AFL Reserves Discussion...

[Dutchy]

Instead of the AFL wasting millions and millions of dollars north of the Murray (GWS & GCFC) they should invest in a AFL reserves comp.

My fear is they come into the comp and then leave in 2-3 years time to go to a national AFL reseves comp, this is the logical next step, they will destroy our comp and it won't recover.

[Agile]

well you cover yourself in glory with all your abuse, Sleeping Giant

Totally agree with TSG. Nobody deserves any confidentiality here, particularly if something underhanded has gone down. This is too big a deal.
I don't believe anything has been decided yet. There has been no vote taken by the clubs because nothing has been presented to them by the Crows and Power.
If however, you know of club or League officials who are saying otherwise, you need to "out" them because they need to be held accountable.

Yep ,I'm of the same opinion. Put up or shut up. Your worse than the clowns on radio .

[CENTURION]

has anyone thought that maybe the person who divulged the information doesn't want to be named?

[on the rails]

An update from Rucci in the 'Tiser (Also on Adelaide Now):

******************************************************************
FIVE THINGS YOU WILL HEAR (in the "reserves" debate)

1. TOP-UP PLAYERS
ADELAIDE says it wants to offer "top-up" positions in its reserves team by borrowing under-age players from its SANFL rivals. When this thought was put forward for the NT entry to be the SANFL's 10th team, the SANFL clubs put up the roadblock to Darwin. What has changed?

2. CROWDS
AFL reserves teams will boost attendances in the SANFL (which is challenged to grow). So how do the Norwood, Glenelg, Sturt fans who are also Crows and Power supporters in the AFL decide which team carries their heart in the SANFL the AFL reserves teams or their original SANFL club? Such cannibalism of SANFL supporter bases is hardly likely to increase SANFL attendances. And how does the new generation of football fans ever choose a SANFL club if they grow up only thinking of the Crows and Power?

3. MODELS
IF having AFL reserves teams in the SANFL is such a great model why has it not worked for the VFL in a market with stronger commercial options and a larger population base? To refer back to the promise of improved crowds, check the VFL numbers since that competition was compromised by AFL clubs.

4. TELEVISION
IF -- and it is a mighty if -- commercial television is (after 20 years) to suddenly find interest in covering SANFL football, commercial reality will dictate the game of the week is always the Crows and Power reserves. How does that help the established SANFL clubs build their development profiles?

5. MAGPIES
PERHAPS Sunday Mail colleague Ben Hook can answer how the teenager in the Magpies under-18 and under-16 team is assured of fulfilling his dream of being an SANFL league player at Alberton when the Magpies are compromised (or taken over) as the Power reserves working to Ken Hinkley's agenda rather than that of Ken McGregor.

[85 WAS A GOOD YEAR]

I never thought the day would come, but .... well said Rucci

[whufc]

Instead of the AFL wasting millions and millions of dollars north of the Murray (GWS & GCFC) they should invest in a AFL reserves comp.

My fear is they come into the comp and then leave in 2-3 years time to go to a national AFL reseves comp, this is the logical next step, they will destroy our comp and it won't recover.

Totally agree 1000%

we would be nothing more than a stepping stone or stop gap until the AFL eventually decides to run an AFL reserves comp (which imho is inevitable)

[whufc]

An update from Rucci in the 'Tiser (Also on Adelaide Now):

******************************************************************
FIVE THINGS YOU WILL HEAR (in the "reserves" debate)

1. TOP-UP PLAYERS
ADELAIDE says it wants to offer "top-up" positions in its reserves team by borrowing under-age players from its SANFL rivals. When this thought was put forward for the NT entry to be the SANFL's 10th team, the SANFL clubs put up the roadblock to Darwin. What has changed?

2. CROWDS
AFL reserves teams will boost attendances in the SANFL (which is challenged to grow). So how do the Norwood, Glenelg, Sturt fans who are also Crows and Power supporters in the AFL decide which team carries their heart in the SANFL the AFL reserves teams or their original SANFL club? Such cannibalism of SANFL supporter bases is hardly likely to increase SANFL attendances. And how does the new generation of football fans ever choose a SANFL club if they grow up only thinking of the Crows and Power?

3. MODELS
IF having AFL reserves teams in the SANFL is such a great model why has it not worked for the VFL in a market with stronger commercial options and a larger population base? To refer back to the promise of improved crowds, check the VFL numbers since that competition was compromised by AFL clubs.

