AFL Reserves Discussion...

[beenreal]

Well known local Football Commentator / Journalist / Writer Chris Kendall has given me permission to post his thoughts which he has put up elsewhere but I thought it deserved an "airing" on here:

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I've largely stayed out of this debate, because in my various roles in the media, people hear enough of my views as it is on many topics.

On this topic, however, it is not possible for me to be any more against having either Adelaide or Port competing in the league competition. Competing in the reserves alone is a fair compromise for me, but as for competing in the SANFL league competition, give me strength....

- You bet the SANFL competition will be compromised if either club plays at league level but for no points. What on earth is the incentive for any club to do this? What do the AFL sides gain from what becomes, essentially, a glorified trial match. See how anyone goes asking Nathan Bassett, Roy Laird or Josh Francou to risk their best 21 players in a match for no points. Why should they? We will, therefore, get matches that are a group of kids from the SANFL against a similar team of kids/players returning from injury/rookie list players. Exactly what incentive is there for fans to attend and pay money to watch that?

- Why completely destroy the fabric of a competition that has stood since 1877? The competition will become next to meaningless by admitting a composite club that has existed since 1991 and the jumbled history of a club that has alternately stood since 1877 or 1997, depending on who you believe in football. Make no mistake - bring this in, and the complete fabric we grew up with will disappear and never be restored.

- Exactly where will the 2,000 or so AFL club fans that will be needed to pay and attend matches - either at the gate or by variations of current AFL membership packages - magically appear to make the financial breakeven points for a SANFL match, in conjunction with the fans of their SANFL opponent on the day.

- There seems some type of romantic notion that a Crows team will somehow bring the likes of Dangerfield, Thompson, Sloane and Walker running around Elizabeth Oval. Unless these ilk are returning from injury, that will not happen. Each AFL club has 44 players on their list. 22 of these are required on match day, including up to 3 emergencies. So we are immediately down to a maximum of 19 players available for selection. On a good week, 6 of these will be unavailable due to injury. So, we are now down to a maximum of 13 players available for selection, many of whom are already plying their trade in SANFL reserves. The club now needs to find at least eight MORE players to field an SANFL team on the day, so if they are drawn from either country or SAAFL clubs, how competitive will that team be at senior SANFL level? Will they win games, or more likely, be beaten by 10 goals or more? Beyond this notion that it will "unite them all to the same game plan", how much benefit is really derived long term from getting belted most weeks?

I could ramble on for pages about this, but have made my thoughts clear in the past on it. There is virtually NO TANGIBLE BENEFIT to the SANFL clubs in accepting either AFL club fielding a team in the senior SANFL competition. If, as per Michelangelo Rucci's excellent column this week about Port shifting their operations in SANFL to the reserves and both clubs fielding Academy teams as the 9th and 10th reserves teams, therefore removing the Magpies from senior SANFL (which hurts the fabric on its own, but is the best compromise possible IF Port are determined to have a reserves team), the clubs field teams in the reserves - this at least preserves more of the integrity of the SANFL that any sort of idea to introduce them to the league competition. .
C.K
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What a load of emotional cods wallop, from a "journalist" that can't even get our foundation date right (try 1870).

"Yes we all love the SANFL, lets never change anything, ever, ever, ever"

[Aerie]

Regarding this AFL Reserves debate, please fill in the gaps:

Port Adelaide Football Club: CARDS LAID (Have provided a proposal and solution, what they want is clear and could work, like it or not.)
Adelaide Football Club: NEED ANSWER (Want reserves and want a decision by September but haven't told us how/where/what...)
Glenelg Football Club: NEED ANSWER
Sturt Football Club: NEED ANSWER
Woodville-West Torrens Football Club: NEED ANSWER
North Adelaide Football Club: NEED ANSWER
West Adelaide Football Club: NEED ANSWER
Central District Football Club: NEED ANSWER
South Adelaide Football Club: NEED ANSWER
Norwood Football Club: NEED ANSWER
SA Football Commission: NEED BETTER ANSWER (Said last week it was last on a long list of things to do...)
AFL: NEED BETTER ANSWER (National 2nd Tier manager said last week ideally there would be AFL Reserves in the SANFL league competition).

