses the majority of it's suburban Sydney grounds, with minimal use of the SFS and ANZ Stadium, so the effect the curtain raisers have on their ground surfaces wouldn't be as signigicant as the impact on the MCG and Etihad (Etihad already struggles with the games it gets).

Also, I can't see the AFL allowing the reserves to play as curtain raisers - it was only 6 weeks ago they demanded Centrals to move a trial game to protect the Hamra Homes Oval surface for a NAB Challenge game, and I can't see them changing their tune that quickly.[/quote]

The AFL already plays Curtain Raisers before some games at some venues. I know Glenelg and Centrals are playing a U/18 game before the Crows this week and the Brisbane Reserves play at the GABBA as Curtain Raisers.

[Country Cousin]

Strikes me as another newspaper beatup. I think SimonH and Barto between them have neatly summed up why it won't happen. There is simply no way it could be financially viable to fly another 18 teams around the country, teams which aren't going to generate even a fraction of the revenue needed to pay the bills. The AFL will have all it can handle over the next few years trying to create a viable team in Rugby League's western Sydney heartland. The accountant in me can see that being a black hole to dump money into.

[Barto]

In the old fassion Reserves Comp that they had from memory everyone had a Squad of 50 players (no rookies) and then the Clubs that had Reserves sides had Supplementary Players that could only play in the Reserves Competition. They would come from the VFL mainly as it was mainly Victorian Clubs that had them.

This another point, we have it in the SANFL and WAFL. If there's a full squad with few injuries, then extra ressies players drop back to the ammos. If the AFL teams have a player or two left over in their reserves squad.. where do they drop back to? The SANFL of course and so it begins again.

Stupid stupid concept.

Hypothetically if it were to happen, the SANFL could survive it because why would a player be a top up player in an AFL reserves side when they can get some coin playing SANFL as the SANFL clubs have their external revenue streams and a higher salary cap.

The WAFL, however, would be over. Not just decimated. Dead. Buried. Goneski... and this is why it will not happen here. Woosha and Nisbett are being told well and truly where the hell they can go.

It's probably just a deflection tactic on how crap the Eagles are at the moment. They're trying to blame everyone else.

[Brucetiki]

The AFL already plays Curtain Raisers before some games at some venues. I know Glenelg and Centrals are playing a U/18 game before the Crows this week and the Brisbane Reserves play at the GABBA as Curtain Raisers.

1. Curtain raisers are rare at AAMI (about 5-6 a year).
2. The Gabba only gets 11 games per year, so the impact reserves have on the Gabba compared to say an MCG or Etihad (with their 40+ game per year each) would be vastly different.

[darley16]

AFL clubs and their obligations to SANFL clubs and vice versa

Wednesday 14th April - By Ronny's Blog



The David Rodan situation at Norwood last week has given rise to the issues that affect SANFL clubs with how they manage the AFL players assigned to them again.

It is not the fault of the Power in this situation as they did stipulate how much time Rodan could play and Norwood chose to play him, but other examples have compromised the clubs in the past.

In Melbourne we have clubs like Collingwood and Geelong having their own VFL teams, which means they can use their players anyway they wish.

What we have here though are clubs who can’t play all of their players because of injury or not having enough on their list, needing to bring in top up players from local competitions.

This does dilute the competition and as some of the VFL players in the SANFL now can attest to, make the standard quite poor as well as having very little crowd participation.

The VFL clubs who are aligned are made up predominantly of AFL players who tend to look after their own self interests rather than those of the team and often the VFL players in the squad are used sparingly or not at all.

The better VFL clubs are those that can manage the AFL and VFL players best and promote some passion amongst them.

We also have in the same competition two clubs, Port Melbourne and Frankston, who are completely stand alone with no AFL allegiance.

As you can understand there is little tribal or suburban rivalry, certainly nothing compared to the SANFL anyway and its structure is nothing at all like our own.

Our competition is the envy of all state leagues with its rich history, traditions and rivalries.

The strong passionate crowd support is a feature of the SANFL competition too.

We have some people who would like to see that disappear for the sake of a few interests from the AFL clubs but the people who know in the AFL hierarchy understand how lucky we are to have a competition where the players can go back and be fully tested.

The question to be asked I guess is; would we like to have a situation where the two Adelaide AFL clubs have their own teams and can manage them totally?

They would run the risk of having them weakened significantly when injuries occur.

(Could you imagine the Crows team at the moment if they had 12 to 14 suburban footballers in their SANFL team) but would have total control.

Or do we want a competition as we have, with the AFL players topping up the SANFL lists, albeit predominantly under the SANFL clubs whims, but adding to the spectacle?

The other point to consider in these days of heavy budgeting, is the cost that the AFL clubs would have if they had to provide a team in the SANFL as well as the AFL on a weekly basis.

The topic is quite a talking point at the moment with the Port Magpies fighting for survival too of course, but I know what type of competition I would prefer, having been to several underwhelming VFL games in recent times.

I still remember seeing South play Sturt in the 1966 in front of over 15,000 people at Unley.

For the odd occasion that someone is put out because of the circumstances in our town, I reckon it is far preferable to anything else that may happen and continues to make us unique.

That is my opinion anyway and I reckon a lot of other people like the chance to barrack for their AFL club as well as their SANFL team which would be jeopardized if we were to change too.

Ron Fuller

[Barto]

I still remember seeing South play Sturt in the 1966 in front of over 15,000 people at Unley.

How old is Ron Fuller anyway?

[Bluedemon]

The AFL already plays Curtain Raisers before some games at some venues. I know Glenelg and Centrals are playing a U/18 game before the Crows this week and the Brisbane Reserves play at the GABBA as Curtain Raisers.

1. Curtain raisers are rare at AAMI (about 5-6 a year).
2. The Gabba only gets 11 games per year, so the impact reserves have on the Gabba compared to say an MCG or Etihad (with their 40+ game per year each) would be vastly different.

nearly every game this year will have a curtain raiser of sort being played, some games are being played after the AFL game is over.