4. TELEVISION
IF -- and it is a mighty if -- commercial television is (after 20 years) to suddenly find interest in covering SANFL football, commercial reality will dictate the game of the week is always the Crows and Power reserves. How does that help the established SANFL clubs build their development profiles?

5. MAGPIES
PERHAPS Sunday Mail colleague Ben Hook can answer how the teenager in the Magpies under-18 and under-16 team is assured of fulfilling his dream of being an SANFL league player at Alberton when the Magpies are compromised (or taken over) as the Power reserves working to Ken Hinkley's agenda rather than that of Ken McGregor.

I have heard Port Power are looking to keep their zones and want to keep u/16 and u/18 sides as development type squads.

Am i missing something but what i dont get is what real purpose this will serve them. Unless the AFL decide to get rid of the national draft (which will never happen) having a 'youth' set up guarentees absolutely nothing when it comes to drafting players to the AFL side.

[on the rails]

I never thought the day would come, but .... well said Rucci

As I have said quite a few times recently re this debate - Rucci despite what many have thought over the years and a supposed Port bias, he has been the voice of reason! He is anti the AFL Reserves being in the League Comp and he has at least proposed a well thought out alternative model. Plus as highlighted today, his reasoning is based on very sound concerns re the impacts etc. and I am sure that the 8 SANFL Clubs are fully aware of these too, if not they should be everytime he goes to print re this matter.

Let's see how both the PAFC anbd AFC counteract these concerns with solutions? I cannot possibly see how they can given they have not proposed any model and any solutions to the concerns raised. All they have to date is state they want / expect Reserves Teams in our League Comp with out any concern for our comp.

[Harry the Horse]

An update from Rucci in the 'Tiser (Also on Adelaide Now):

******************************************************************
FIVE THINGS YOU WILL HEAR (in the "reserves" debate)

1. TOP-UP PLAYERS
ADELAIDE says it wants to offer "top-up" positions in its reserves team by borrowing under-age players from its SANFL rivals. When this thought was put forward for the NT entry to be the SANFL's 10th team, the SANFL clubs put up the roadblock to Darwin. What has changed?

2. CROWDS
AFL reserves teams will boost attendances in the SANFL (which is challenged to grow). So how do the Norwood, Glenelg, Sturt fans who are also Crows and Power supporters in the AFL decide which team carries their heart in the SANFL the AFL reserves teams or their original SANFL club? Such cannibalism of SANFL supporter bases is hardly likely to increase SANFL attendances. And how does the new generation of football fans ever choose a SANFL club if they grow up only thinking of the Crows and Power?

3. MODELS
IF having AFL reserves teams in the SANFL is such a great model why has it not worked for the VFL in a market with stronger commercial options and a larger population base? To refer back to the promise of improved crowds, check the VFL numbers since that competition was compromised by AFL clubs.

4. TELEVISION
IF -- and it is a mighty if -- commercial television is (after 20 years) to suddenly find interest in covering SANFL football, commercial reality will dictate the game of the week is always the Crows and Power reserves. How does that help the established SANFL clubs build their development profiles?

5. MAGPIES
PERHAPS Sunday Mail colleague Ben Hook can answer how the teenager in the Magpies under-18 and under-16 team is assured of fulfilling his dream of being an SANFL league player at Alberton when the Magpies are compromised (or taken over) as the Power reserves working to Ken Hinkley's agenda rather than that of Ken McGregor.

I have heard Port Power are looking to keep their zones and want to keep u/16 and u/18 sides as development type squads.

Am i missing something but what i dont get is what real purpose this will serve them. Unless the AFL decide to get rid of the national draft (which will never happen) having a 'youth' set up guarentees absolutely nothing when it comes to drafting players to the AFL side.

They're trying to look after the Magpies ... they want access to all the Power-listed players AND keep their SANFL zones AND their under age sides.
Idiots.

[kickinit]

An update from Rucci in the 'Tiser (Also on Adelaide Now):

******************************************************************
FIVE THINGS YOU WILL HEAR (in the "reserves" debate)

1. TOP-UP PLAYERS
ADELAIDE says it wants to offer "top-up" positions in its reserves team by borrowing under-age players from its SANFL rivals. When this thought was put forward for the NT entry to be the SANFL's 10th team, the SANFL clubs put up the roadblock to Darwin. What has changed?

