SA Footy

Went to 2 games on the weekend (west v north and glenelg v eagles) and thought the umpiring was an absolute disgrace in both games. (sounds like it wasnt much better in the central v sturt game) It really has declined this season and unless it is fixed, people are going to walk away in droves like they do the AFL.

are the rules that difficult to determine? Are they that grey? Why do they get mis-interpreted so differently?

Its not good but IMHO its a lot better than it was 2 to 4 years ago.
The umpiring is of a higher standard than the player's skills too IMHO.

bloods08 wrote: It really has declined this season and unless it is fixed, people are going to walk away in droves like they do the AFL.

A tad melodramatic don't you think?

I expect a ton of hate mail for my 2 cents worth but here goes.

Yes, umpires are human so they make mistakes, but so do players and coaches. I may be completely wrong, but I'm reasonably sure that they go out each time and try to umpire each decision on its merits.

It has always intrigued me when people look at the stats and complain about the number of free kicks awarded to either team. Now I've never seen anything anyway in the Laws of the Game that says that the main job of an umpire is to ensure that both teams get the same number of free kicks per match.

If one team gets 25 free kicks and the opposition gets 5, does that mean that the umpires were baised and had a bad match? Well, on that stat alone, it's impossible to know. Which team was consistently in front, which team was consistently under the pack getting the hard ball, which team had more discipline? The only way to determine whether the umpires have performed to standard is to review every decision on it's merits, nor by baised supporters who are sometimes 100m away from the incidents.

Yes, I'll get annoyed and utter the odd profanity when a decision goes against my team, but once that's over I get on with watching the game and forget about it ... if I keep harping on and on about it it isn't going to change the decision so why bother?

Anyway, I've always believed that in the absolute vast majority of cases, the result of a match is dictated by the players on the ground. If the umpires seem to have given some bad decisions, then so be it, it's a part of the game and why worry about something you can't control at the time.

That being said, there is nothing wrong with putting umpires under scrutiny and reviewing their performances in a considered manner to ensure that they are consistent and are applying the interpretation of the Laws in the correct manner and in the spirit that they were intended.

Anyway, everyone who pays their $10 is entitled to do what they like at the ground (so long as it's legal), and umpire bashing has been a sub-sport of football since Jesus was a lad so that won't change, so I know I'm in a very small minority.

Anyway, to answer the original statement (I've nearly forgotten what it was), I very much doubt that the umpiring in a match will have a lasting negative effect on true SANFL supporters who will continue to support the great game.

Answer one question - have you ever been happy with the umpires?

Umpire bashing happens every year, best advice is worry about things you can control, dont do your head in by worrying about the umpires, yes I have a yell at them but 10 seconds later Ill move onto the next contest...Im done worrying about them and I enjoy the game so much more

The problem with umpiring these days is the number of them out there.
If you look at past games with either 1 or 2 umpires the standard of play was much higher and just as quick.
Three umpires can not apply their complete concentration on the play when they have to constantly also be aware of their companions position and signal to each other tapping their asses.
Bring back a two umpire system if quality umps are in such short supply that you have to use juniors such as Deboy (who was a disgrace to the game)
Where are the quality umpires like Ducker, Agent, Bennett etc who were super fit and able to officiate with competently over the whole field without the need to be twiddling their thumbs down one end whilst getting cold and switched off to the game.

The umpiring standard is appalling. This rubbish about umpires are going to make mistakes like players do - umpires aren't trying to execute physical skills at pace under physical, body pressure. They're applying rules and interpretations. They seem to have no feel for the game at all and it's about time the umpires' coach was made accountable. They are consistently not up to the standard required and it hurts the competition.

Geez the West supporters are upset by the umpiring this week!

dedja wrote:

bloods08 wrote: It really has declined this season and unless it is fixed, people are going to walk away in droves like they do the AFL.

A tad melodramatic don't you think?

I expect a ton of hate mail for my 2 cents worth but here goes.

Yes, umpires are human so they make mistakes, but so do players and coaches. I may be completely wrong, but I'm reasonably sure that they go out each time and try to umpire each decision on its merits.

