Sturt vs Port game review thread

[Barto]

I just want to know what's been said and by who. I think I need facts more than innuendo.

When we're playing like rubbish and get belted, it's a case of the players aren't playing for the coach, there's no game plan etc. Perhaps that's the case, but when they come out and win by ten goals or grind out a gutsy win, few say the opposite.

I'm thinking by this that Norman has personally upset a few supporters.

[Barto]

Of course if this happens again next year, then he's out the door fault or no fault.

I cant bring myself to call for his head because I know the way things will unravel if we do. Who pays out his contract? Where do we get the money for that considering we're still not exactly a wealthy club. Who else falls on their sword etc.

I think we can leave this kind of behaviour to the Power.

[CUTTERMAN]

Norman is contracted to the end of 2012 ... signed a 2 year extension at the start of 2010.

http://www.sturtfc.com.au/news/2010/03/ ... an-extra-2

You see... surely this was a dumb move... he's initially signed up for the 2009-2010 seasons, he makes the GF in his first year and they immediately extend the contract... people say my request that he's sacked is knee jerk, there's a knee jerk to the opposite extreme.

One good year, a great coach, does not make.

CS, that is an opinion with the benefit of hindsight or did you voice your concern at the time of the contract signing? I would guess not.
So the club sacks Normo tomorrow and pay out his contract, the club then has to find yet more money we probably don't have for another coach that we probably can barely afford. Two years after that, the clubs financials are in dire straights and everyone is on forums and at AGM's calling for accountability....especially those that were calling for the coach's head a few years before.
The SFC is slowly digging itself out of a financial hole and are you seriously asking the club to undo all of that persistent
hard work?
How do you propose we pay out Normo's contract after they sack him?
Who do you propose we replace him with?
How do you propose we afford this new coach that will be the tonic to our onfield issues?

[csbowes]

CS, that is an opinion with the benefit of hindsight or did you voice your concern at the time of the contract signing? I would guess not.

My opinion wasn't sought as a club member. If they'd have asked, I would have offered my opinion. I was at the AGM and his contract extension was not proposed or announced, so I can't do much about something I was never told about.

The SFC is slowly digging itself out of a financial hole and are you seriously asking the club to undo all of that persistent hard work?

No. I'm not asking them to undo it. You're presuming it will result in dire financial consequences. You've pointed out that I need to provide facts to support my opinions, in this case you're just presuming we can't afford it. Do you have the current accounts? Do you know where we spend our money? What areas might have too much or too little funding? If you have access to that information, then put it on the board and I'll analyse it. If you don't then you're simply making the assumption we can't afford it, while I could, though I haven't, equally assume we can.

How do you propose we pay out Normo's contract after they sack him?

As I've alluded above, I'd need to see the accounts in detail.

Who do you propose we replace him with?

At this point in time, having not gone through a recruitment campaign, Mark Mickan.

How do you propose we afford this new coach that will be the tonic to our onfield issues?

It would depend on the demands of the winning candidate, who is as yet not known.

My question to you, what do you propose the club should do to turn it's fortunes around?

... and I'll assume you have an answer different to "do nothing"?

[HOORAY PUNT]

Good posts CS. As a paid up member you are entitled to your view. You make a very good point ,praise or criticism " when necessary. I think we have people in place that share this view and thankfully not ones that are ridiculously blinded and don't want to accept when things are poor . I know Matt Benson isn't one for being happy being 2nd best .

[HOORAY PUNT]

Watching games live you tend to see where a coach lacks and match ups ,positioning , no game plan , poor skills and poor selections all rest ultimately with the coach.Constant harping on about "third hand" hearsay is tedious and people are entitled to their opinions .Listening to supporters at the ground and all the ones I speak to have the same opinion. Continuing to not accept reality is what will hurt on field not members and supporters opinion surely. I hope the decision makers see reality and don't have the same attiitude of some "supporters" .

Bowen is not on a grand from what I have been told and he is only 1 player that left and IMO wasn't good enough anyway.

I've got no problem with someone having a fair and measured opinion, my issue lies with opinions that arent backed up with solutions, or opinions that aren't all encompassing, ie "it's the coach's fault and not at all the players". Just seems to be a simple answer for me. A problem normally is made up of many parts not one singular issue or person.
So again, how does the club afford to pay out Luke Normans contract if they follow what you think is the right decision for the club? HP? How do you propose they do that?

I haven't proposed he be sacked though ?

[CUTTERMAN]

CUTTERMAN wrote:

CS, that is an opinion with the benefit of hindsight or did you voice your concern at the time of the contract signing? I would guess not.

My opinion wasn't sought as a club member. If they'd have asked, I would have offered my opinion. I was at the AGM and his contract extension was not proposed or announced, so I can't do much about something I was never told about.

That comes across as a bit of a cop-out but fair enough, however, did you protest this decision after the fact, if not then it is, as I mentioned before, just in hindsight.


CUTTERMAN wrote:

The SFC is slowly digging itself out of a financial hole and are you seriously asking the club to undo all of that persistent hard work?

