AFL Reserves Discussion...

[Macca19]

Yep it is only fair that the 2 AFL clubs dont play for points considering their salary cap advantage

I dont get this part of the argument.

So does this currently hold stead for Sturt who play about 8 AFL blokes every week including Tambling all year who would personally be on more money than the whole of the Sturt salary cap?

[Macca19]

Getting sick of not hearing any valid information from the SANFL, SANFL clubs or the Adelaide Crows regarding the Reserves proposal.

If Matthew Clarkes interview on 5AA yesterday is anything to go by, Adelaide 100% want an SANFL reserves team playing in the league next year. He was quite adamant that this was the best thing for the AFC.

[CUTTERMAN]

Yep it is only fair that the 2 AFL clubs dont play for points considering their salary cap advantage

I dont get this part of the argument.

So does this currently hold stead for Sturt who play about 8 AFL blokes every week including Tambling all year who would personally be on more money than the whole of the Sturt salary cap?

At least AFL players are spread throughout the 9 clubs, only differing by how many years in a row you've finished bottom and how many players Port or Adelaide have recruited from your club.
Far cry from all of them at two clubs only and a stupid point you put forward.

[am Bays]

Yep it is only fair that the 2 AFL clubs dont play for points considering their salary cap advantage

I dont get this part of the argument.

So does this currently hold stead for Sturt who play about 8 AFL blokes every week including Tambling all year who would personally be on more money than the whole of the Sturt salary cap?

Mate those 8 blokes combined would be on over double the SANFL cap especially when you consider the SANFL cap is less than 5% of the salary cap for an AFL club.

Aside form the reserves debate that is a shocking indictment on how our game is structured finacially nationally (I include the WAFl and VFL players and their payments in that deabte too).

SANFL, VFL and WAFL caps should be set at a minimum of 10% of what an AFL clubs cap is. that means the AFL cap should come down and the other caps shouldl go up to meet that

[Armytank]

excuse my ignorance but do the SANFL clubs pay AFL listed players?

Aren't AFL listed players on an a contract with their AFL club?

[saintal]

Getting sick of not hearing any valid information from the SANFL, SANFL clubs or the Adelaide Crows regarding the Reserves proposal.

Great post. Like you, still waiting on answers to many of those questions.

[saintal]

excuse my ignorance but do the SANFL clubs pay AFL listed players?
Aren't AFL listed players on an a contract with their AFL club?

No.

[am Bays]

excuse my ignorance but do the SANFL clubs pay AFL listed players?

Aren't AFL listed players on an a contract with their AFL club?

No but a nominal amount is placed against each club's salary cap for each game and AFL player plays.

[on the rails]

excuse my ignorance but do the SANFL clubs pay AFL listed players?

Aren't AFL listed players on an a contract with their AFL club?

No but a nominal amount is placed against each club's salary cap for each game and AFL player plays.

$500 per player per game which does make it hard for clubs to work out a total cap spend each year re the AFL players however as I understand it, the league allows corrections through the year due to fluctuations that can occur.

[on the rails]

Based on the weekend teams this is roughly what a Crows or Port reserves side would look like:

CROWS
F: Johncock Orval Klaosen
HF: Mcintyre S.Shaw Joyce
C: Atkins Crouch Grigg
HB: Tambling Hartigan Ellis-Yolmen
B: Siggins L.Thompson ?
Ruck: Dowdell Riley Lyons
INT: ? ? ?
SHORT TERM INJ: B.Martin, A.Graham, J.Petrenko
DNP: B.Reilly, S.Kerridge
LONG TERM INJ: T.Walker, L.Johnston


PORT
F: M.Shaw Salter ?
HF: Young D.Stewart ?
C: Newton Moore Ah Chee
HB: Hoskin Heath Blee
B: D.Butcher Clurey Stevenson
Ruck: Renouf Pfeiffer Mitchell
INT: ? ? ?
SHORT TERM INJ: J.Redden, J.Pittard, D.Cassisi, B.Ebert,
DNP:
LONG TERM INJ: J.Trengove

Those underlined played SANFL reserves on weekend.
Would they beat your SANFL teams side from the wekend (minus AFL players)?
Where would these teams finish on the ladder if they played all year?
Why would any eastern, western, southern, northern or centrally located SANFL club want to field a league side with only 3 or 4 of their own players?