2. CROWDS
AFL reserves teams will boost attendances in the SANFL (which is challenged to grow). So how do the Norwood, Glenelg, Sturt fans who are also Crows and Power supporters in the AFL decide which team carries their heart in the SANFL the AFL reserves teams or their original SANFL club? Such cannibalism of SANFL supporter bases is hardly likely to increase SANFL attendances. And how does the new generation of football fans ever choose a SANFL club if they grow up only thinking of the Crows and Power?

3. MODELS
IF having AFL reserves teams in the SANFL is such a great model why has it not worked for the VFL in a market with stronger commercial options and a larger population base? To refer back to the promise of improved crowds, check the VFL numbers since that competition was compromised by AFL clubs.

4. TELEVISION
IF -- and it is a mighty if -- commercial television is (after 20 years) to suddenly find interest in covering SANFL football, commercial reality will dictate the game of the week is always the Crows and Power reserves. How does that help the established SANFL clubs build their development profiles?

5. MAGPIES
PERHAPS Sunday Mail colleague Ben Hook can answer how the teenager in the Magpies under-18 and under-16 team is assured of fulfilling his dream of being an SANFL league player at Alberton when the Magpies are compromised (or taken over) as the Power reserves working to Ken Hinkley's agenda rather than that of Ken McGregor.

I have heard Port Power are looking to keep their zones and want to keep u/16 and u/18 sides as development type squads.

Am i missing something but what i dont get is what real purpose this will serve them. Unless the AFL decide to get rid of the national draft (which will never happen) having a 'youth' set up guarentees absolutely nothing when it comes to drafting players to the AFL side.

Probably has no real advantage for Port because of the Draft. But it does give 100 kids the opportunity to improve their footy and possible of playing league or afl. While the best of these kids would be picked up when the zones are shuffled around, you would still lose kids along the way.

[CUTTERMAN]

Has anyone thought of rule changes if this goes ahead?
No more 25m penalties, 4 on the bench etc etc
I know we introduce some AFL rule changes but if we were pressured to implement every mad woman's hair brained idea it would become ridiculous, not that the SANFL umpiring is any great standard.

[CUTTERMAN]

An update from Rucci in the 'Tiser (Also on Adelaide Now):

******************************************************************
FIVE THINGS YOU WILL HEAR (in the "reserves" debate)

1. TOP-UP PLAYERS
ADELAIDE says it wants to offer "top-up" positions in its reserves team by borrowing under-age players from its SANFL rivals. When this thought was put forward for the NT entry to be the SANFL's 10th team, the SANFL clubs put up the roadblock to Darwin. What has changed?

2. CROWDS
AFL reserves teams will boost attendances in the SANFL (which is challenged to grow). So how do the Norwood, Glenelg, Sturt fans who are also Crows and Power supporters in the AFL decide which team carries their heart in the SANFL the AFL reserves teams or their original SANFL club? Such cannibalism of SANFL supporter bases is hardly likely to increase SANFL attendances. And how does the new generation of football fans ever choose a SANFL club if they grow up only thinking of the Crows and Power?

3. MODELS
IF having AFL reserves teams in the SANFL is such a great model why has it not worked for the VFL in a market with stronger commercial options and a larger population base? To refer back to the promise of improved crowds, check the VFL numbers since that competition was compromised by AFL clubs.

4. TELEVISION
IF -- and it is a mighty if -- commercial television is (after 20 years) to suddenly find interest in covering SANFL football, commercial reality will dictate the game of the week is always the Crows and Power reserves. How does that help the established SANFL clubs build their development profiles?

5. MAGPIES
PERHAPS Sunday Mail colleague Ben Hook can answer how the teenager in the Magpies under-18 and under-16 team is assured of fulfilling his dream of being an SANFL league player at Alberton when the Magpies are compromised (or taken over) as the Power reserves working to Ken Hinkley's agenda rather than that of Ken McGregor.

I have heard Port Power are looking to keep their zones and want to keep u/16 and u/18 sides as development type squads.

Am i missing something but what i dont get is what real purpose this will serve them. Unless the AFL decide to get rid of the national draft (which will never happen) having a 'youth' set up guarentees absolutely nothing when it comes to drafting players to the AFL side.

