Crows in the SANFL - Q & A with the AFC

[adelaidefc]

Further to UkFans points

Have the Crows thought that the bigger bodies of the amatuer league may actually not come into effect when they don't have the fitness levels, pace or ability to chase or catch the Crows listed players.

That's not relevant to you. Our proposal is to join the SANFL league comp. If we don't get Club approval, we need to play our reserves somewhere and it won't be kicking the dew off the ground against SANFL reserves teams with the bye. David

[adelaidefc]

David, as an Essendon member im entitled to free entry at Essendon's reserves games that are played at home
Will the Crows offer this aswell or will supporters pay full tote SANFL prices?

This is one of the points of negotiations at the moment.

[whufc]

Further to UkFans points

Have the Crows thought that the bigger bodies of the amatuer league may actually not come into effect when they don't have the fitness levels, pace or ability to chase or catch the Crows listed players.

That's not relevant to you. Our proposal is to join the SANFL league comp. If we don't get Club approval, we need to play our reserves somewhere and it won't be kicking the dew off the ground against SANFL reserves teams with the bye. David

I think it's very relevant as imho the Crows are showing alot of disrespect to both the SANFL and its clubs (yet still expecting them to do use a favour' by saying they are 'above' playing reserves football yet the amateurs suits them

Can I safely say that you won't be drafting footballers from the SANFL reserves this year and instead will be drafting players to the crows list from gepps cross and Salisbury north then

[whufc]

What do the Crows believe is a better option for their reserves teams and why??

Playing in the SANFL or for the AFL to create an AFL reserves comp

I'm really interested to hear your answer to this question

[adelaidefc]

2. If the SANFL ended up like the current VFL would you consider the Crows experiment to be a fail for the competition.

2 The SANFL has always been a better comp than the VFA turned VFL. It (the SANFL) has always had stronger support. The AFC is very confident it will be a success for us and the SANFL.

You didn't answer the question. whufc didn't ask if you were confident of success.

So I repeat for whufc:

A. Would you consider the Crows experiment to be a failure if the league ended up like the VFL?

And I add for myself:

B. How would the Crows define success AND define failure with respect to entry of a reserve team in the SANFL competition?

C. If the reserves team is entered AND is deemed to be a failure after some time, will the AFC make restitution to the SANFL, and how can you guarantee that your club will not simply walk away from the mess?

Love your style.
A: Yes.
B: That will be up to the footy department but I would think they will want a competitive and successful seconds side.
C: Restitution? You need to have a read of the SANFL financial report for a reality check.
The Commission wanted a long term arrangement, which is why the AFC agreed to a 15-year guarantee. If that part of the deal remains, we can't walk away.

[whufc]

Is there not a get out clause that 'it will be reviewed at the end of each year'

[adelaidefc]

What do the Crows believe is a better option for their reserves teams and why??

Playing in the SANFL or for the AFL to create an AFL reserves comp

I'm really interested to hear your answer to this question

SANFL

[sjt]

Hi David

I'm not concerned that your club has decided that they want a reserves side, maybe we'll see if this is a smart decision or a costly waste of time, detrimental to player development.
What I'm concerned about is the impact and benefits to the sanfl and sanfl clubs. Are you able to answer my question on the bottom of page 1 or let me know you're not prepared to?

[Jim05]

David, as an Essendon member im entitled to free entry at Essendon's reserves games that are played at home
Will the Crows offer this aswell or will supporters pay full tote SANFL prices?

This is one of the points of negotiations at the moment.

If the answer is YES then how do the clubs generate this extra money from all the fans you claim will turn up?
We will just end up with a bunch of freeloading Crows members rocking up to the games
The Crows members should be charged full tote for the privelige of watching an SANFL game

[Mr Beefy]

If the Crows dont get a side in the SANFL, do they automatically get to enter the SAAFL, or is it put to a club vote for that as well?

I can answer that one.
The clubs at SAAFL have no say in new clubs entering the comp. it comes down to an SAAFL delegates vote.

You didnt answer it very well, the delegates are representatives of the SAAFL clubs, so any vote undertaken by delegates is a vote by clubs. However, I think, as it stands, the clubs get no say, it is the SAAFL exec committee.

[smac]

David, as an Essendon member im entitled to free entry at Essendon's reserves games that are played at home
Will the Crows offer this aswell or will supporters pay full tote SANFL prices?

