AFL Reserves Discussion...

[Aerie]

What was the format of the meeting? Was it just fire away questions and Chigwidden answered? I was surprised to read on the Snouts that someone had to ask Chigwidden what he was voting? Did he make a convincing case for why he was voting yes?

[Dutchy]

About 100 at the meeting, essentially -

> Basically told the existing members their thoughts dont matter
> Not a financial decision
> Need to accept AFL not piss them off
> Only plan for crowds of 1000-1500 for games against the Crows
> Port Magpies will be Power's reserves team in 2014, they will flip and Kochie will look like the good guy
> SANFL Grand Final will be before the AFL Grand Final, again diluting its relevance
> Chiggy didn't enjoy the meeting and stopped the meeting when there were plenty more questions

Probably more but I walked out shaking my head...

[saintal]

Any mention of a single benefit to the club/league, or is the fear factor of cutting off the AFL links the major issue?

"Not a financial decision" eh?

At least he was right about the crowd figures

[grant j]

What was the format of the meeting? Was it just fire away questions and Chigwidden answered? I was surprised to read on the Snouts that someone had to ask Chigwidden what he was voting? Did he make a convincing case for why he was voting yes?

Chiggy updated the situation and put his side that in HIS eyes this was the best option for the Footy in this state.

After he said what he needed to say Chiggy opened up the floor and people were able to ask questions and he answered.

Finally Ecky asked him directly if he was voting yes, and he answered that he would be voting yes.

Did he make a convincing case, no. I don't think anyone leaving the room had changed their minds

I think once again it is the fear factor with the AFL again. Don't let it happen and they go to the Ammos and it stuffs up the SANFL and the Ammos benefit or let them in and it may not stuff up the SANFL

[on the rails]

North's meeting tomorrow night is just a "facade" / smokescreen to appease the members who wanted an Information Night so the Board or should I say more the President / CEO can claim they were being fair to the masses. The Board (well most of them) have been hoodwinked and sold the SANFL line by the President and CEO despite so many unanswered questions prior to any vote - eg the top up player issue.

Tomorrow night is going to be a waste of time for North members as our President will vote YES and he is using the disclaimer attached to his position as a League Director that he can and must vote with independence of the club that has elected him to that position if their wishes don't equal his or that of the League!

Out of all the club Presidents Bohdan is the most decorated in terms of his time as a player in the SANFL and sadly in the VFL but sadly that means sweet FA to him in his quest to retire to a Commission post in the next year or two.

Despite very vigourous denials from all those at the SANFL which include the League Directors, the pressure from the Greek Lawyer and co. in Melbourne has ultimately led to the decision that will forever change the face of SA Football and past the point of no return to where we are now and even that is a compromised agreement to how it was in the good old days pre-1991.

Tommorow night could well be the last time I visit Prospect Oval!

[Dutchy]

Some more -

> Clubs could choose to provide top up players or not
> Would be known as the Crows in the comp and wear their jumper
> Hates the fact he is going against the members wishes
> League Directors will more than likely be asked for a vote this Thursday

[grant j]

Some more -

> Clubs could choose to provide top up players or not
> Would be known as the Crows in the comp and wear their jumper
> Hates the fact he is going against the members wishes
> League Directors will more than likely be asked for a vote this Thursday

Dutchy point 2 is incorrect

Chiggy said as far as HE was concerned he can't see why they shouldn't be named the Crows and play in the same guernsey

[Jim05]

Chiggy should of been lynched by the crowd
What a piece of $hit

[Dutchy]

Some more -

> Clubs could choose to provide top up players or not
> Would be known as the Crows in the comp and wear their jumper
> Hates the fact he is going against the members wishes
> League Directors will more than likely be asked for a vote this Thursday

Dutchy point 2 is incorrect

Chiggy said as far as HE was concerned he can't see why they shouldn't be named the Crows and play in the same guernsey

Pretty sure he said this will be one of the changes the Directors have discussed...

[Pseudo]

I went to the meeting. Will mull over what was spoken before posting any significant reaction here.

This battle is lost but the war goes on. Time to swing support behind those clubs who might yet vote NO.

[grant j]

Chiggy should of been lynched by the crowd
What a piece of $hit

Don't be too harsh on Chiggy, your mob might be voting the same way too

[on the rails]

Some more -

> Clubs could choose to provide top up players or not
> Would be known as the Crows in the comp and wear their jumper
> Hates the fact he is going against the members wishes
> League Directors will more than likely be asked for a vote this Thursday

Re the above 4 points:

The top up player issue is a big mess. I was told that the vote will be YES and the clubs and the Crows will sort this out before season 2014 starts. So much for due diligence and not being rushed into a poor / quick decisions!

So Crows will be able to grow their supporter base slowly with the SANFL converts or more to the point the kids of the current SANFL diehards who will be go with the "cool" - it is not fashionable / cool to follow a SANFL club for many young kids.

Hates going against the members wishes - why the f..k is he then as is the case with the other Presidents who have clearly been "got at" via Al Capone - whoops I meant Andrew xxxxxx

Pressured to rush into a vote under threat and intimdation before alot of the shit is sorted and the SANFL not holding out for real answers and real money. 3rd grade feeder comp here we come!

[Dutchy]

Tomorrow night is going to be a waste of time for North members as our President will vote YES and he is using the disclaimer attached to his position as a League Director that he can and must vote with independence of the club that has elected him to that position if their wishes don't equal his or that of the League!

That was trotted out by Chiggy tonight, and Slaven at the Eagles, seems like they have been well schooled...

