AFL Reserves Discussion...

[Dogwatcher]

Different scenario. The VFL, (formerly VFA) was never the premier competition in Victoria. Thus the crowds of now are pretty much similar to what they have always been.

Back in the heyday, (the age of relevance) Glenelg, Norwood, North etc. would regularly attract 10-15,000+ to a match. The likes of Box Hill or Port Melbourne could only dream of those numbers.

Not quite correct. Until the 1980s the VFA crowds weren't much inferior to the SANFL crowds and certainly much better than the current SANFL crowds.

For example, I know it was a Grand Final but in 1976 :
Port Melbourne 19.18.132 d Dandenong 10.15.75
Crowd: 32,317
Sure the VFA had a niche market in that they played on Sundays and the VFL were not allowed to, but until the advent of VFL Sunday football in the mid 190s Port Melbourne and WIlliamstown in particular drew crowds of 10,000-15,000 quite regularly.

Thank you.
An informed response to another rubbish beenreal post.

I think Robranisgod's post doesnt counter beenreals post though, as the 1976 SANFL grand final drew 66,987 which is more than double the VFA crowd.....

The underlined bits suggest it does.

[Mr Beefy]

I guess it depends on the "age of relevance", I'm sure it wasn't the 190s. Perhaps now and the next few years are the age of "relevance".

[Ecky]

Debating where to put this thread in the pantheon of SA Footy threads: Pseudo's Mice thread, The Running Sheet, Eric, REBs Seven Deadly sins of the Glenelg Football Club, Duromine v Professional Athlete, The 2007 GFthread (Schuburt v Gowans)?
Absolute gold
Dubious facts, even more dubious opinions, shifting alliances, multiple attacks from both sides of the argument, simmering tensions, quality!

Pseudo also gave us the vasectomy thread. I'm not sure the Eric thread is quite in the esteemed company of the other nominations, not just yet anyway. Dear Dr.REB certainly has some value.

When the judges vote, I am sure this will come under serious consideration. (Perhaps the 300+ threads on this subject should be merged?)

My nomination is the 57 page Reasons to vote No thread (to the Adelaide Oval Redevelopment), http://www.safooty.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32303, and the subsequent "Lies start to surface" thread, especially as so many of the concerns of us "no" voters have already been unfortunately proven correct.

[BrekkyDJ]

It's bad, bad news for the SANFL if the Power and the Crows can field a 'reserves' side in the SANFL seniors. (more so The Crows).

Speaking from the VFA/VFL experience, it creates a logistical nightmare and even hurts the finances of the other clubs.

First of all, it would mean the SANFL Seniors and Reserves fixture would be out of whack (10 teams in the seniors, 9 teams in the reserves). VFL has it worse, 14 senior sides, 10 reserves sides!

Second, we found supporters of AFL 'reserve sides' don't attend away games in any great number. When we play a traditional VFA club, there's a decent crowd and takings are good. When we play an AFL reserves, the crowd and takings are poor (excluding finals).

Third, club culture. After a match against a traditional VFA rival, their supporters, players and officials will come to the post-match and stick around for an hour. When against an AFL reserves side, they don't bother to come in - effecting atmosphere and takings.

The only benefit of an AFL reserves side is during the finals. If they make it (and with less AFL games on TV due to their finals), the TV audience sky-rockets.

In the end, as proven in the VFA/VFL experiment, AFL reserves sides in the comp are good for them and them alone. Not the competition or the other clubs.

[heater31]

Finally a perspective from over the border

[whufc]

It's bad, bad news for the SANFL if the Power and the Crows can field a 'reserves' side in the SANFL seniors. (more so The Crows).

Speaking from the VFA/VFL experience, it creates a logistical nightmare and even hurts the finances of the other clubs.

First of all, it would mean the SANFL Seniors and Reserves fixture would be out of whack (10 teams in the seniors, 9 teams in the reserves). VFL has it worse, 14 senior sides, 10 reserves sides!

Second, we found supporters of AFL 'reserve sides' don't attend away games in any great number. When we play a traditional VFA club, there's a decent crowd and takings are good. When we play an AFL reserves, the crowd and takings are poor (excluding finals).

Third, club culture. After a match against a traditional VFA rival, their supporters, players and officials will come to the post-match and stick around for an hour. When against an AFL reserves side, they don't bother to come in - effecting atmosphere and takings.

The only benefit of an AFL reserves side is during the finals. If they make it (and with less AFL games on TV due to their finals), the TV audience sky-rockets.


In the end, as proven in the VFA/VFL experiment, AFL reserves sides in the comp are good for them and them alone. Not the competition or the other clubs.

Great post mate, greatly appreciated!

Unfortunately you will now be told your a moron, who can't read, are you dumb etc etc by a few who can only see one view.

[UK Fan]

It's bad, bad news for the SANFL if the Power and the Crows can field a 'reserves' side in the SANFL seniors. (more so The Crows).

