2012 SANFL Fixture

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Re: 2012 SANFL Fixture

Postby Booney » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:56 pm

How about this.

I'll do a preliminary draw a very,very basic one. Then I'll look at any Foxtel Cup clashes and, if required, I'll just move a couple of matches around to make it fit.Wouldn't be too hard, only three teams are competing in it.

The last three rounds, revolutionary as it may be, I'll probably pit last years top 4 against each other again ( for the third time in the season ) and the bottom 4 against each other. Try and avoid any late season blow outs. Good thinking, hey?

While I'm at it I'll look at any possible clashes with the AFL as mentioned.

Any other wishes, you've got about 5 minutes as I'll have my preliminary draw done by then. ;)
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Re: 2012 SANFL Fixture

Postby am Bays » Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:07 pm

Booney wrote:Any other wishes, you've got about 5 minutes as I'll have my preliminary draw done by then. ;)


Yeah, can you try and rig it so North make the finals, that way we might win one....
Let that be a lesson to you Port, no one beats the Bays five times in a row in a GF and gets away with it!!!
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Re: 2012 SANFL Fixture

Postby Booney » Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:16 pm

am Bays wrote:
Booney wrote:Any other wishes, you've got about 5 minutes as I'll have my preliminary draw done by then. ;)


Yeah, can you try and rig it so North make the finals, that way we might win one....


I can rig it that North make it, but I dont know about you blokes. Even rigging it* might not be enough. ;)
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Re: 2012 SANFL Fixture

Postby Jim05 » Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:25 pm

Booney wrote:How about this.

I'll do a preliminary draw a very,very basic one. Then I'll look at any Foxtel Cup clashes and, if required, I'll just move a couple of matches around to make it fit.Wouldn't be too hard, only three teams are competing in it.

The last three rounds, revolutionary as it may be, I'll probably pit last years top 4 against each other again ( for the third time in the season ) and the bottom 4 against each other. Try and avoid any late season blow outs. Good thinking, hey?

While I'm at it I'll look at any possible clashes with the AFL as mentioned.

Any other wishes, you've got about 5 minutes as I'll have my preliminary draw done by then. ;)

Doing a ripper job Booney.
You have achieved more in a day than what the boffins could in a month.
Its only a 9 team comp ffs, not that hard when you break it down like you have
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Re: 2012 SANFL Fixture

Postby Ecky » Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:32 pm

It actually isn't that hard at all if you have some basic maths/programming skills. I've seriously thought about approaching the SANFL and offering to put together the draw for them, as each year they put together a draw with many confusing features that are clearly not optimal, as discussed here...

All you would need is for the SANFL to give
1) A list of features the draw must have (like foxtel cup constraints etc..., number of rounds in a season etc.)
2) A wish list of additional features that would be preferable to have (like teams have at least 6 weeks between byes or whatever...)

You could then easily write a program that has the first list set in stone, and then cycle through the many (maybe millions?) of permutations of possible draws and rank them all depending on how many of the wish list features are satisfied. (This would probably only take a few hours to run).

Then you could give the SANFL the top 5 or so sample draws, and they could pick the one they like the best (in consultation with the clubs)
It isn't rocket science and there are people who would do it for free...
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We will not compromise the SANFL competition (with AFL reserves teams)."
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Re: 2012 SANFL Fixture

Postby mighty_tiger_79 » Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:34 pm

i like this idea

Ecky Ill approach the SANFL on your behalf as your manager and we will go 95-5% of the moneys paid $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ :lol:
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Re: 2012 SANFL Fixture

Postby Ecky » Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:41 pm

If someone from the SANFL is reading this thread, feel free to send me a PM. ;)
John Olsen, June 2012 wrote:"Reserves teams in the SANFL for the two AFL clubs is not negotiable.
We will not compromise the SANFL competition (with AFL reserves teams)."
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Re: 2012 SANFL Fixture

Postby mighty_tiger_79 » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:06 pm

dont cut out the middle man :(
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Re: 2012 SANFL Fixture

Postby Pseudo » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:08 pm

Ecky wrote:It actually isn't that hard at all if you have some basic maths/programming skills. I've seriously thought about approaching the SANFL and offering to put together the draw for them, as each year they put together a draw with many confusing features that are clearly not optimal, as discussed here...

All you would need is for the SANFL to give
1) A list of features the draw must have (like foxtel cup constraints etc..., number of rounds in a season etc.)
2) A wish list of additional features that would be preferable to have (like teams have at least 6 weeks between byes or whatever...)

You could then easily write a program that has the first list set in stone, and then cycle through the many (maybe millions?) of permutations of possible draws and rank them all depending on how many of the wish list features are satisfied. (This would probably only take a few hours to run).

Then you could give the SANFL the top 5 or so sample draws, and they could pick the one they like the best (in consultation with the clubs)
It isn't rocket science and there are people who would do it for free...


Good work Ecky 8)

I have already given thought to this myself. There are 945 ways any particular round could be drawn in a ten-team competition (treating the bye as a team, and not distinguishing home from away teams). Any entire draw of N rounds can thus be expressed as a point in an N-dimensional vector space over a field of finite integers. The obvious algorithm is an exhaustive search over all 945^N points. This is clearly infeasible.

