National 2nd Tier Competiton Discussion

[JK]

Some people continually overlook things to support their side of the argument .. I dont think you would find too many SANFL supporters in favour of keeping the bye if there was a way of eliminating it (although many who volunteer their time and service to the clubs would mostly disagree, and arguably our clubs rely more on volunteers now than ever before).

However, the point so many of the snipers seem to miss, is that for a SANFL team to not have a bye for an entire seasonwhen their opponents have several, is surely a significant disadvantage.

[Mickyj]

HARDEN THE #UCK UP.

West are more than welcome to go play .
While u are over there cheering for nothing .I'll stay here and watch my side in the finals.And hopefully win the Grand Final .

Rather sit and watch my Eagles in the finals and see the clolours on the chimney .Than say who won the champions league ?

Perhaps if your footy side did what u said above you'd make the finals !!

[Hondo]

However, the point so many of the snipers seem to miss, is that for a SANFL team to not have a bye for an entire seasonwhen their opponents have several, is surely a significant disadvantage.

I agree. That's why I think once one of the top 3 declined the others had to follow and were placed in a tough spot. It was either all in or all out for the top 3. I think the top 3 could have taken the "risk" as a group and still be best placed to win the SANFL premiership. Teams in the past have won a premiership and a second competition in the one season where there were no byes and they had to play mid week. The best team usually wins regardless.

While I respect the clubs' right to make their own decision, as a selfish supporter of North and the SANFL I want the teams to take the risk and go out and dominate this new competition. I am surprised more supporters of those 5 teams aren't taking a different view to their clubs official position as winning that comp would be an achievement to be proud of I reckon. North fans still talk about their champions of Aust win. I know it's not the same as this comp but, still. All the 5 clubs are talking about are the negatives I feel.

I am most sympathetic to Glenelg who are under the pump to perform in finals in 2011. As for the others, I still ask though how it's different to the GF teams of the WAFL and SANFL playing in the VFL night series. Or even VFL teams that weren't knocked out in round 1 playing more night series games than others or star players playing representative games. The SANFL teams had the right to rest any star players carrying niggles and let some reserves players go through the experience. There's other ways to manage missing the bye given that the other teams are presumably still training over their bye week.

There just my thoughts. If North were top 3 and pulled out I'd feel the same. I used to enjoy seeing teams play across different competitions.

[DOC]

Might also be the time to point out that you play four games if you make the final.

If the older players need a rest, give it to them and play the younger blokes. You are not compelled to send your'e best 22 or will it be 21.

How many clubs would go interstate for a trial under the same conditions? I think North and Sturt have in the last two years and I seem to recall both clubs spruiking the benefit and the supporters who went didn't have much bad too say IIRC.

[JK]

Might also be the time to point out that you play four games if you make the final.

If the older players need a rest, give it to them and play the younger blokes. You are not compelled to send your'e best 22 or will it be 21.

How many clubs would go interstate for a trial under the same conditions? I think North and Sturt have in the last two years and I seem to recall both clubs spruiking the benefit and the supporters who went didn't have much bad too say IIRC.

So why play in the competition if you're not expecting to give it a serious shake or having a full crack at it ... If you play your 18yr olds and they get bounced out in Round 1 by 10 goals what purpose has it served?

That's the way I personally look at it, appreciate others will view it differently and that's fine, but I reckon it's a bit rich for anyone to take a swipe at any club that isn't their own (not saying that's you in particular Doc) for taking a stance that differs.

I could sit here and hang crap on the 3 SA clubs that will participate, but why should I when they are doing what they believe is in their clubs best interest (as they should)? I'm glad my club has said no to it, but I genuinely wish Westies, North and Port the best of luck.

I've read a couple of times how these interstate games would be so good for the supporters - Yeah for those that can afford the $ or time to hit the road it probably would be, or those that live interstate (and still care enough about their SANFL club) - But I would think given the locality and affordability of our SANFL comp that would exclude more supporters than it would accommodate. (I know there is the Foxtel coverage aspect, but again that would exclude many too)

[Hondo]

The press release put out by the 4 clubs said "No, in it's current format".

Given that we still don't know which 3 clubs will go in I wonder if the door is still open for the top 3 clubs if the AFL and Fox decide they really want Centrals & co in and therefore will sweeten the deal.

[redandblack]

Good posts on opposite sides of the debate, Hondo & CP.

Naturally I share Hondo's frustration at some of the arguments put forward by those who oppose participation. An argument that it might jeopardise your team's premiership chances is fine - that remains to be seen, but at least is a reasonable argument. The rest - diatribes against the AFL, patronising comments about the teams taking part, dismissing comments by Graham Cornes just because it's Graham Cornes and spurious, incorrect arguments about sponsors not having their names on guernseys is disappointing.