Probably has no real advantage for Port because of the Draft. But it does give 100 kids the opportunity to improve their footy and possible of playing league or afl. While the best of these kids would be picked up when the zones are shuffled around, you would still lose kids along the way.

Yes because it's all about Port and their altruistic values in helping kids.

[whufc]

Has anyone thought of rule changes if this goes ahead?
No more 25m penalties, 4 on the bench etc etc
I know we introduce some AFL rule changes but if we were pressured to implement every mad woman's hair brained idea it would become ridiculous, not that the SANFL umpiring is any great standard.

Agree im one who definatly prefers the SANFL interpretations of the rules, if they did change to copy the AFL rules my enjoyment of the SANFL would lessen abit.

[kickinit]

Instead of the AFL wasting millions and millions of dollars north of the Murray (GWS & GCFC) they should invest in a AFL reserves comp.

My fear is they come into the comp and then leave in 2-3 years time to go to a national AFL reseves comp, this is the logical next step, they will destroy our comp and it won't recover.

Totally agree 1000%

we would be nothing more than a stepping stone or stop gap until the AFL eventually decides to run an AFL reserves comp (which imho is inevitable)

easily fixed with a contract

[Dutchy]

The only sensible voice in the media has been Rucci and his model which has alot of merit as the only viable option if we have to entertain AFL Reserves Teams in SA.

Rucci isn't alone, there are a few more in the media that don't want this to happen..

[kickinit]

Sorry for the rant but im up early watching 'in the night garden' with a sick 2 year old.

The dissapointing part for me if the SANFL goes down the gurglar is that there is still genuine support for the SANFL clubs (which i think is a point of difference to the VFL clubs) A Norwood v West GF can still get 30k despite the main stream image both play unattractive football, Central v Eagles can still get 30k to a GF despite the repitive nature of it, it was only 5 years ago Glenelg v Sturt got 12k at a minor round game, South can still get 2k to a game despite years of mediocrity. If you were to walk around AAMI the next Crows home game and asked who also 'follows' an SANFL club i think their would be a high percentage.

The problem is i dont think the SANFL has done enough to try and turn that interest into larger crowd numbers. Programming Central vs Eagles at the exact same time the Crows are on at AAMI, Centrals next home game against Port Magpies is on the exact same time the Power is playing, that is ludicrious.

I would love the SANFL to experiment a bit, how about go to Centrals (sorry about the centraleaque nature of the post) and say the home game coming up against South is usually a small attender, what we want you to do is open the gates for this game, no entry fee for anyone. Yes the club loses money from the entrance fee but what happens if 3-4k show up and start spending money over the bar, in the canteens etc etc. The SANFL and CDFC would have figures that show matchday income, if it fails and Centrals run at a loss the SANFL could subsidse it as a one off and never repeat the exercise, if Centrals make a mint from it then you could be onto a winner.

The AFL attendances in Adelaide are dropping, there must be a reason for this (cost, style of football, the stadium etc etc). The SANFL should be doing all they can to find out why people are walking away from the AFL and become the league that fits the needs of the fans.

Not all will agree but maybe the Saturday afternoon timeslot needs to be a thing of the past. I know the SANFL traditionalists would hate the thought but you automatically eliminate to great an amount of your demographic due to ammos, country leagues etc etc. With Adelaide Oval back up next year there needs to be a Friday night game there every week for at least the first month and abit of the season.

With Adelaide Oval back up and running maybe there is the option to run triple header days at the Oval, imagine example only 12.00pm- West v Glenelg, 3pm- Central v North, 6pm Sturt v Norwood.

The SANFL is a great product, a mate of mine who is a massive Crows fan but has never had an interest in the SANFL came to his first game this year at Alberton between Port and Centrals. He LOVEEEEED it, the footy was hard and tough, there was passionate but respectable banter in the crowd, he was close to the action. If we can actually get people coming into grounds rather hearing the scores on 5AA there is a massive chance they will come back again.

If the SANFL is going to die i want to see it go down fighting rather then bending over and taking it up the bum from the AFL essentially prostituting itself for its survival.

the problem I see with the AFL crowds is the price. Your looking at $30 for a ticket and $15 for a car park, plus you add to the fact the cost of food and drinks. Especially when the teams are going crap people ten to drop off because of the cost and plus some only go when the team is winning.

I like the tripple header Idea, especially if they are playing finals there. But what effect does that have on the clubs. Taking a home game away would mean loss of income, would teams be happy with that.