[UK Fan]

Maybe you should have posted that early on, instead of being a smart arse. ;-)

That was directed at booney. Not otr. Don't want an angry pm. ;-)

Good on you the Darwin "Dogger'!

Hahahaha!!!

[The Sleeping Giant]

Well known local Football Commentator / Journalist / Writer Chris Kendall has given me permission to post his thoughts which he has put up elsewhere but I thought it deserved an "airing" on here:

**********************************************************************************************
I've largely stayed out of this debate, because in my various roles in the media, people hear enough of my views as it is on many topics.

On this topic, however, it is not possible for me to be any more against having either Adelaide or Port competing in the league competition. Competing in the reserves alone is a fair compromise for me, but as for competing in the SANFL league competition, give me strength....

- You bet the SANFL competition will be compromised if either club plays at league level but for no points. What on earth is the incentive for any club to do this? What do the AFL sides gain from what becomes, essentially, a glorified trial match. See how anyone goes asking Nathan Bassett, Roy Laird or Josh Francou to risk their best 21 players in a match for no points. Why should they? We will, therefore, get matches that are a group of kids from the SANFL against a similar team of kids/players returning from injury/rookie list players. Exactly what incentive is there for fans to attend and pay money to watch that?

- Why completely destroy the fabric of a competition that has stood since 1877? The competition will become next to meaningless by admitting a composite club that has existed since 1991 and the jumbled history of a club that has alternately stood since 1877 or 1997, depending on who you believe in football. Make no mistake - bring this in, and the complete fabric we grew up with will disappear and never be restored.

- Exactly where will the 2,000 or so AFL club fans that will be needed to pay and attend matches - either at the gate or by variations of current AFL membership packages - magically appear to make the financial breakeven points for a SANFL match, in conjunction with the fans of their SANFL opponent on the day.

- There seems some type of romantic notion that a Crows team will somehow bring the likes of Dangerfield, Thompson, Sloane and Walker running around Elizabeth Oval. Unless these ilk are returning from injury, that will not happen. Each AFL club has 44 players on their list. 22 of these are required on match day, including up to 3 emergencies. So we are immediately down to a maximum of 19 players available for selection. On a good week, 6 of these will be unavailable due to injury. So, we are now down to a maximum of 13 players available for selection, many of whom are already plying their trade in SANFL reserves. The club now needs to find at least eight MORE players to field an SANFL team on the day, so if they are drawn from either country or SAAFL clubs, how competitive will that team be at senior SANFL level? Will they win games, or more likely, be beaten by 10 goals or more? Beyond this notion that it will "unite them all to the same game plan", how much benefit is really derived long term from getting belted most weeks?

I could ramble on for pages about this, but have made my thoughts clear in the past on it. There is virtually NO TANGIBLE BENEFIT to the SANFL clubs in accepting either AFL club fielding a team in the senior SANFL competition. If, as per Michelangelo Rucci's excellent column this week about Port shifting their operations in SANFL to the reserves and both clubs fielding Academy teams as the 9th and 10th reserves teams, therefore removing the Magpies from senior SANFL (which hurts the fabric on its own, but is the best compromise possible IF Port are determined to have a reserves team), the clubs field teams in the reserves - this at least preserves more of the integrity of the SANFL that any sort of idea to introduce them to the league competition. .
C.K
**********************************************************************************************

What a load of emotional cods wallop, from a "journalist" that can't even get our foundation date right (try 1870).

"Yes we all love the SANFL, lets never change anything."

Well it is quite an emotional topic. A lot of people really do love the sanfl the way it is. And have already have had enough "compromising" over the last 21 years.

[Armytank]

The SANFL is always changing, so don't pull that line. And supporters of the SANFL I believe would have no issue with any change to the league if it proved to be for the good of the competition and health of the league.

Once again Port/Crows are only in it for themselves, which is fine from the Port/Crows perspective. But the Port/Crows tail should not wag the SANFL dog.

There is not a single model that shows it would be beneficial for the SANFL to return to a 10 team comp with the magpies being a Power reserves team and the tenth team being a Crows reserves OR a 9 team comp with the crows swallowing an existing SANFL club.

To suggest that peoples aversion to AFL intrusion into the SANFL is a NIMBY attitude again shows no respect for the competition that spawned your club.