So many have been calling for such a comp for years. If it's not organised by the AFL, who on earth do you think would organise it? They organised it, with pay TV, invited teams, accepted those who agreed and respected the decision of those who didn't. Nobody has yet put up any argument at all as to what they've done wrong with this, except for the usual mindless conspiracy theories.

As for my team, we haven't won a game after a bye for years, so I'm happy not to have them

PS: HOndo, too late for the refusing teams, but it will be interesting to see what happens the following season if it continues.

[Sojourner]

I thought i would never say this in my life time, but i have to agree with graham cornes collem in the advertiser today.Lets go back to when we didnt have the bye and we were playing escort cup preseason, thats how it is meant to be people, remember, the bye is there because of two sides merging, not because we whant it there.For some of the top sides this week to come out and say that they need the bye to rest their players in the quest for a premiship at the end of the season is laughable.Are these top sides that are in our comp saying , they are not as strong as teams from twenty and thirty years ago because they need the bye to rest up there players, i hope not.In the words of graham cornes in this weeks saturday advertiser, HARDEN THE #UCK UP.

Was an interesting article by G Cornes in the paper today, I have to say I totally agree. Refusal paints the SANFL as psisweak, pathetic and gutless and as the OP says without any ticker to take on the other sides in the nation. Huge step backwards for the SANFL in terms of advertising the competition locally and on the national stage. The club wins the SANFL grand finals and gets the greatest honour in football and is then degenerated by individuals in the public who ask either who? or imply that the reward itself is substandard because the club has not proved itself and earnt it on the national stage. If the SANFL wants to run after the AFL in terms of Corporate image over the history of what the colours of their club mean its fairly obvious that the SANFL will roll backwards pretty rapidly as people that are here because they hate that attitude in the AFL give up and drift away accordingly.

[Dirko]

But not many others . Weak as urine.

Glad to see they love taking slops.

At least Glenelg had the balls to say we didn't meet the qualifying requirements i.e Top 3 spot, and therefore why should we play in a competition we shouldn't be in, in the first place.

[Wedgie]

But not many others . Weak as urine.

Glad to see they love taking slops.

At least Glenelg had the balls to say we didn't meet the qualifying requirements i.e Top 3 spot, and therefore why should we play in a competition we shouldn't be in, in the first place.

I assume Derby don't play in the FA cup then?

[DOC]

So why play in the competition if you're not expecting to give it a serious shake or having a full crack at it ... If you play your 18yr olds and they get bounced out in Round 1 by 10 goals what purpose has it served?

That's the way I personally look at it, appreciate others will view it differently and that's fine, but I reckon it's a bit rich for anyone to take a swipe at any club that isn't their own (not saying that's you in particular Doc) for taking a stance that differs.

I could sit here and hang crap on the 3 SA clubs that will participate, but why should I when they are doing what they believe is in their clubs best interest (as they should)? I'm glad my club has said no to it, but I genuinely wish Westies, North and Port the best of luck.

I've read a couple of times how these interstate games would be so good for the supporters - Yeah for those that can afford the $ or time to hit the road it probably would be, or those that live interstate (and still care enough about their SANFL club) - But I would think given the locality and affordability of our SANFL comp that would exclude more supporters than it would accommodate. (I know there is the Foxtel coverage aspect, but again that would exclude many too)

Your'e points are well made.

1. Posters are saying "our under 18's would wipe the floor with half the sides in this comp". So I say give em a chance and rest the older ones.

2.I guess I was having a go at other clubs so feel free to say so. I just think this debate was getting a little to the side of were not playing so if you are you can't win a flag. South, like West, have been dreadful after byes and I would happily see them gone. To suggest that other clubs are dancing to the AFL tune to the detriment of other SANFL clubs has no basis in fact. At least not yet.

3. Are Port in?

[Dirko]

But not many others . Weak as urine.

Glad to see they love taking slops.

At least Glenelg had the balls to say we didn't meet the qualifying requirements i.e Top 3 spot, and therefore why should we play in a competition we shouldn't be in, in the first place.

I assume Derby don't play in the FA cup then?

What's the FA Cup got to do with this?

Seeing as they play in the Championship they are automatically eligible. So what's your point?

[Aerie]

If my team wins the 2011 premiership I couldn't care less if they participate in the Champions League or not...

I'm a bit disappointed they are not involved though. Would have liked to see. Hopefully the concept continues and the clubs involved are shown more respect with regards to financial incentives and timing in the future.

[Wedgie]

Good to see the point made only went flying straight over the heads of only 2 posters so far.

[Wedgie]

But not many others . Weak as urine.

Glad to see they love taking slops.