[whufc]

Sorry for the rant but im up early watching 'in the night garden' with a sick 2 year old.

The dissapointing part for me if the SANFL goes down the gurglar is that there is still genuine support for the SANFL clubs (which i think is a point of difference to the VFL clubs) A Norwood v West GF can still get 30k despite the main stream image both play unattractive football, Central v Eagles can still get 30k to a GF despite the repitive nature of it, it was only 5 years ago Glenelg v Sturt got 12k at a minor round game, South can still get 2k to a game despite years of mediocrity. If you were to walk around AAMI the next Crows home game and asked who also 'follows' an SANFL club i think their would be a high percentage.

The problem is i dont think the SANFL has done enough to try and turn that interest into larger crowd numbers. Programming Central vs Eagles at the exact same time the Crows are on at AAMI, Centrals next home game against Port Magpies is on the exact same time the Power is playing, that is ludicrious.

I would love the SANFL to experiment a bit, how about go to Centrals (sorry about the centraleaque nature of the post) and say the home game coming up against South is usually a small attender, what we want you to do is open the gates for this game, no entry fee for anyone. Yes the club loses money from the entrance fee but what happens if 3-4k show up and start spending money over the bar, in the canteens etc etc. The SANFL and CDFC would have figures that show matchday income, if it fails and Centrals run at a loss the SANFL could subsidse it as a one off and never repeat the exercise, if Centrals make a mint from it then you could be onto a winner.

The AFL attendances in Adelaide are dropping, there must be a reason for this (cost, style of football, the stadium etc etc). The SANFL should be doing all they can to find out why people are walking away from the AFL and become the league that fits the needs of the fans.

Not all will agree but maybe the Saturday afternoon timeslot needs to be a thing of the past. I know the SANFL traditionalists would hate the thought but you automatically eliminate to great an amount of your demographic due to ammos, country leagues etc etc. With Adelaide Oval back up next year there needs to be a Friday night game there every week for at least the first month and abit of the season.

With Adelaide Oval back up and running maybe there is the option to run triple header days at the Oval, imagine example only 12.00pm- West v Glenelg, 3pm- Central v North, 6pm Sturt v Norwood.

The SANFL is a great product, a mate of mine who is a massive Crows fan but has never had an interest in the SANFL came to his first game this year at Alberton between Port and Centrals. He LOVEEEEED it, the footy was hard and tough, there was passionate but respectable banter in the crowd, he was close to the action. If we can actually get people coming into grounds rather hearing the scores on 5AA there is a massive chance they will come back again.

If the SANFL is going to die i want to see it go down fighting rather then bending over and taking it up the bum from the AFL essentially prostituting itself for its survival.

the problem I see with the AFL crowds is the price. Your looking at $30 for a ticket and $15 for a car park, plus you add to the fact the cost of food and drinks. Especially when the teams are going crap people ten to drop off because of the cost and plus some only go when the team is winning.

I like the tripple header Idea, especially if they are playing finals there. But what effect does that have on the clubs. Taking a home game away would mean loss of income, would teams be happy with that.

I dont know the finer details but i do know when Sturt moved a heap of friday night games to AO a few years ago it was because they made money from the larger crowds AO provided.

Not sure how it works in the way of what percentage of gate takens, canteen takens etc etc go to the club, SANFL and AO.

[marbles]

if the SANFL clubs vote NO to afl reserves in the comp, then it wont happen yeah? or can the SANFL override and not give a stuff what the clubs vote?

[Reddeer]

Boy you fellow posters are as consistent as the umpiring in the football.
Turn all the comments you don't like into a slanging match.
I hate the idea of the AFL coming into the SANFL as much as anyone.
What I posted is true. I approached a Eagles board member to ascertain what I hoped the clubs position would be regarding this, ie dead against it. I was dismayed to be told that whilst that is the club position what is going to happen is that both Port and The Crows will have A grade teams in the SANFL next year playing for premiership points. That fact that it was a private conversation between us makes me reluctant to name names. Suffice to say this same official told me some time ago that the Adelaide Oval development would be going ahead months before anything had been announced {also much to my horror as I was dead against that as well.
I guess the TRUTH hurts.
I am assuming that he would know what he is talking about as he is also on the SACA board

[Dutchy]

Rex Sellers?

Given recent things that have happened with him Im not sure Id be taking his word.