National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby Booney » Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:17 am

zipzap wrote:Consey's article from Saturday http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/opin ... 5973099452

"Who knows, some of them might even be drafted to the AFL on the basis of their performances" - clearly the pinnacle of achievement in the eyes of Mr Cornes


Not sure how many blokes are capable of earning six-figure sums at SANFL level while being a truly professional footballer. I think you're dislike of all things AFL is clouding your judgment on this one. Cornes is right. How many mugs running around the SANFL at the moment wouldn't be interested in heading to the AFL?
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby Hondo » Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:21 am

sjt wrote:We keep hearing one of the major reasons clubs should participate is for the "exposure". What's so positive about the extra exposure, to make the risks and cost of competing worthwhile? It's not like Australian Rules is being exposed to a new market.
I don't think a Glenelg major sponsor for example will jump ship to Westies just because they're competing in this comp.
Five of the nine clubs disagree with him.


Your "risks and costs" are equally vague as my "exposure". Tell me specifically about them.

If the details aren't finalised as is the clubs' complaint (one of them) how can you or them be certain what it will cost

Each side has their generalised statements to support their argument
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby JK » Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:23 am

Hondo wrote:Each side has their generalised statements to support their argument


Very true .. Hence the earlier posts about it being more suitable for some than others, depending on their current situations and planning etc.
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby dedja » Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:31 am

... news break ...

Thread is now up to 36 pages.

... end of transmission ...
Dunno, I’m just an idiot.

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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby Reddeer » Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:34 am

Constance_Perm wrote:
Hondo wrote:
Constance_Perm wrote:If this competition is to be a regular fixture, hopefully within the next 12 months any remaining issues can be sorted or tweaked to ensure there's adequate appeal for all states top 3 sides to want to compete in 2012.


So why not strike while the iron is hot while we have our financier and make year 1 as successful as it can be. The clubs could then point to the success of the comp in year 1 and drive a better deal for year 2. If SANFL clubs are clearly keys to the success of year 1 then they could go their hardest to negotiate in year 2.


Maybe the clubs are sceptical there won't be a year 2? (I dunno, just speculating there)

You're question also works both ways though, what if the comp isn't as successful as the AFL or Foxtel would like and they believe they need the SANFL grand finalists to participate to make the extra impact - Then who holds the bargaining power?

Maybe some of them (and I suspect this is my mob) have adopted an approach of protecting their core-business as their highest priority (ie, sponsorship, best possible route to perform in the SANFL, and keeping their $ under control)

I don't have the answers, but then I don't have all the details for this competition either .. I just believe it's been hastily put together, and IMHO shouldn't be anywhere near the highest priority for my club as things stand today.

Take the wait and see road, at the moment far too many ifs and buts. Probably wont get off the ground anyway!!
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby Dutchy » Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:37 am

redandblack wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
redandblack wrote:I do get frustrated with those who see this as some sort of AFL 'plot'.


How do you explain GWS's entry into the comp then?


I'm sorry, but I still don't see that as any evidence of an AFL plot :?


Cant explain it like the rest of us?
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby sjt » Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:46 am

Hondo wrote:
sjt wrote:We keep hearing one of the major reasons clubs should participate is for the "exposure". What's so positive about the extra exposure, to make the risks and cost of competing worthwhile? It's not like Australian Rules is being exposed to a new market.
I don't think a Glenelg major sponsor for example will jump ship to Westies just because they're competing in this comp.
Five of the nine clubs disagree with him.


Your "risks and costs" are equally vague as my "exposure". Tell me specifically about them.

If the details aren't finalised as is the clubs' complaint (one of them) how can you or them be certain what it will cost

Each side has their generalised statements to support their argument


Risks are to the team preparation for SANFL finals and the ultimate GF. Vague to the extent that as you said, the details aren't finalised as yet, so total cost is still unknown. Clubs made a decision by the deadline on info they were actually given. Five of the clubs determined with that info. "in our view that the cost of participating would not be fully covered by the prize money on offer, and would therefore ultimately represent a new cost to our Clubs." Some clubs have determined adding an extra cost to the club isn't justified for the kudos and exposure they may receive if they were to win it. For others, the financial cost has been deemed worth absorbing for the experience and exposure and chance of winning. I've no problem with that, a club has to allocate funds where they deem the return will be best.
My point was personally, I don't see a major benefit to the club of the exposure they may gain by participating. If North for example compete and get a major sponsor from this competition, or a few hundred more members or recruit some quality players, that they otherwise would not have got, then I will definitely have been proven wrong.
Still a bit surprising that as of December the 20th they still don't know who almost half the teams competing will be.
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby redandblack » Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:59 am

Dutchy wrote:
redandblack wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
redandblack wrote:I do get frustrated with those who see this as some sort of AFL 'plot'.


How do you explain GWS's entry into the comp then?


I'm sorry, but I still don't see that as any evidence of an AFL plot :?


Cant explain it like the rest of us?


The AFL start a competition.

They invite clubs from SA.

Some accept, they say 'fine'.

Some decline, they say 'fine'.