[on the rails]

Was that your only comeback / answer to what was a great article beenreal - picking on a date "typo"???

Did you email your other "allies" and come up with that "informative response" collectively?

[CENTURION]

The SANFL is always changing, so don't pull that line. And supporters of the SANFL I believe would have no issue with any change to the league if it proved to be for the good of the competition and health of the league.

Once again Port/Crows are only in it for themselves, which is fine from the Port/Crows perspective. But the Port/Crows tail should not wag the SANFL dog.

There is not a single model that shows it would be beneficial for the SANFL to return to a 10 team comp with the magpies being a Power reserves team and the tenth team being a Crows reserves OR a 9 team comp with the crows swallowing an existing SANFL club.

To suggest that peoples aversion to AFL intrusion into the SANFL is a NIMBY attitude again shows no respect for the competition that spawned your club.

A splendid response.

[CUTTERMAN]

To me it's simple.
Want to join a football competition? Make a submission and agree to play by the structures and rules of that competition, if by default you can't possibly achieve that, then you can't join, if you choose not to follow the rules and structures then you don't deserve to be in.
No matter what side of the argument you come from its important to ask "is what I'm asking for my club the same as I would want for an opposition club"?
The silver rule- "One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated"

I'm sure Port and Adelaide supporters would never agree to be competing in the AFL with other clubs having a salary cap 20x that of their own, or other clubs having discreet access to draft players that they can't draft, or access to any direct AFL funding. They would be squealing. Yet they thump their collective chests at some imagined entitlement to do as they want with the SANFL comp, all the while blaming the SANFL itself for all the hidden agendas and woes they've ever experienced. For this reason alone I'd tell them to **** off.

On another note concerning the PAFC, I've had many friends and supporters tell me how all their woes recently is due to the SANFL, that the SANFL is taking their money that they generate, that the crap committee and boards have been installed by the SANFL, etc etc. Funny now that they have a glimmer of hope none of it is directed back to the good work of the SANFL, that the SANFL have helped start them up and stood by them all this time. No, never, it was their fault, all of it.
Nope, history has spoken for Port, they are not to be trusted.
Adelaide can please themselves in the SANFL reserves as can Port. This is the compromise, take it or leave it. They will do more damage to their "brand" than they ever imagined if they try to bully or bribe their way in.

[beenreal]

To me it's simple.
Want to join a football competition? Make a submission and agree to play by the structures and rules of that competition, if by default you can't possibly achieve that, then you can't join, if you choose not to follow the rules and structures then you don't deserve to be in.
No matter what side of the argument you come from its important to ask "is what I'm asking for my club the same as I would want for an opposition club"?
The silver rule- "One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated"

I'm sure Port and Adelaide supporters would never agree to be competing in the AFL with other clubs having a salary cap 20x that of their own, or other clubs having discreet access to draft players that they can't draft, or access to any direct AFL funding. They would be squealing. Yet they thump their collective chests at some imagined entitlement to do as they want with the SANFL comp, all the while blaming the SANFL itself for all the hidden agendas and woes they've ever experienced. For this reason alone I'd tell them to **** off.

On another note concerning the PAFC, I've had many friends and supporters tell me how all their woes recently is due to the SANFL, that the SANFL is taking their money that they generate, that the crap committee and boards have been installed by the SANFL, etc etc. Funny now that they have a glimmer of hope none of it is directed back to the good work of the SANFL, that the SANFL have helped start them up and stood by them all this time. No, never, it was their fault, all of it.
Nope, history has spoken for Port, they are not to be trusted.
Adelaide can please themselves in the SANFL reserves as can Port. This is the compromise, take it or leave it. They will do more damage to their "brand" than they ever imagined if they try to bully or bribe their way in.

Interesting analogy and so very pertinent. A condition of AFL submission was the maintenance of an SANFL side. Subsequent to awarding of the License, Doug Thomas lead a fear campaign against the Magpies becoming too dominant, resulting in certain actions.

Thus the question, how should Port Adelaide feel they were TREATED at being kicked out of their home of 100+ years, banished to the wastelands of Ethelton and having to spend the money received for their assets on setting up a new training facility, thus leaving no resources to move forward?

[smac]

Given that Port Adelaide agreed to all of the conditions, I couldn't give a figs how they feel.