No. I'm not asking them to undo it. You're presuming it will result in dire financial consequences. You've pointed out that I need to provide facts to support my opinions, in this case you're just presuming we can't afford it. Do you have the current accounts? Do you know where we spend our money? What areas might have too much or too little funding? If you have access to that information, then put it on the board and I'll analyse it. If you don't then you're simply making the assumption we can't afford it, while I could, though I haven't, equally assume we can.

I don't have the financials of the club and I am basing my concern (of sacking the coach) on what someone from the club has mentioned concerning the club affording a pay out of Norman's contract, that is all, but it sounds like you are as unaware as I am of the financial status of the club, yet you are calling for Norman to be sacked, paid out and another coach employed. You are presuming that the club can afford to do this, you are calling for the coach to be sacked and that he should never have been offrered the current contract.


CUTTERMAN wrote:

How do you propose we pay out Normo's contract after they sack him?

As I've alluded above, I'd need to see the accounts in detail.

Then maybe a more moderate stance on Norman's future is required on your part.

CUTTERMAN wrote:

Who do you propose we replace him with?

At this point in time, having not gone through a recruitment campaign, Mark Mickan.

So you've sacked the coach without knowing if there's a better option out there.



CUTTERMAN wrote:

How do you propose we afford this new coach that will be the tonic to our onfield issues?

It would depend on the demands of the winning candidate, who is as yet not known.

My question to you, what do you propose the club should do to turn it's fortunes around?

... and I'll assume you have an answer different to "do nothing"?

I don't propose to have any answers CS, that is the difference between you and I. You are proposing the answer is to sack the coach (even without knowing if the club can support such a decision financially or if there is a better coach out there). I am backing the club to make the right decisions considering they have all the information infront of them, I certainly don't and it's become obvious that you don't.
CS and for that matter HP, I don't have a problem with you guy's finding fault with the coach or if you think he's not a good coach but it just seems like a bit of a one dimensional attack concerning the woe's of the SFC at the moment. I think our current performance is due to numerous factors, coaching staff, past players (retiring, walking out, moving interstate etc), young players coming through, recruiting issues to name a few. I'm just not going to point the finger at one person.

[HOORAY PUNT]

Cutterman , I must set this straight. I am not attacking the Sturt FC .I am simply passing my thoughts and observations that I see annd believe me everyone I speak to see exactly the same .It is not about attacking clubs or anything like that , it's about wanting the best for the club . Don't confuse my comments for anything else as but how I see it .It is easy to see back and think people are just negative when they voice their concerns.

[CUTTERMAN]

Cutterman , I must set this straight. I am not attacking the Sturt FC .I am simply passing my thoughts and observations that I see annd believe me everyone I speak to see exactly the same .It is not about attacking clubs or anything like that , it's about wanting the best for the club . Don't confuse my comments for anything else as but how I see it .It is easy to see back and think people are just negative when they voice their concerns.

No worries HP, I just think it's a bit one dimensional. Like Sturt when we go forward

[HOORAY PUNT]

[pipers]

Yep, I did resign last year after countless efforts trying to clean the squad up.
I only see one problem with your comment above pipers..... you say it was good to see the squad cleaned out. Problem is, all the good ones are the ones that left, the bad ones are the only ones still there.

It is disappointing to hear that Voice, and to be honest I didn't even see a cheer squad at Unley yesterday. Mr and Mrs Peanut in front of us were flying solo.

[pipers]

Anyway, since this seems to have swung towards a "sack the coach" thread, I'd be interested to see:

a) if anyone agrees that perhaps Port were just too good on the day
b) who Port's best were

On the latter I would say Erskine, Thurgood, Slattery and probably Young...

[pipers]

What's the relevance of this photo

No relevance.

Play-on.

[FlyingHigh]

If Clayton comes back and finds form, do Port have the ability to make a difference in the finals?

[HOORAY PUNT]

Anyway, since this seems to have swung towards a "sack the coach" thread, I'd be interested to see:

a) if anyone agrees that perhaps Port were just too good on the day
b) who Port's best were

On the latter I would say Erskine, Thurgood, Slattery and probably Young...

Yes Port were too good but not taking anything away from Port they had no competition and should have won by more.

Thurgood was good and I like Milera . Lokan was just laughing with Sturts forward entries and at least he knows he isn' the slowest player as he is quicker than Duldig.

[csbowes]

That comes across as a bit of a cop-out but fair enough, however, did you protest this decision after the fact, if not then it is, as I mentioned before, just in hindsight.

I hope you're not trying to be antagonistic, but it's coming across like that. I found out he was given an extension based on the 2009 performance about a day ago, when I read it on here. It's a premature decision. He'd deserve an extension if he'd made the top 3 in 2010. He didn't, so he didn't deserve an extension IMNSHO.

I don't have the financials of the club...

I have the financial details as provided by the club at the AGM, which I'm sure you do too. That information doesn't lend itself to be able to say with any real certainty whether the club can afford to pay him out or not. The club is no stranger to making massive financial outlays even when incredibly poor, time travel back to the stupid decision to buy poker machines in the 1990s, which we couldn't afford... and yes I protested at the decision on 5AA and to Ross Tuohy himself.