"AFL plot against the SANFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" :roll:
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby doggies4eva » Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:11 pm

I don't think it is a plot - I think it is a really good idea.

But the idea has been very poorly managed - by the organisers not giving out enough information for the clubs to make an informed decision and then by the SANFL by accepting before all questions were answered. Even at SANFL footy is a multi million $ sport and this has been just amateurish.
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby zipzap » Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:15 pm

Booney wrote:
zipzap wrote:Consey's article from Saturday http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/opin ... 5973099452

"Who knows, some of them might even be drafted to the AFL on the basis of their performances" - clearly the pinnacle of achievement in the eyes of Mr Cornes


Not sure how many blokes are capable of earning six-figure sums at SANFL level while being a truly professional footballer. I think you're dislike of all things AFL is clouding your judgment on this one. Cornes is right. How many mugs running around the SANFL at the moment wouldn't be interested in heading to the AFL?


For the players sure. But from the clubs' point of view, which is what Cornsey is condemning, increasing the chances of having your best players nicked by AFL talent scouts seems a curious kind of incentive IMO.
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby Hondo » Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:27 pm

zipzap that's the point! It's not all about what's best for the clubs. Otherwise, why do we bother with state footy? Cornesy is condemning the clubs for denying us the public and the players these potential opportunities out of their own self-interest (his words). At the start of this thread most I recall were excited about the prospect of playing in this comp. You were one of those!

Would you like to play a game against Swan Districts at the G in front of a big (albiet building) crowd on national TV? Or hang with your mates at the Ramsgate on your week off?
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby zipzap » Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:51 pm

Hondo wrote:zipzap that's the point! It's not all about what's best for the clubs. Otherwise, why do we bother with state footy? Cornesy is condemning the clubs for denying us the public and the players these potential opportunities out of their own self-interest (his words). At the start of this thread most I recall were excited about the prospect of playing in this comp. You were one of those!

Would you like to play a game against Swan Districts at the G in front of a big (albiet building) crowd on national TV? Or hang with your mates at the Ramsgate on your week off?


Erm, just going back over my first post on the subject shows nothing has changed:

zipzap wrote:Sounds initially intriguing but there's something not quite kosher with this one. Seriously....Murdoch or Demetriou? Some choice...


Of course it is about the clubs which have a core business to attend to. Perhaps in time, in a perfect world, this will grow to become part of that core business - after all, most if not all are broadly supportive of the concept but as others have mentioned it is being rushed through with the fine print yet to be dissected.
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby sjt » Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:51 pm

Clubs making a decision based on what's in the club's best interest -disgraceful.
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby dedja » Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:52 pm

selfish bastards ...
Dunno, I’m just an idiot.

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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby Hondo » Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:01 pm

the fans, the players .... who cares what they might want. I must win the flag at any cost ...

Yes, you can distort that statement the other way too!

Neither are right IMO and I am not accusing the clubs of my first sentence. I reckon there's a balance to everything.
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby Royal City » Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:10 pm

Hondo wrote:the fans, the players .... who cares what they might want. I must win the flag at any cost ...



If the players and the fans don't want to win a flag 'at all costs' whats the point of it all?
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby am Bays » Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:26 pm

Royal City wrote:
Hondo wrote:the fans, the players .... who cares what they might want. I must win the flag at any cost ...



If the players and the fans don't want to win a flag 'at all costs' whats the point of it all?


=D> =D> =D>
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby Sojourner » Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:35 pm

Royal City wrote:
Hondo wrote:the fans, the players .... who cares what they might want. I must win the flag at any cost ...



If the players and the fans don't want to win a flag 'at all costs' whats the point of it all?


Can garantee that three if not four of the clubs that rejected the champions leauge will be finishing the season with nothing to show for it. for three of them or more, "all the costs" will be total futility and no opportunity to have won the national cup.
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby Royal City » Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:39 pm

Sojourner wrote:
Royal City wrote:
Hondo wrote:the fans, the players .... who cares what they might want. I must win the flag at any cost ...



If the players and the fans don't want to win a flag 'at all costs' whats the point of it all?


Can garantee that three if not four of the clubs that rejected the champions leauge will be finishing the season with nothing to show for it. for three of them or more, "all the costs" will be total futility and no opportunity to have won the national cup.


If Centrals don't win the SANFL flag, that will be the source of our angst and not that we didn't get to play Ainslie.
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Re: National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

Postby Hondo » Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:18 pm

Royal City wrote:If Centrals don't win the SANFL flag, that will be the source of our angst and not that we didn't get to play Ainslie.


You're missing my point. I think you'll win the flag anyway even if you were the only SANFL team to miss the byes.

I think Centrals are a great club and well enough coached and managed to win the SANFL flag AND this damned national comp on behalf of the SANFL! At the same time they give their players opportunities outside the SANFL comp to do things they likely would never be able to and their fans get double bragging rights. You seriously wouldn't want to claim the best state league club in Australia for 2011?

I want the best SANFL team to get the bragging rights in this 2nd tier comp.

They disagree, fine.
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