National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

[Grahaml]

Well said Hondo. Interesting that Swan Districts, Claremont and East Perth never considered that this comp. might compromise their premiership chances and it's surely a greater interruption to their season (because of the greater distances involved) than to the SANFL clubs. Good luck to North, West and Port. The reaction of the top five clubs is lamentable and unfortunately typical of a South Australian 'chip on the shoulder' inferiority complex when it comes to anything associated with the AFL. Tossing away an opportunity to promote your club on a national stage is absurd. McDermott's column about a 'hidden agenda' didn't help much either. How neurotic can you get?

So you believe that there is no way this hurts a club's premiership chances?

And how much benefit to the club will promoting on a "national stage" will there be? How many more members? Sponsorship? I hear that you can't have your sponsor's logos on the guernsey, so they won't be willing to chip in more money, so on that basis surely you have to agree the possible avenues to getting more money are severely limited. Plus I think if anything it's a little disrespectful, but that's not a major point.

[Hondo]

Lol. So all clubs should just go in and hope to lose before it becomes any issue? Backing up after a game can and has happened before, but not an entire team. And not key members of teams, just fringe players who come on for a short time then off again. I think from memory North might play Port on the Sunday. That game being important for one of both sides to make finals is far from out of the question. Would a club be foolish enough to expect to play both flat out? If not, which do they choose not to play their main side in? This is something the top sides (IMHO) were not willing to put their teams through.

Mate, that's all fine. Your club declined. Mine didn't. They disagree about the impact these games will have on their season. So what? We are speculating about what might happen and now into our 5th post each about it.

My issue isn't as much about the clubs declining as it is about supporters like you getting on your high horse about how your club cares more about the SANFL premiership. FFS, every club cares about the SANFL premiership. Last year's top 5 will not be the same as this years.

Why do you feel the need to justify your club's decision so much?

[Grahaml]

Lol. So all clubs should just go in and hope to lose before it becomes any issue? Backing up after a game can and has happened before, but not an entire team. And not key members of teams, just fringe players who come on for a short time then off again. I think from memory North might play Port on the Sunday. That game being important for one of both sides to make finals is far from out of the question. Would a club be foolish enough to expect to play both flat out? If not, which do they choose not to play their main side in? This is something the top sides (IMHO) were not willing to put their teams through.

Mate, that's all fine. Your club declined. Mine didn't. They disagree about the impact these games will have on their season. So what? We are speculating about what might happen and now into our 5th post each about it.

My issue isn't as much about the clubs declining as it is about supporters like you getting on your high horse about how your club cares more about the SANFL premiership. FFS, every club cares about the SANFL premiership. Last year's top 5 will not be the same as this years.

Why do you feel the need to justify your club's decision so much?

Lol. That's what I always believed. So I'll ask the same question again, do you in all seriousness expect to be able to take 2 games in consecutive days at full bore?

If not, I ask again, which will you write off?

I personally have nothing to justify. This competition is all nice, but it'll bring minimal practical benefits and not playing leaves us exactly where we were. If anyone has to justify anything it's the decision to take on another competition.

[redandblack]

graham, apart from your arrogant attitude towards the clubs who are participating, your argument will look silly if any, repeat any, of the declining clubs accept an invitation next year, if the comp continues.

Also, as I keep saying, major sponsors will get exposure, so why are you saying they won't.

As far as the programming goes, let's wait and see about the final.

[nickname]

Those who turned it down realised it would compromise their SANFL premiership hopes. Those who accepted had no realistic hopes of winning the SANFL premiership, but could win this competition. A few wins with some ordinary opposition thrown in and they have something they can actually achieve. Especially knowing several of the best clubs elegible declined, and other major VFL/WAFL sides might end up fielding a B grade side.

All that is really needed from North, Port and West is an admission that since they can't win an SANFL flag this year they went for the next best thing and the story will be complete.

So you're saying Sturt turned it down because they thought it would compromise their premiership hopes. You think they consider themselves a premiership chance this year?

[JK]

graham, apart from your arrogant attitude towards the clubs who are participating, your argument will look silly if any, repeat any, of the declining clubs accept an invitation next year, if the comp continues.

The 5 clubs may well change their mind next season as is their entitlement should they earn qualification .. Perhaps next year the details will be sorted before they are required to provide an answer on their participation? Perhaps also there will be faith the competition has meaning and the clubs have confidence in it's longevity?

[baggy8]

So you believe that there is no way this hurts a club's premiership chances?

And how much benefit to the club will promoting on a "national stage" will there be? How many more members? Sponsorship? I hear that you can't have your sponsor's logos on the guernsey, so they won't be willing to chip in more money, so on that basis surely you have to agree the possible avenues to getting more money are severely limited. Plus I think if anything it's a little disrespectful, but that's not a major point.