As mentioned many times in this thread, it depends partly on where the top up players come from.

If you apply that "model" and both Teams play in the League Comp, the PAFC are expecting to top their side up with their own "Magpie" non listed AFL players. So take the top 10 on their Magpie list they would have a very strong side coupled with the players you have named plus they could spend quite a bit not only to retain them but to also attract other good non AFL listed players to boost their top up squad.

Now take the Crows, unless they align with an existing SANFL Club, they will not have that advantage re top up players. Can you see the Crows or the SANFL Clubs agreeing to this? No Way!

[Lynwood]

Based on the weekend teams this is roughly what a Crows or Port reserves side would look like:

CROWS
F: Johncock Orval Klaosen
HF: Mcintyre S.Shaw Joyce
C: Atkins Crouch Grigg
HB: Tambling Hartigan Ellis-Yolmen
B: Siggins L.Thompson ?
Ruck: Dowdell Riley Lyons
INT: ? ? ?
SHORT TERM INJ: B.Martin, A.Graham, J.Petrenko
DNP: B.Reilly, S.Kerridge
LONG TERM INJ: T.Walker, L.Johnston


PORT
F: M.Shaw Salter ?
HF: Young D.Stewart ?
C: Newton Moore Ah Chee
HB: Hoskin Heath Blee
B: D.Butcher Clurey Stevenson
Ruck: Renouf Pfeiffer Mitchell
INT: ? ? ?
SHORT TERM INJ: J.Redden, J.Pittard, D.Cassisi, B.Ebert,
DNP:
LONG TERM INJ: J.Trengove

Those underlined played SANFL reserves on weekend.
Would they beat your SANFL teams side from the wekend (minus AFL players)?
Where would these teams finish on the ladder if they played all year?
Why would any eastern, western, southern, northern or centrally located SANFL club want to field a league side with only 3 or 4 of their own players?

As mentioned many times in this thread, it depends partly on where the top up players come from.

If you apply that "model" and both Teams play in the League Comp, the PAFC are expecting to top their side up with their own "Magpie" non listed AFL players. So take the top 10 on their Magpie list they would have a very strong side coupled with the players you have named plus they could spend quite a bit not only to retain them but to also attract other good non AFL listed players to boost their top up squad.

Now take the Crows, unless they align with an existing SANFL Club, they will not have that advantage re top up players. Can you see the Crows or the SANFL Clubs agreeing to this? No Way!

Port SANFL League
taken from positions named in the SANFL together with SANFLnut's post
F: M.Shaw Salter Thurgood
HF: Young D.Stewart Summerton
C: Newton Moore Ah Chee
HB: Hoskin Heath Blee
B: D.Butcher Clurey Stevenson
Ruck: Renouf Pfeiffer Mitchell
INT: Meiklejohn Kulikowski Gray
SHORT TERM INJ: J.Redden, J.Pittard, D.Cassisi, B.Ebert,
DNP:
LONG TERM INJ: J.Trengove


SANFL reserves league players who I left out
Forwards: Grove,
Half-forwards: Raikiwasa
Centre: Kirkwood Rose
Half-backs: L. Slattery, Beard
Backs: Scanlon, Madden
Ruck:
Interchange (from): Watt, Johansen, McKenzie.

This is what port want I can see not only a strong league side but also sanfl reserves. yet I keep being told it will be mostly Magpie players in the SANFL. With this side players will walk at the end of the season.