It has always intrigued me when people look at the stats and complain about the number of free kicks awarded to either team. Now I've never seen anything anyway in the Laws of the Game that says that the main job of an umpire is to ensure that both teams get the same number of free kicks per match.

If one team gets 25 free kicks and the opposition gets 5, does that mean that the umpires were baised and had a bad match? Well, on that stat alone, it's impossible to know. Which team was consistently in front, which team was consistently under the pack getting the hard ball, which team had more discipline? The only way to determine whether the umpires have performed to standard is to review every decision on it's merits, nor by baised supporters who are sometimes 100m away from the incidents.

Yes, I'll get annoyed and utter the odd profanity when a decision goes against my team, but once that's over I get on with watching the game and forget about it ... if I keep harping on and on about it it isn't going to change the decision so why bother?

Anyway, I've always believed that in the absolute vast majority of cases, the result of a match is dictated by the players on the ground. If the umpires seem to have given some bad decisions, then so be it, it's a part of the game and why worry about something you can't control at the time.

That being said, there is nothing wrong with putting umpires under scrutiny and reviewing their performances in a considered manner to ensure that they are consistent and are applying the interpretation of the Laws in the correct manner and in the spirit that they were intended.

Anyway, everyone who pays their $10 is entitled to do what they like at the ground (so long as it's legal), and umpire bashing has been a sub-sport of football since Jesus was a lad so that won't change, so I know I'm in a very small minority.

Anyway, to answer the original statement (I've nearly forgotten what it was), I very much doubt that the umpiring in a match will have a lasting negative effect on true SANFL supporters who will continue to support the great game.

I think you make a lot of sense, and agree with your thoughts.

I doubt I'll bother with the SANFL after this season. I joined CDFC after our 78 point loss to Port in 2000 (Round 2), prior to any CD success in the Big Dance. Having recently relived replays of the 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004 & 2005 GFs there is no doubt that the standard (and more importantly style) of play at SANFL level has changed - not for the better IMHO. I feel a bit for Shane and the Umpires - they've had to get used to stupid rule changes, greyer definitions, the number of them out on the park - ultimately leading to inconsistencies, and players both milking (playing for frees, not attacking the ball) and clumsier/less effective in their tackling quality. I'm thankful we have Andrew Hayes, he's a pleasure to watch as a defender and attack in his tackling style.

They make mistakes, but I also believe (Harrigan like from his NRL days) that umpires at times try to 'make a statement' at certain players, and teams. I'm sure we've all seen days where only one side gets rewarded for what appears to be the same thing for both sides.

60+ frees at the recent CD vs WWT game signalled the death knell for this Piscean.

Anyway, the game resembles little of what I went to watch in the earlier part of the decade - for the worse. While I wish the Dogs success, this I suspect will be my last sponsorship and support of CD and the SANFL - not however due solely to umpiring.

ST...

The umpiring at Noalunga yesterday was the worst I have seen in 45 yrs of watching sanfl.. Port 29 frees, South 12 and that was the frees they paid, not the ones' they missed.

blueandwhite wrote:The umpiring at Noalunga yesterday was the worst I have seen in 45 yrs of watching sanfl.. Port 29 frees, South 12 and that was the frees they paid, not the ones' they missed.

It was a shocker. In a game where the tackle count was 43/47 South/Port and each team played better footy for a half each, it's a bit hard to come up with any other explanation for the difference in frees.

The umpiring standards are declining on par with the standard of football played in the SANFL today. I don't think I have seen one game that I would call "entertaining" this year. Hopefully the finals series is of a better standard, but I'm not holding my hopes up.

The Sleeping Giant wrote:I don't think I have seen one game that I would call "entertaining" this year.

I know exactly how you feel, but coaches are more to blame for that than umpires.

I have made this point a dozen times. It's not the umpires who are at fault, it is the peanuts who instruct them.

I know it was only an U15 game, but when I was a prefect at school, the umpire didn't show up for an U15s game, so I took the whistle. I had no umpire training, but I had a knowledge of football, and a brief understanding of the major rules.

I didn't know where to position myself, etc, all I did was run around following the ball, and watched the game. I paid the free kicks I saw. I didn't think about them, I didn't interpret the player's motivation, if I saw someone get pushed in the back, I paid a free kick.