The club is not rolling in rivers of gold, but nor are it's commitments higher than it's assets. SFC is a highly leveraged club, something that I'm sure disappoints the board, members, coach, players, everyone with some interest in it. That said, this situation shouldn't preclude the club from making a hard decision, be it removing the coach, removing players, removing board members or even removing me from the AGM! Presidents and GM's are there to make unpleasant decisions.

At present, I manage a project where I'm currently making decisions that will result in people being sacked. I'd rather not, but I'm not employed to be Mr Popular and everyone's saviour. I'm hired to make decisions and get results.

So you've sacked the coach without knowing if there's a better option out there.

I said I'd choose Mark Mickan, noting that no recruitment campaign had been done. Re-read my post, buddy.

I don't propose to have any answers CS

There's that "do nothing" answer I said you couldn't use. There's plenty of examples in every office where "no decision" is worse than a "dumb decision". I work in Defence and it's a common way of thinking. You're whole argument is essentially along the lines, I don't think we can afford to sack him, I don't know who we can replace him with, so therefore I choose to do nothing and just cross my fingers and hope he does better, if not, I'll accept another poor season and just not re-appoint him.

It's very easy to take the "easy" option and do nothing.

I wish I could do nothing at my work, but for shame, I'm held accountable. It's a novel idea, but I think it's catching on in places.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong about Norman. I hope I'm jumping the gun and when the club keeps him on, which they probably will if he avoids the wooden spoon, that he goes on to take us back to mid-table next year.

Anyway, let's leave this argument as we agree to disagree.

[smithy]

Good healthy debate happening here.
At least fans are concerned rather than accept that performance as acceptable.
Whether that means the coach goes now or at the end of the contract, something needs to be done either in recruiting to help him out next season and refuse to play the so called players that aren't happy with the coach.
Season is over now, play more kids, give us something to be excited about for next season and try to maintain the 3000 members.

[SANFLnut]

Ironically giving Norman an early extension to his contract makes him more sackable now than if they (and he) had waited. Having appointed him for 2 years and one of those being a grand final appearance he was always going to be reappointed. If that decision was made at the beginning of this season then it would be tough to go back on it so quickly. Given that since the board made that decision the team has just fallen in to a finals series before getting smashed and then will go close to finishing bottom, there is arguably more evidence pointing in that direction.

[CENTURION]

Sturt just need to get their structures right.

[CUTTERMAN]

geez CS if I take your stance on posting we'll go quote for quote for quote for the next week. You probably think that you've been mis-quoted by me and I you, or mis-interpreted.

I hope you're not trying to be antagonistic, but it's coming across like that. I found out he was given an extension based on the 2009 performance about a day ago, when I read it on here. It's a premature decision. He'd deserve an extension if he'd made the top 3 in 2010. He didn't, so he didn't deserve an extension IMNSHO.

Not trying to be such at all, the opposite. But CS it seems that you're making a lot of assumptions and decisions about the coach and finding out about facts only recently yet you've been pressing for his head for a while now. That's ok, it just doesn't seem as though is well thought out.

At present, I manage a project where I'm currently making decisions that will result in people being sacked. I'd rather not, but I'm not employed to be Mr Popular and everyone's saviour. I'm hired to make decisions and get results.

I don't see what your employment or work situation has to do with this. It makes no difference what you do for a job.

I said I'd choose Mark Mickan, noting that no recruitment campaign had been done. Re-read my post, buddy.

Antagonistic? I obviously have read your post, thankyou.

CUTTERMAN wrote:

I don't propose to have any answers

That is a total misrepresentation of what I said there and you accuse me of being antagonistic!

Your answer to that is:

There's that "do nothing" answer I said you couldn't use. There's plenty of examples in every office where "no decision" is worse than a "dumb decision". I work in Defence and it's a common way of thinking. You're whole argument is essentially along the lines, I don't think we can afford to sack him, I don't know who we can replace him with, so therefore I choose to do nothing and just cross my fingers and hope he does better, if not, I'll accept another poor season and just not re-appoint him.

It's very easy to take the "easy" option and do nothing.

I wish I could do nothing at my work, but for shame, I'm held accountable. It's a novel idea, but I think it's catching on in places.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong about Norman. I hope I'm jumping the gun and when the club keeps him on, which they probably will if he avoids the wooden spoon, that he goes on to take us back to mid-table next year.

Anyway, let's leave this argument as we agree to disagree.

That "do nothing" thing you accuse me of is again misrepresentational, I've never said that, it is YOU that accuse me of that. I have said that I back the club to do the right thing with the full information behind that decision. I have NEVER profounded that I know what the club should do concerning the coach.
Finally don't assume that I will agree to disagree with you because from your satements, and how you've chosen to make them I am further from agreeing with your argument more than ever.
However next time I see you at the footy I'll make sure I introduce myself and say hello, and probably have a beer with you.