[LPH]

Getting sick of not hearing any valid information from the SANFL, SANFL clubs or the Adelaide Crows regarding the Reserves proposal. Trying to get my head around it all, so will give it a go and hope those that know more than me can answer some of the questions.

The SANFL has come to yet another fork in the road. What happens from here? The majority, I imagine, would say it makes sense for the SANFL to become merely a feeder competition to the AFL, as all the other State Leagues have become. Accept the Adelaide Crows and Port Power as Reserves sides at league level. The minority can see what has happened in other State Leagues and what has happened to other State Leagues clubs. They know if there is not genuine competition to win a premiership, the competition is not really a competition at all.

Or else, if the SANFL has enough money in the form of SMA and West Lakes land for ongoing funds and AFL license sales for cash injection, it can take the brave decision to go it alone with the support of the SANFL clubs. Perhaps this is unrealistic? I hope not.

Great post Aerie ... have para-phrased, but...

This is exactly the problem, as I see it.
No Max Basheer - John Olsen (who I think has always been 'in bed' with the AFL & Demtripoo, all along).
It is the financial basket case that is Port Adelaide (old & new) that has lead to this point (Adelaide Oval & Licensing Questions).
Of course the Cows want a reserves team - it is in THEIR best interests.
Of course the PAPs want the same, for the same reason.

I would love to see the SANFL 'wash their hands' of the 2 & go it alone.
Sell ALL the land @ Footy Park to developers - including selling the ground (offer that to the Cows), if they don't want it, sell the lot.
Buy Thebarton Oval, develop it into a 1/2 seated, 1/2 standing room Stadium (20,000 capacity), floodlit & build their new League Headquarters their too.
They can share the Administration Areas & the Oval with the Amos (SAAFL) - same way South & SFL share Noarlunga.
Play a SANFL game there EVERY Friday Night - play a SAAFL game every Saturday.
Play ALL Finals there - including a NIGHT Grand Final (Friday Night before AFL GF, perhaps?)
Leave the AFL teams to the AFL to deal with & more importantly fund.
Keep the SANFL title - totally autonomous from any other League & go to an 8 team competition (sorry Maggies but you have to go).

But sadly, with Olsen in charge, I think we are doomed to have AFL Reserves in the SANFL.
I don't trust him & I don't trust the 2 AFL teams - if we were to allow them to play in the Reserves Competition, I fear that once they have their collective feet in the door, then it would be only a matter of time until they forced their way into the League Competition.

[SANFLnut]

Based on the weekend teams this is roughly what a Crows or Port reserves side would look like:

CROWS
F: Johncock Orval Klaosen
HF: Mcintyre S.Shaw Joyce
C: Atkins Crouch Grigg
HB: Tambling Hartigan Ellis-Yolmen
B: Siggins L.Thompson ?
Ruck: Dowdell Riley Lyons
INT: ? ? ?
SHORT TERM INJ: B.Martin, A.Graham, J.Petrenko
DNP: B.Reilly, S.Kerridge
LONG TERM INJ: T.Walker, L.Johnston


PORT
F: M.Shaw Salter ?
HF: Young D.Stewart ?
C: Newton Moore Ah Chee
HB: Hoskin Heath Blee
B: D.Butcher Clurey Stevenson
Ruck: Renouf Pfeiffer Mitchell
INT: ? ? ?
SHORT TERM INJ: J.Redden, J.Pittard, D.Cassisi, B.Ebert,
DNP:
LONG TERM INJ: J.Trengove

Those underlined played SANFL reserves on weekend.
Would they beat your SANFL teams side from the wekend (minus AFL players)?
Where would these teams finish on the ladder if they played all year?
Why would any eastern, western, southern, northern or centrally located SANFL club want to field a league side with only 3 or 4 of their own players?

As mentioned many times in this thread, it depends partly on where the top up players come from.

Spread of AFL players from SANFL sides at the weekend:
Centrals 2
Glenelg 4
North 4
Norwood 4
Port 6
South 2
Sturt 4
West 1
WWT 6

Can change week to week but not as lopsided as some in the media would portray it.