Speaking from the VFA/VFL experience, it creates a logistical nightmare and even hurts the finances of the other clubs.

First of all, it would mean the SANFL Seniors and Reserves fixture would be out of whack (10 teams in the seniors, 9 teams in the reserves). VFL has it worse, 14 senior sides, 10 reserves sides!

Second, we found supporters of AFL 'reserve sides' don't attend away games in any great number. When we play a traditional VFA club, there's a decent crowd and takings are good. When we play an AFL reserves, the crowd and takings are poor (excluding finals).

Third, club culture. After a match against a traditional VFA rival, their supporters, players and officials will come to the post-match and stick around for an hour. When against an AFL reserves side, they don't bother to come in - effecting atmosphere and takings.

The only benefit of an AFL reserves side is during the finals. If they make it (and with less AFL games on TV due to their finals), the TV audience sky-rockets.


In the end, as proven in the VFA/VFL experiment, AFL reserves sides in the comp are good for them and them alone. Not the competition or the other clubs.

Great post mate, greatly appreciated!

Unfortunately you will now be told your a moron, who can't read, are you dumb etc etc by a few who can only see one view.

Don't forget the 1991 must of cut essendon deep accusations

[UK Fan]

Debating where to put this thread in the pantheon of SA Footy threads: Pseudo's Mice thread, The Running Sheet, Eric, REBs Seven Deadly sins of the Glenelg Football Club, Duromine v Professional Athlete, The 2007 GFthread (Schuburt v Gowans)?
Absolute gold
Dubious facts, even more dubious opinions, shifting alliances, multiple attacks from both sides of the argument, simmering tensions, quality!

Pseudo also gave us the vasectomy thread. I'm not sure the Eric thread is quite in the esteemed company of the other nominations, not just yet anyway. Dear Dr.REB certainly has some value.

When the judges vote, I am sure this will come under serious consideration. (Perhaps the 300+ threads on this subject should be merged?)

My nomination is the 57 page Reasons to vote No thread (to the Adelaide Oval Redevelopment), http://www.safooty.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32303, and the subsequent "Lies start to surface" thread, especially as so many of the concerns of us "no" voters have already been unfortunately proven correct.

That's true

[on the rails]

Unfortunately you will now be told your a moron, who can't read, are you dumb etc etc by a few who can only see one view.

Well do the collective thoughts and opinions of how many in the Pro-PAFC camp count?

Booney, beenreal, Macca, Kickinit. pafc1870 are about the only ones trying to defend the undefendable so far on this topic!

Pity though blind faith, no common sense and a selfish attitude controls and dictates their arguements!

[beenreal]

Unfortunately you will now be told your a moron, who can't read, are you dumb etc etc by a few who can only see one view.

Well do the collective thoughts and opinions of how many in the Pro-PAFC camp count?

Booney, beenreal, Macca, Kickinit. pafc1870 are about the only ones trying to defend the undefendable so far on this topic!

Pity though blind faith, no common sense and a selfish attitude controls and dictates their arguements!

I'll counter your blind faith, common sense and selfish attitude, and raise you a NIMBY, Ostrich and Rear Vision Mirror.

[Macca19]

Booney, beenreal, Macca, Kickinit. pafc1870 are about the only ones trying to defend the undefendable so far on this topic!

Pity though blind faith, no common sense and a selfish attitude controls and dictates their arguements!

Ive said on more than one occasion that I dont want the teams to play in the SANFL.

[BrekkyDJ]

Unfortunately you will now be told your a moron, who can't read, are you dumb etc etc by a few who can only see one view.

Well do the collective thoughts and opinions of how many in the Pro-PAFC camp count?

Booney, beenreal, Macca, Kickinit. pafc1870 are about the only ones trying to defend the undefendable so far on this topic!

Pity though blind faith, no common sense and a selfish attitude controls and dictates their arguements!

I'll counter your blind faith, common sense and selfish attitude, and raise you a NIMBY, Ostrich and Rear Vision Mirror.

Bad luck for you... I'm going all in with a "Been There, Done That".

[Ecky]

BrekkyDJ, would you be able to give us a rough estimate what Port Melbourne's average home crowds were

1) In the 1980s
2) Now vs AFL Reserves teams
3) Now vs non-AFL Reserves teams
please?

[Booney]

Unfortunately you will now be told your a moron, who can't read, are you dumb etc etc by a few who can only see one view.

Well do the collective thoughts and opinions of how many in the Pro-PAFC camp count?
Booney, beenreal, Macca, Kickinit. pafc1870 are about the only ones trying to defend the undefendable so far on this topic!
Pity though blind faith, no common sense and a selfish attitude controls and dictates their arguements!

I think you need to re-read my thoughts on this subject. At no point have I been an advocate of the SANFL having to suffer because of the PAFC and AFC's desire to have reserves sides play locally.Do I truly think that we (PAFC/AFL) would be better served by having all our players out of the AFL playing 22 in the one side play together? Maybe, maybe not. We won a premiership under this system, Adelaide 2, West Coast 3. Times change and for the PAFC AFL side to have the best chance of returning to play finals is, based on the opinion of the people now in charge, having our "reserves" all playing together, then I support that. But not at any cost.