Don't create an 'us versus the rest' culture and expect 'the rest' to ever feel sorry for you.

[Ronnie]

Rucci is now putting it out there that the SANFL CEO's are heavily in favour of AFL reserves in SANFL comp. Surely this is a wind up
Unless, what he really means is the SANFL reserves comp only, but you can never really tell with Rucci, he leaves himself so much wriggle room.

[Booney]

Maybe you should have posted that early on, instead of being a smart arse. ;-)

That was directed at booney. Not otr. Don't want an angry pm. ;-)

Perhaps, but I thought I had made my position clear enough.

[mighty_tiger_79]

i heard a caller to a sports show mentioning an AFL reserves comp

but was shot down because the cost of a reserves team is upwards of $500,000

a few things i dont understand is if the AFL is the biggest sport in the country how come it doesnt have a reserves comp whereas other sports who dont receive nearly the same media coverage nationwide can have a reserves comp?

is it time that a team is re-located to tassie permanently??

if an AFL reserves comp was put in place, yes the standards of state leagues may drop but it would stop the compromising that goes on.

the AFL surely generate enough cash flow to help subsidise such a comp?

if the afl clubs had their reserves play before the main game wouldnt that help with fans getting to the ground earlier and therefore spending more money on food and bevvies???

im sure fox footy would create another station to have the reserves on, or if not it is only a matter of time before we see Crows TV streaming all their games live via the net etc.....

[Harry the Horse]

Rucci is now putting it out there that the SANFL CEO's are heavily in favour of AFL reserves in SANFL comp. Surely this is a wind up
Unless, what he really means is the SANFL reserves comp only, but you can never really tell with Rucci, he leaves himself so much wriggle room.

Ask yourself who the CEOs are?
Many have only been at their club a short time and either have connections with AFL clubs or little history in football and can therefore be influenced.
The Presidents and/or league directors however have long connections with their clubs. That's why they hold the position. They will not be moved.
Fortunately, the CEOs don't get a vote.

[Apachebulldog]

Kendalls article spot on and i am in agreement the Crows and Power/Maggies to play in the SANFL reserves our League comp MUST NOT be compromised personally i would prefer the Crows and Power in an AFL reserves competition if it ever eventuates. Anyhow there should not be any more whinging moaning and groaning from at least 95 % of Power/Magpie supporters as it was their majority decision back in 1996 to desert the SANFL comp and go and play with the VICS however i do feel for those true diehard supporters who have stuck with the Maggies through thick and thin these supporters might now have to witness the destruction of the legendary Magpie brand so really in the end there is no ones else to blame but the Port Adelaide Football Club so you can all stop playing the blame game.

[CENTURION]

and if you can recite all that without taking a breath YOU'RE A BLOODY LEGEND!

[Reddeer]

Allow Crows and Port to play in League grade but charge them top dollar for the privilege. On top of that any of their players who have represented the AFL team during the season are ineligible to play in the finals

[beenreal]

Kendalls article spot on and i am in agreement the Crows and Power/Maggies to play in the SANFL reserves our League comp MUST NOT be compromised personally i would prefer the Crows and Power in an AFL reserves competition if it ever eventuates. Anyhow there should not be any more whinging moaning and groaning from at least 95 % of Power/Magpie supporters as it was their majority decision back in 1996 to desert the SANFL comp and go and play with the VICS however i do feel for those true diehard supporters who have stuck with the Maggies through thick and thin these supporters might now have to witness the destruction of the legendary Magpie brand so really in the end there is no ones else to blame but the Port Adelaide Football Club so you can all stop playing the blame game.

Again an ironic position coming from the supporter of a club that was prepared to wind up their entire operation in order to compromise the SANFL by joining the national League.

As for the predictable response from SMAC. Not one Port supporter expects anything close to sympathy from any of you. The simple facts are, the PAFC along with all other participants in the bidding process agreed and signed off on the express conditions of the License. The move to Ethelton was then tabled after based on fear and paranoia. That certainly presents an interesting perspective on who can be trusted.

[Wedgie]

Christ, you and your family get a lot of sympathy from me! My thoughts and love are with you mate.

[Armytank]

I love how nothing is ever Port's fault.

I wish I was that Teflon