That's right; I don't believe that playing in this comp. would hurt a club's premiership chances , and it looks like the WAFL, the VFL and North, West and Port all have the same view. Playing in this competition could actually improve a club's premiership chances given the opportunities to try different players and different tactics without worrying about losing premiership points. It seems to me to present a great opportunity to utilize the bye fully - players that need a rest can have one, those who need or want the run can have one.

I can't see sponsorship as an issue as apart from your club, most SANFL sponsors are local businesses and would gain nothing from exposure in other states. But the clubs could gain a lot - rekindled interest from ex-South Australians, interest from those who've not seen SANFL clubs before, interest from prospective future interstate players who might now think more kindly of offers from North, West and Port than from other clubs.

As for being a little disrespectful, I'm not sure what you mean unless you think I've been disrespectful to those five clubs for crticizing their decision. If that is the case, I would suggest that those clubs have been a little disrespectful to very many of their supporters.

[Royal City]

Can I ask wouldnt it be in the SANFL's best interest to have its best teams (Eagles Dogs Legs) represent the league . Seeing the SANFL commission signed off on the SANFLs involvement in the league.

How much extra would it of cost the SANFL being that total prize money was one of the issues???
Say the SANFL gives an extra $10K for every champions league game competed in. Being the max amount of money required would be $110K- to assure your best 3 teams represent your league. As surely best case scenario for the SANFL comp is to have 2 SANFL teams competing in the Grand Final.

Why wouldnt the SANFL contribute such a small amount of money out of its so called millions to have its best teams compete. Surely the CDFC/WWTFC/NFC have made the SANFL more than $40K worth of revenue since their inception. CDFC competing in last 11 SANFL GF's for eg.

And if we have made the SANFL revenue. Then surely using Port Adelaide precedent/justification we should be able to claim that revenue back as it is basically ours.

I Just cant figure out why this wasnt offered ??? THis is just a question BTW . Not having a crack at anyone.

[Hondo]

It's a good question RC

Do you think those 3 clubs would have accepted the invite if there was more money in it? I'm not sure but they made such a strong point about the premiership chances being compromised (despite using money as one of their other reasons for declining) how could they go against that principle just for monetary reasons?

Genuinie question - would you have preferred to see CD in this competition?

[Go Legs]

graham, apart from your arrogant attitude towards the clubs who are participating, your argument will look silly if any, repeat any, of the declining clubs accept an invitation next year, if the comp continues.

The 5 clubs may well change their mind next season as is their entitlement should they earn qualification .. Perhaps next year the details will be sorted before they are required to provide an answer on their participation? Perhaps also there will be faith the competition has meaning and the clubs have confidence in it's longevity?

What Competition next year? by then the GWS will be in the AFL so what's the need for this comp then?

You know its true

Cheers,

[JK]

graham, apart from your arrogant attitude towards the clubs who are participating, your argument will look silly if any, repeat any, of the declining clubs accept an invitation next year, if the comp continues.

The 5 clubs may well change their mind next season as is their entitlement should they earn qualification .. Perhaps next year the details will be sorted before they are required to provide an answer on their participation? Perhaps also there will be faith the competition has meaning and the clubs have confidence in it's longevity?

What Competition next year? by then the GWS will be in the AFL so what's the need for this comp then?

You know its true

Cheers,

That's nothing more than a theory held by some at this stage, but hopefully you read between the lines of my post to see that theory was addressed.

[Psyber]

SANFL club sponsors tend to be local businesses, and probably don't have much to gain from "national exposure".
In fact they may feel they are getting less value for money as there may be less local exposure if the clubs gave this competition priority.
Thus, only SANFL clubs with nothing to lose in the SANFL competition will embrace the idea of joining this competition as we have seen.
Its purpose is only to enhance the AFL's image of being all there is to football, while weakening that of the state leagues.
And yes, they will drop it as soon as the two new teams are there to fill up the TV scheduling spots.

[Booney]

SANFL club sponsors tend to be local businesses, and probably don't have much to gain from "national exposure".In fact they may feel they are getting less value for money as there may be less local exposure if the clubs gave this competition priority.
Thus, only SANFL clubs with nothing to lose in the SANFL competition will embrace the idea of joining this competition as we have seen.
Its purpose is only to enhance the AFL's image of being all there is to football, while weakening that of the state leagues.
And yes, they will drop it as soon as the two new teams are there to fill up the TV scheduling spots.

Holden, Coopers,Gliderol,Fielders,Mistral,Scotts Tranport....

[westcoastpanther]

SANFL club sponsors tend to be local businesses, and probably don't have much to gain from "national exposure".In fact they may feel they are getting less value for money as there may be less local exposure if the clubs gave this competition priority.
Thus, only SANFL clubs with nothing to lose in the SANFL competition will embrace the idea of joining this competition as we have seen.
Its purpose is only to enhance the AFL's image of being all there is to football, while weakening that of the state leagues.
And yes, they will drop it as soon as the two new teams are there to fill up the TV scheduling spots.