The search is simplified by introduction of a number of constraints (no two teams play in consecutive weeks, last year's grand finalists play on ANZAC weekend, etc). This partitions the vector space into regions of feasibility and infeasibility. The region of feasible solutions would be drastically less than the size of the space, but still very large - far too large to "cycle through all possible combinations".

A depth-first search of the vector space with severe heuristic direction and pruning might provide a solution in reasonable time, as might a directed random search. I would seed a random search with a "first attempt" done by hand (i.e. what Booney suggests above, or maybe take the draw from a previous season), and progressively perturb this until a satisfactory draw was reached. Or I might simply pick up a text on Operations Research and apply integer programming algorithms to the task.

As a measure of goodness I would take the list of club (and SANFL) requests, weight each one by a factor of "desirability", and sum the weights of all requests satisfied by any candidate solution. The objective surface described by this measure would likely be highly multimodal, but this is actually in our favour; we need not search for the absolute best draw, just for one which is sufficiently good - meaning we might get away with looking at a fraction of the set of feasible draws before settling on one.

Give me sufficient time and money, and I'll do it.... :-B
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Re: 2012 SANFL Fixture

Postby dedja » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:10 pm

Ecky wrote:It actually isn't that hard at all if you have some basic maths/programming skills. I've seriously thought about approaching the SANFL and offering to put together the draw for them, as each year they put together a draw with many confusing features that are clearly not optimal, as discussed here...

All you would need is for the SANFL to give
1) A list of features the draw must have (like foxtel cup constraints etc..., number of rounds in a season etc.)
2) A wish list of additional features that would be preferable to have (like teams have at least 6 weeks between byes or whatever...)

You could then easily write a program that has the first list set in stone, and then cycle through the many (maybe millions?) of permutations of possible draws and rank them all depending on how many of the wish list features are satisfied. (This would probably only take a few hours to run).

Then you could give the SANFL the top 5 or so sample draws, and they could pick the one they like the best (in consultation with the clubs)
It isn't rocket science and there are people who would do it for free...


:-B

late edit: Pseudo beat me to it! :lol:
Dunno, I’m just an idiot.
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Re: 2012 SANFL Fixture

Postby dedja » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:12 pm

Please note: the views of the previous 2 correspondents are not an accurate representation of Glenelg supporters.

:-B
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Re: 2012 SANFL Fixture

Postby story of my life » Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:45 pm

dedja wrote:Please note: the views of the previous 2 correspondents are not an accurate representation of Glenelg supporters.

:-B


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Re: 2012 SANFL Fixture

Postby FlyingHigh » Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:49 pm

Thought this may have attracted some comment:

The Eagles have two of their byes in consecutive rounds, 18 and 19.
Much like the last two years when we had the bye over the split round at a similar time of year.
Given our efforts in the last two finals series, this would appear a tactical request coming from the coach?
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Re: 2012 SANFL Fixture

Postby Tiger Couple » Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:14 pm

Glenelg also have 2 Byes in a row Round 15 & 16.

Possibly good from the point of freshening players up but from a supporters point of view I don't rate it.
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Re: 2012 SANFL Fixture

Postby redandblack » Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:06 pm

Booney, if you've done 18 rounds or so, with every team playing the others twice, are you running into problems in the last three games with every team having the same number of byes?

Back to the drawing board or not?
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Re: 2012 SANFL Fixture

Postby Agile » Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:40 am

And guess what? The Roosters have a bye two weeks in a row aswell. End of June, early July. Take the bride away for a little holiday mid year and get back into the good books.Bloody BRILLIANT fixture. Throw the pen and paper away Booney, all is well.
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Re: 2012 SANFL Fixture

Postby Booney » Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:10 am

redandblack wrote:Booney, if you've done 18 rounds or so, with every team playing the others twice, are you running into problems in the last three games with every team having the same number of byes?

Back to the drawing board or not?


Nope. In the final 3 rounds there are three teams with a bye in each round, therefore the 9 teams all get their third byw for the year.
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Re: 2012 SANFL Fixture

Postby FlyingHigh » Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:46 am

Tiger Couple wrote:Glenelg also have 2 Byes in a row Round 15 & 16.

Possibly good from the point of freshening players up but from a supporters point of view I don't rate it.


Agile wrote:And guess what? The Roosters have a bye two weeks in a row aswell. End of June, early July. Take the bride away for a little holiday mid year and get back into the good books.Bloody BRILLIANT fixture. Throw the pen and paper away Booney, all is well.


Thanks TC, Agile, missed that completely, probably too focussed on my team.
Actually the Eagles have another double "bye", with a bye following the state game.
If the players and coaches are happy with the double bye, then that's good enough for me. Far better than Sturt's draw of all byes plus state game before the middle of the year.
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Re: 2012 SANFL Fixture

Postby whufc » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:31 pm

What are the non negotables for the years football season ill have a crack at knocking up a draw, i do this kind of thing all the time at work for our soccer and netball comps obviously not to the same extent but ill have a crack.
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Re: 2012 SANFL Fixture

Postby DOC » Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:29 pm

18 home night games for South (none against Centrals).
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