At the end of the match, both coaches came up and said it was the best exhibition of umpiring they had seen.

My point out of all of this is today's umpires are so caught up with preening and pontificating, they miss obvious frees. When they do see obvious frees, they try to interpret them. They seem to do everything except WATCH THE DAMNED GAME!!!

I have lost count of the number of times everyone in the crowd has seen a blatant free, and the only 3 people who didn't appear to see it were the field umpires.

Umpiring is like everything else in footy these days .. overcomplicated. The K.I.S.S. method is, and always will be the most effective. Just run around, watch the game, and when you see a free kick in accordance with the written law, pay the instintive free.

Sorry AH, I don't mean to be disrespectful, but surely you can't compare umpiring one U15 game maybe 40 years ago with umpiring at SANFL league standard week in week out.

Adelaide Hawk wrote: I paid the free kicks I saw. I didn't think about them, I didn't interpret the player's motivation, if I saw someone get pushed in the back, I paid a free kick.

But I do agree with these comments ... and I'm sure that league umpires do as well.

I think we are in a transition phase with the SANFL umpires. When good experienced umpires like Rowston, Pfeiffer, Williams and to a lesser extent Woodcock come to the end of their careers it is inevitable that as new umpires are bloded (Manikas, Debouy and Ralston) mistakes will be made as the new umpires develop experience.

The other factor we need to remember the SANFL umpiring department have KPIs like the league clubs do to develop AFL umpires. Hence why we see umpires like Debouy and Manikas get league games before they are probably ready for league footy.

Spirit64 and B&W I'd rather see less decisions paid as it means the games has been let go. Nothing worse than an over-officious umpire.

My biggest gripe this year has been how their has been a tightening of the holding the ball rule and that the lack of prior opportunity is being ignored. The best thing about the SANFl circa 2007 and 2008 was that the game was let go and players making the ball their objective weren't penalised unnesseccarily if caught with the ball. The interpretations are becoming too AFL like.

I think the most frustrating thing for spectators is the difference in interpretation between umpires - how often do you see a free kick paid down one end of the ground, then the identical thing occurs a minute later down the other end of the ground and it's not paid.

If both are free kicks or both are play on, at least the players and spectators know what to expect for the remainder of the game.

Hopeful Jelly wrote:I think the most frustrating thing for spectators is the difference in interpretation between umpires - how often do you see a free kick paid down one end of the ground, then the identical thing occurs a minute later down the other end of the ground and it's not paid.

If both are free kicks or both are play on, at least the players and spectators know what to expect for the remainder of the game.

the most annoying thing i find with the umpiers is the stuff they miss not the stuff they pay some of the things they miss stevey wonder could see

I think all we and the Clubs would ask for is some consistency and at the moment there is none from game to game or even umpire to umpire.

I'm sure the 3 Umpires at the Bay Sunday were reading and using 3 different rule books. Williams plays a free kick from 40 metres away that Crosby standing less than 5 metres away looking at it dosen't pay anything (ciccollela got put on his bum by Mules)

Now why is this?
Did Crosby see something both ways so left it alone?
Did Williams take control of something he didn't need to get involved in because Crosby was watching?
Did Crosby just stuff up and Williams did the right thing?

I didn't see the incident clearly enough to make that decision maybe one of you out there did.

The couple of things I hate are the fact they all stand in a straight line down the ground so no one has the boundary side view and the fact they throw/bounce the ball up run 20 metres away and then if its another ball up they have to run back to the pack and do it again. It can't be easy to make calls when running away from the ball. Simply they need to get closier to the play so they can move around the pack easier to get the best view.

dedja wrote:Sorry AH, I don't mean to be disrespectful, but surely you can't compare umpiring one U15 game maybe 40 years ago with umpiring at SANFL league standard week in week out.

Go back and read my comments again. I made that very point ... okay with you? Can I ever say anything on this f***ing forum without people such as yourself finding fault with? Geez!!!

Don't post angry AH!
I think the other factor which I haven't seen mention of is with amount of flooding and zoning now in the SANFL and decline in skills you're going to have more players in a smaller area. Not only crap to watch but it'd also mean more contentious umpiring decisions than you'd get in a free flowing skillful spread out game.