At least Glenelg had the balls to say we didn't meet the qualifying requirements i.e Top 3 spot, and therefore why should we play in a competition we shouldn't be in, in the first place.

I assume Derby don't play in the FA cup then?

What's the FA Cup got to do with this?

Seeing as they play in the Championship they are automatically eligible. So what's your point?

Woosh, and another bouncer goes through to the keeper without the batsman seeing it.

You said Glenelg didn't meet the qualifying requirements of entering the comp yet there is no requirement as far as where teams were on the ladder just like the FA Cup.
Last time I looked Glenelg played in the same comp as Central, North or South. (Unless they've defected to the South Australian National Choking League and haven't put out a media release yet).

There is no "qualifying requirement" as you stated. The top 3 teams get an invitation first due to the logistics and cost of including every team.
The only "requirement" is that those clubs are in the league and they accept the invitation if offered to them. If they choose not to it slips down to the next team.
If Glenelg actually said that was the reason why they wouldn't accept an invitation they are lying or incompetent.
BUT I think you and I know there's other reasons.
Its a simple point.

[dogs01]

How can playing Ainslie at football park in april be a big disadvantage? I dont get all this we need the bye B.S.
I will always back my team 100% but i just dont understand their logic in this one. They can easily look after their list by playing guys that may find it hard to get opportunities during the year, and if they lose they are out so what is the big deal.
I just hope that in a couple of years time if this comp. gets bigger and the prize money gets alot larger that we decide to jump on board.
I think people are more upset that this is an AFL/FOXTEL initiative that it blinds their judgement.
Who knows that with these extra games that north,port and west play it might actually help them in THEIR quest for a flag.
Like most things in life there will be teething problems but in the end this could become bigger than the SANFL. Are people ready for that? I dont think so.

[once_were_warriors]

Good to see the point made only went flying straight over the heads of only 2 posters so far.

I think you need a compass, you continually keep going round in circles.

No direction in your point

[Barto]

When someone doesn't fit in with what you think they should be doing, call them weak and gutless.

[JK]

So why play in the competition if you're not expecting to give it a serious shake or having a full crack at it ... If you play your 18yr olds and they get bounced out in Round 1 by 10 goals what purpose has it served?

That's the way I personally look at it, appreciate others will view it differently and that's fine, but I reckon it's a bit rich for anyone to take a swipe at any club that isn't their own (not saying that's you in particular Doc) for taking a stance that differs.

I could sit here and hang crap on the 3 SA clubs that will participate, but why should I when they are doing what they believe is in their clubs best interest (as they should)? I'm glad my club has said no to it, but I genuinely wish Westies, North and Port the best of luck.

I've read a couple of times how these interstate games would be so good for the supporters - Yeah for those that can afford the $ or time to hit the road it probably would be, or those that live interstate (and still care enough about their SANFL club) - But I would think given the locality and affordability of our SANFL comp that would exclude more supporters than it would accommodate. (I know there is the Foxtel coverage aspect, but again that would exclude many too)

Your'e points are well made.

1. Posters are saying "our under 18's would wipe the floor with half the sides in this comp". So I say give em a chance and rest the older ones.

2.I guess I was having a go at other clubs so feel free to say so. I just think this debate was getting a little to the side of were not playing so if you are you can't win a flag. South, like West, have been dreadful after byes and I would happily see them gone. To suggest that other clubs are dancing to the AFL tune to the detriment of other SANFL clubs has no basis in fact. At least not yet.

3. Are Port in?

Mate, very fair post (and yours too R&B) .. In both cases I respect your opinions and the manner in which you've expressed/debated them.

1. I've never really prescribed to the theory that the SANFL is so strong that our clubs u/18's could win these matches, I think that shows the same contempt toward other leagues that most of us hate receiving (perceived or legit) from the AFL.

2. I dont think for a minute that playing in this comp makes it impossible to win the SANFL flag .. I do think it has the potential to make it harder though (if making the GF and forgoing all SANFL byes), but just IMO .. Whilst I'm always ultra wary of the AFL, I dont know what happens inside their ivory tower so I couldn't know if there's any hidden agenda or it should be accepted at face value as a new and regular innovation - Obviously I hope it's the latter.

R&B - I haven't heard or read an official release on the matter, but from what I was told by an official source at our club is that Foxtel would be plastered all over the guernseys and that our official club sponsor could have no more than a small space on the shorts - Something that I don't believe would sit well with them, and their contribution to our club is too vital to jeopardise in the current climate.

[redandblack]

Fair point about the sponsor, CP, but anything they get in this comp is extra to what they expected and gives them national exposure.

As Foxtel are sponsoring the whole comp (I presume), it would be reasonable for them to have the major exposure.

As I said, the club sponsor is getting extra exposure (albeit minor), totally free.