Holden, Coopers,Gliderol,Fielders,Mistral,Scotts Tranport....

Solo

[Hondo]

That's nothing more than a theory held by some at this stage, but hopefully you read between the lines of my post to see that theory was addressed.

That's not a conspiracy theory is it CP?

[JK]

SANFL club sponsors tend to be local businesses, and probably don't have much to gain from "national exposure".In fact they may feel they are getting less value for money as there may be less local exposure if the clubs gave this competition priority.
Thus, only SANFL clubs with nothing to lose in the SANFL competition will embrace the idea of joining this competition as we have seen.
Its purpose is only to enhance the AFL's image of being all there is to football, while weakening that of the state leagues.
And yes, they will drop it as soon as the two new teams are there to fill up the TV scheduling spots.

Holden, Coopers,Gliderol,Fielders,Mistral,Scotts Tranport....

Fairmont Homes are the Legs sponsor bud

[JK]

That's nothing more than a theory held by some at this stage, but hopefully you read between the lines of my post to see that theory was addressed.

That's not a conspiracy theory is it CP?

LOL Well yes that would indeed be one of those .. At least it will be answered in the near enough future

[sjt]

It's a good question RC

Do you think those 3 clubs would have accepted the invite if there was more money in it? I'm not sure but they made such a strong point about the premiership chances being compromised (despite using money as one of their other reasons for declining) how could they go against that principle just for monetary reasons?

Genuinie question - would you have preferred to see CD in this competition?

Money was one consideration. If the money offset some of the downside risk, then quite possibly they would have played. I believe they decided given it was an added expense to the club and potentially reduced their ability to win a premiership, the advantages weren't great enough. It's only going "against that principle" if it were the only reason.
I'm not overly concerned if we played or not. I can't argue against their reasons for not playing. Unlike some, other than the kudos for winning (if they did), I can't see too many significant reasons for joining. Roy's belief that we wouldn't have been able to win the 2010 gf if we had played "properly" in this type of comp. is good enough for me.

[Royal City]

It's a good question RC

Do you think those 3 clubs would have accepted the invite if there was more money in it? I'm not sure but they made such a strong point about the premiership chances being compromised (despite using money as one of their other reasons for declining) how could they go against that principle just for monetary reasons?

Genuinie question - would you have preferred to see CD in this competition?

I honestly dont know Hondo. I dont think anyone can say either way as we dont know enough yet. Im certainly not saying an extra $40K would of guaranteed anything. Im just posing the question.

I understand our clubs position is all I know. The only other thing I can say in my clubs defence Is do people know when Centrals actually start their preparation for the SANFL Flag ????? And how much work is involved by players/coaching staff. The National comp GF was scheduled to be in the middle of this time and the club didnt want to impede its preparation/have a distraction at that important time of year.

ON one hand I would love have been going off on trips to queensland and vics to watch the boys play. But I dont want to sacrifice the trip to AAMI in October for it and the felling after winning it. It simply cant be compared. Maybe some SANFL fans have forgotten this over the years.

Sorry to sit on the fence. Its just even if you read this thread you will read alot of different versions/interpretations of how the comp is going to be run sponsors/prize money etc......

All I can say is the clubs who declined the offer did so by wishing the clubs who accepted the very best of luck. So I dont see why these clubs should be anything but grateful to those who declined. Not angry.

Personally I dont think the SANFL put out a big enough carrot to the clubs to compete. More an attitude of "well if you blokes dont take it . Others will". Instead of working with. And lets face it if the SANFL was 100% dedicated to this comp they would of made sure NFC,CDFC, WWTFC competed in it.

But thats just my interpretation on the info available now .

My only other question is does the money spent by the PAMFC to compete in the nationa league. Come out of their $1.3 mill annual budget set by the SANFL . Or will they find a way/SANFL allows them to exceed that due to competing in the national comp. Just a question yet again.

And I love how people pretend the VFL teams had a choice in the matter.
YOu have got to be joking surely.

[Booney]

SANFL club sponsors tend to be local businesses, and probably don't have much to gain from "national exposure".In fact they may feel they are getting less value for money as there may be less local exposure if the clubs gave this competition priority.
Thus, only SANFL clubs with nothing to lose in the SANFL competition will embrace the idea of joining this competition as we have seen.
Its purpose is only to enhance the AFL's image of being all there is to football, while weakening that of the state leagues.
And yes, they will drop it as soon as the two new teams are there to fill up the TV scheduling spots.

Holden, Coopers,Gliderol,Fielders,Mistral,Scotts Tranport....

Fairmont Homes are the Legs sponsor bud

I know. I just think Norwood, then Coopers....great, now I'm thirsty and will get nothing done.