[on the rails]

Just as a side note - the NAFC Board met last week and agreed to the date of the "Information" Bullshit night being tomorrow night but deliberatly delayed announcing the date until Monday just gone was a calculated / deliberate ploy to ensure the President and CEO limit the number of attendees so they don't have to answer to many hard questions with an large angry mob!

[maxyoz]

About 100 at the meeting, essentially -

> Basically told the existing members their thoughts dont matter
> Not a financial decision
> Need to accept AFL not piss them off
> Only plan for crowds of 1000-1500 for games against the Crows
> Port Magpies will be Power's reserves team in 2014, they will flip and Kochie will look like the good guy
> SANFL Grand Final will be before the AFL Grand Final, again diluting its relevance
> Chiggy didn't enjoy the meeting and stopped the meeting when there were plenty more questions

Probably more but I walked out shaking my head...

Not quite correct, but no point arguing.

[Ecky]

The things that Chiggy said at the meeting tonight that annoyed me the most were

He claimed that the "Crows coming in doesn't affect the integrity of the SANFL" as he had long discussions with both clubs and the AFL teams are adamant that they will play to win as they need to protect their brand...

He was convinced that the Crows entering the amateur league would be the death of the SANFL and we can't let this happen - he said that it will be too hard to retain players in the SANFL and we need to keep the pathway to the AFL via the SANFL. It was only in discussions afterwards that he conceded to a few of us that the Crows going to the amateurs would be the best option integrity-wise for the SANFL. One comment I made was that I believe we stand to lose much more than this through loss of supporters (adults now and kids in the future) by saying yes to the Crows.

He insisted that we needed to work WITH the Crows on junior development and that Crows players promoting Glenelg vs Crows games would be beneficial for Glenelg. This was despite quite a few concerned comments from the audience along the lines of it will be much harder to get kids to follow Glenelg when the Crows are playing against us. At the moment it is logical for kids to follow Glenelg in the SANFL and the Crows in the AFL but it will be much harder to convince kids to follow Glenelg at all when their team, the Crows, becomes a rival to us in the SANFL.

Overall he was very sure in himself that he had made the right decision and there was nothing we could do or say that could change his position one little bit I tried my best though guys...

[Ecky]

Just as a side note - the NAFC Board met last week and agreed to the date of the "Information" Bullshit night being tomorrow night but deliberatly delayed announcing the date until Monday just gone was a calculated / deliberate ploy to ensure the President and CEO limit the number of attendees so they don't have to answer to many hard questions with an large angry mob!

I suspect the same approach was used at Glenelg - announce the meeting as late as possible during a week where Glenelg had the bye

[UK Fan]

The things that Chiggy said at the meeting tonight that annoyed me the most were

He claimed that the "Crows coming in doesn't affect the integrity of the SANFL" as he had long discussions with both clubs and the AFL teams are adamant that they will play to win as they need to protect their brand...

He was convinced that the Crows entering the amateur league would be the death of the SANFL and we can't let this happen - he said that it will be too hard to retain players in the SANFL and we need to keep the pathway to the AFL via the SANFL. It was only in discussions afterwards that he conceded to a few of us that the Crows going to the amateurs would be the best option integrity-wise for the SANFL. One comment I made was that I believe we stand to lose much more than this through loss of supporters (adults now and kids in the future) by saying yes to the Crows.

He insisted that we needed to work WITH the Crows on junior development and that Crows players promoting Glenelg vs Crows games would be beneficial for Glenelg. This was despite quite a few concerned comments from the audience along the lines of it will be much harder to get kids to follow Glenelg when the Crows are playing against us. At the moment it is logical for kids to follow Glenelg in the SANFL and the Crows in the AFL but it will be much harder to convince kids to follow Glenelg at all when their team, the Crows, becomes a rival to us in the SANFL.

Overall he was very sure in himself that he had made the right decision and there was nothing we could do or say that could change his position one little bit I tried my best though guys...

Good effort Ecky. If this is still going in two weeks ill pm you re:chigwidden at playford alive in two weeks

Happy to make his day as in uncomfortable as possible

[zipzap]

He insisted that we needed to work WITH the Crows on junior development and that Crows players promoting Glenelg vs Crows games would be beneficial for Glenelg.

Sad news all round...thanks all for the summaries. It gave me at least a slightly different perspective about the pressures that someone like Chiggy must be contending with. But at the end of the day, for a community-based bunch of clubs not pay any respect to its constituents by inviting even the most minimal of input...well, what hope have we got?

BTW the much-trumpeted increased Crows junior development commitment is a load of carp. They already do this, admittedly really badly and in an extremely tokenistic manner, but I don't see any extra commitment here at all. We recently had the 'Crows in Schools' session at my place of work - Petrenko basically admitted to the kids through gritted teeth it was a contractual obligation. McKernan and Hartigan had some sniggers about having to play at South. The Norwood pups who came with them were given short shrift - didn't even get introduced. They gave out some crap '19th Man' members stickers from a couple of seasons ago and did some extremely basic, mind numbing drills. To be fair, Rory Sloane was actually very polished but the rest of them did not want to be there.

(Russell Ebert's Power Community Youth program is significantly better in my experience BTW).

[csbowes]

It seems to me that it will be 8-0 in favour.

I thought my club was the only one that disrespected members, but it seems other clubs are just as good at it. For shame...

The bottom line is most members don't care, I see it every year at the AGMs, people don't like what they hear but say nothing.

David Burtenshaw said we don't represent the SANFL public, he is probably right, we are old school, everyone else is AFL centric and frankly, can't be bothered criticising their club for poor decisions.

Everyone deserted the league in 1991, they're just doing it again.