This is one of the points of negotiations at the moment.

How are clubs expected to vote on something you admit is incomplete?

Do you think AFC have failed to prepare? Or do you think AFC have failed to pay enough respect to all stakeholders?

I can't see how one or the other hasn't occurred.

[adelaidefc]

David I'm trying to come to terms with the top up players and can't come up with any option which will be acceptable by all parties.

Who do they train with?
If AFC: when will they train & catch up with meetings if not available during work / uni hours?
Proposal says they won't play against their SANFL club. If they are not playing against their club, where will they play?

Hypethetical question: If Adelaide have no big men available to play Reserves in say rnd 13 ( due to injuries) does another player or two get taken from their SANFL team where they've played all season?
I ask this question as AFC said they want control over positions players play in.
If there aren't any squad rucks/tall defenders available, will players be taken from elsewhere to cover?

What about the cash reimbursement grass roots clubs & leagues usually get as players progress though to SANFL league milestones, AFL drafting, AFL selection?
Will junior clubs & leagues still be recognised, seeing as these lads will be taken out of the usual AFL pathway reimbursement system?

Thanks for taking the time to interact.
It's more than Glenelg FC have been willing to do so far

Any pool players will not be full-time with us but any commitments at West Lakes/Adelaide Oval will be worked out by the football department, who won't be expecting constant access. Any players not used by the reserves side would be eligible for their SANFL club.

THe pool would include a mix of player types. If there was a particular requirement to cover a spot, we would need to find an extra but SANFL clubs wouldnt be forced to hand over a player.
These pool players remain the property of the SANBFL clubs. So, for instance, if a Glenelg player impresses with our reserves and gets drafted to an AFL club, the same AFL transfer fees apply.
Cheers, David

[JK]

David I'm trying to come to terms with the top up players and can't come up with any option which will be acceptable by all parties.

Who do they train with?
If AFC: when will they train & catch up with meetings if not available during work / uni hours?
Proposal says they won't play against their SANFL club. If they are not playing against their club, where will they play?

Hypethetical question: If Adelaide have no big men available to play Reserves in say rnd 13 ( due to injuries) does another player or two get taken from their SANFL team where they've played all season?
I ask this question as AFC said they want control over positions players play in.
If there aren't any squad rucks/tall defenders available, will players be taken from elsewhere to cover?

What about the cash reimbursement grass roots clubs & leagues usually get as players progress though to SANFL league milestones, AFL drafting, AFL selection?
Will junior clubs & leagues still be recognised, seeing as these lads will be taken out of the usual AFL pathway reimbursement system?

Thanks for taking the time to interact.
It's more than Glenelg FC have been willing to do so far

Any pool players will not be full-time with us but any commitments at West Lakes/Adelaide Oval will be worked out by the football department, who won't be expecting constant access. Any players not used by the reserves side would be eligible for their SANFL club.

THe pool would include a mix of player types. If there was a particular requirement to cover a spot, we would need to find an extra but SANFL clubs wouldnt be forced to hand over a player.
These pool players remain the property of the SANBFL clubs. So, for instance, if a Glenelg player impresses with our reserves and gets drafted to an AFL club, the same AFL transfer fees apply.
Cheers, David

Do these "top up" players come from other SANFL club's underage pool?

[adelaidefc]

David, as an Essendon member im entitled to free entry at Essendon's reserves games that are played at home
Will the Crows offer this aswell or will supporters pay full tote SANFL prices?

This is one of the points of negotiations at the moment.

How are clubs expected to vote on something you admit is incomplete?

Do you think AFC have failed to prepare? Or do you think AFC have failed to pay enough respect to all stakeholders?

I can't see how one or the other hasn't occurred.

It is called negotiation. The Crows have been in formal discussion with the SANFL. and then the Commission, for more than three months. The model endorsed by the Commission was a negotiated version of our first proposal and it was always going to require more work once the Commission presented it to the Clubs. David

[adelaidefc]

David I'm trying to come to terms with the top up players and can't come up with any option which will be acceptable by all parties.

Who do they train with?
If AFC: when will they train & catch up with meetings if not available during work / uni hours?
Proposal says they won't play against their SANFL club. If they are not playing against their club, where will they play?