[on the rails]

SANFLNut - re North, are you counting those that played including reserves because we only fielded 2 in the League and 1 in the Reserves?

[The Sleeping Giant]

Chillax people. A lot of you are getting your knickers in a knot for no reason. I'm sure once an official proposal is put to the sanfl, everyone will be able to have their say and some.

[Aerie]

Chillax people. A lot of you are getting your knickers in a knot for no reason. I'm sure once an official proposal is put to the sanfl, everyone will be able to have their say and some.

Really? You don't think the decisions will already be made and then they'll work out how best to put it forward to the public?

[The Sleeping Giant]

Let me just put on my tin foil hat.

The clubs will decide whether yes or no. Have heard that no club has received anything official. Unless a few have climbed into bed with the crows secretly, you have nothing to worry about.

[dedja]

I've got a spare faraday cage if you need it ...

[beenreal]

Getting sick of not hearing any valid information from the SANFL, SANFL clubs or the Adelaide Crows regarding the Reserves proposal. Trying to get my head around it all, so will give it a go and hope those that know more than me can answer some of the questions.

The SANFL has come to yet another fork in the road. What happens from here? The majority, I imagine, would say it makes sense for the SANFL to become merely a feeder competition to the AFL, as all the other State Leagues have become. Accept the Adelaide Crows and Port Power as Reserves sides at league level. The minority can see what has happened in other State Leagues and what has happened to other State Leagues clubs. They know if there is not genuine competition to win a premiership, the competition is not really a competition at all.

Or else, if the SANFL has enough money in the form of SMA and West Lakes land for ongoing funds and AFL license sales for cash injection, it can take the brave decision to go it alone with the support of the SANFL clubs. Perhaps this is unrealistic? I hope not.

Great post Aerie ... have para-phrased, but...

This is exactly the problem, as I see it.
No Max Basheer - John Olsen (who I think has always been 'in bed' with the AFL & Demtripoo, all along).
It is the financial basket case that is Port Adelaide (old & new) that has lead to this point (Adelaide Oval & Licensing Questions).
Of course the Cows want a reserves team - it is in THEIR best interests.
Of course the PAPs want the same, for the same reason.

I would love to see the SANFL 'wash their hands' of the 2 & go it alone.
Sell ALL the land @ Footy Park to developers - including selling the ground (offer that to the Cows), if they don't want it, sell the lot.
Buy Thebarton Oval, develop it into a 1/2 seated, 1/2 standing room Stadium (20,000 capacity), floodlit & build their new League Headquarters their too.
They can share the Administration Areas & the Oval with the Amos (SAAFL) - same way South & SFL share Noarlunga.
Play a SANFL game there EVERY Friday Night - play a SAAFL game every Saturday.
Play ALL Finals there - including a NIGHT Grand Final (Friday Night before AFL GF, perhaps?)
Leave the AFL teams to the AFL to deal with & more importantly fund.
Keep the SANFL title - totally autonomous from any other League & go to an 8 team competition (sorry Maggies but you have to go).

But sadly, with Olsen in charge, I think we are doomed to have AFL Reserves in the SANFL.
I don't trust him & I don't trust the 2 AFL teams - if we were to allow them to play in the Reserves Competition, I fear that once they have their collective feet in the door, then it would be only a matter of time until they forced their way into the League Competition.

Aside from the constant snide remarks about the financial position of the PAFC, "old and new"? (since 1870?) There's the very thing I don't get. The SANFL, in some vain attempt to nobble Port Adelaide, shoehorned another club called Woodville into their zone. The result had very little impact on the PAFC, (apart from costing us Malcolm Blight) but was ultimately catastrophic to West Torrens. And yet you (and those like you) defend them.

Staggering!!

[Reddeer]

It will be so ironic that the AFL Crows created by the SANFL will 25 years later return to the SANFL to use it and destroy it