Hypethetical question: If Adelaide have no big men available to play Reserves in say rnd 13 ( due to injuries) does another player or two get taken from their SANFL team where they've played all season?
I ask this question as AFC said they want control over positions players play in.
If there aren't any squad rucks/tall defenders available, will players be taken from elsewhere to cover?

What about the cash reimbursement grass roots clubs & leagues usually get as players progress though to SANFL league milestones, AFL drafting, AFL selection?
Will junior clubs & leagues still be recognised, seeing as these lads will be taken out of the usual AFL pathway reimbursement system?

Thanks for taking the time to interact.
It's more than Glenelg FC have been willing to do so far

Any pool players will not be full-time with us but any commitments at West Lakes/Adelaide Oval will be worked out by the football department, who won't be expecting constant access. Any players not used by the reserves side would be eligible for their SANFL club.

THe pool would include a mix of player types. If there was a particular requirement to cover a spot, we would need to find an extra but SANFL clubs wouldnt be forced to hand over a player.
These pool players remain the property of the SANBFL clubs. So, for instance, if a Glenelg player impresses with our reserves and gets drafted to an AFL club, the same AFL transfer fees apply.
Cheers, David

Do these "top up" players come from other SANFL club's underage pool?

The proposal is for 18-22 year-olds, two from each club.

[JK]

Do these "top up" players come from other SANFL club's underage pool?

The proposal is for 18-22 year-olds, two from each club.

So you stoutly refuse to play against these types of players in the SANFL reserves due to lack of size, as it prevents developing your players - But you expect the SANFL clubs to do so?

[kneedeepinthehoopla]

Is it fair to say the second afc side's main aim will not be winning? Instead, developing? This is different from an SANFL's reserves side and purpose. And this being the case, surely it compromises the SANFL competition, given they're not really competing? It also opens a can of worms into the betting industry. Will betting agencies still offer markets in such a compromised league? Will the SANFL lose revenue through this?

Any team we will put out will be playing to win and competing. If you have a young team, there's going to be some development in there as well, but that's no different to any SANFL club with a young group. David

I appreciate the response, David.
I agree the 18 blokes on the park will be playing to win, but I was referring to club and coaching staff itself. Will the club's main interest be to win with it's reserves side every week or just develop for it's side in another league? I'm not convinced...

Look forward to a response to this. And in regards to betting? Correct me if I'm wrong, but do umpires still run around with tab on their backs?

[FlyingHigh]

Gday David

Could you please provide your thoughts on the proposal from another poster that I quoted on page 1 of this thread?

On a similar theme, I don't understand why the Crows are making this top-up player thing so complicated. As I have posted before, would the Crows (and Port) consider having first choice of players the first year out of u/18's? These players would be part-time (work, uni etc) but the Crows would have uninterrupted (by SANFL clubs) access to these players for a full year, after which they go back to their SANFL clubs if not drafted. Crows get to look at players they are not quite sure of rather than gamble on (ie Nick Joyce), the best u/18's are almost at league level anyway, the player gets a second chance under AFL sights, the SANFL clubs give up a little but not a lot. Seems to benefit all as much as possible. Would the Crows consider such a proposal?

[CUTTERMAN]

As it hasn't been answered, I'll ask again. If the AFC is so confident of their supposed 4000-6000 supporters to reserves games why did they refuse to cover the gate for host clubs. As has been mentioned each SANFL club have different setup costs and break even costs. Surely if you've done your research thoroughly and are assured of your supporter turnout this would be a non issue and give host clubs certainty.

[smac]

This is one of the points of negotiations at the moment.

How are clubs expected to vote on something you admit is incomplete?

Do you think AFC have failed to prepare? Or do you think AFC have failed to pay enough respect to all stakeholders?

I can't see how one or the other hasn't occurred.

It is called negotiation. The Crows have been in formal discussion with the SANFL. and then the Commission, for more than three months. The model endorsed by the Commission was a negotiated version of our first proposal and it was always going to require more work once the Commission presented it to the Clubs. David

I completely understand negotiations. Usually a final result is defined before any agreement is made though. My point was asking how clubs can be expected to vote whilst negotiations are ongoing?

I presume you are spending time working out the wording on your response to the rest of my questions and not simply avoiding answering those as you have done with some other questions in this thread?