I would love to see the Magpies league side continue to play for points and ultimately premierships, I've enjoyed so often singing "cheer cheer the black and the white" ( like the other Sunday ) and I think that the best outcome is to have the AFL reserves play in the SANFL reserves, leaving the league competition as is.(Minus any AFL listed players)

I also acknowledge that there is no outcome to suit all parties. Clearly the SANFL do not want to lose all contact with the two local AFL clubs, that is clear. How the 8 SANFL clubs see that may differ from club to club, as far as I know there has been no formal vote on this, only hearsay from "those in the know"? So lets wait for that to play out.

Blind faith? Well, I can only assume through the very dark times at Prospect you stuck by your club even though the people in charge at the time were doing a shit job, the club was on its knees and the future looked bleak. New people took over and you put your (blind) faith in them to turn things around. Good on you, thats what supporting a club is about. You have the good times and the bad and I know full well that this issue (AFL reserves) impacts upon the whole SANFL competition and the people who love it, me included.

Selfish? Well if wanting what is best for the club I support is selfish then so be it, but I have acknowledged that I am not willing for the SANFL to be carved up for that purpose. So there are people far, far more important than you and me in this debate who will weigh up the options, debate what is best for all parties and work towards an outcome.

KT's letter (as Dutchy, a businessman noted) was entering negotiations high, clearly leaving much of his "wish list" as something to negotiate or simply throw away. It's how all negotiations start. Nobody ever gets everything they want...and it seems someone or maybe more than we know (perhaps) wants the two AFL clubs fielding teams locally. Hey, it might even be SANFL clubs showing interest in any possible monetary reward. Like I said, lets see that play out.

Simply being as dismissive as thinking all Port supporters on here (or in the wider community not represented on here) are happy to see the SANFL ripped apart to enable us to field a reserves side to aid our AFL team is simply bullshit.

[Booney]

Having said that, I wait with interest to see what Adelaide proposal is.

Or do they already have those wheels in motion without declaring them publicly?

[am Bays]

Unfortunately you will now be told your a moron, who can't read, are you dumb etc etc by a few who can only see one view.

Well do the collective thoughts and opinions of how many in the Pro-PAFC camp count?
Booney, beenreal, Macca, Kickinit. pafc1870 are about the only ones trying to defend the undefendable so far on this topic!
Pity though blind faith, no common sense and a selfish attitude controls and dictates their arguements!

I think you need to re-read my thoughts on this subject. At no point have I been an advocate of the SANFL having to suffer because of the PAFC and AFC's desire to have reserves sides play locally.Do I truly think that we (PAFC/AFL) would be better served by having all our players out of the AFL playing 22 in the one side play together? Maybe, maybe not. We won a premiership under this system, Adelaide 2, West Coast 3. Times change and for the PAFC AFL side to have the best chance of returning to play finals is, based on the opinion of the people now in charge, having our "reserves" all playing together, then I support that. But not at any cost.

I would love to see the Magpies league side continue to play for points and ultimately premierships, I've enjoyed so often singing "cheer cheer the black and the white" ( like the other Sunday ) and I think that the best outcome is to have the AFL reserves play in the SANFL reserves, leaving the league competition as is.(Minus any AFL listed players)

I also acknowledge that there is no outcome to suit all parties. Clearly the SANFL do not want to lose all contact with the two local AFL clubs, that is clear. How the 8 SANFL clubs see that may differ from club to club, as far as I know there has been no formal vote on this, only hearsay from "those in the know"? So lets wait for that to play out.

Blind faith? Well, I can only assume through the very dark times at Prospect you stuck by your club even though the people in charge at the time were doing a shit job, the club was on its knees and the future looked bleak. New people took over and you put your (blind) faith in them to turn things around. Good on you, thats what supporting a club is about. You have the good times and the bad and I know full well that this issue (AFL reserves) impacts upon the whole SANFL competition and the people who love it, me included.

Selfish? Well if wanting what is best for the club I support is selfish then so be it, but I have acknowledged that I am not willing for the SANFL to be carved up for that purpose. So there are people far, far more important than you and me in this debate who will weigh up the options, debate what is best for all parties and work towards an outcome.

KT's letter (as Dutchy, a businessman noted) was entering negotiations high, clearly leaving much of his "wish list" as something to negotiate or simply throw away. It's how all negotiations start. Nobody ever gets everything they want...and it seems someone or maybe more than we know (perhaps) wants the two AFL clubs fielding teams locally. Hey, it might even be SANFL clubs showing interest in any possible monetary reward. Like I said, lets see that play out.

Simply being as dismissive as thinking all Port supporters on here (or in the wider community not represented on here) are happy to see the SANFL ripped apart to enable us to field a reserves side to aid our AFL team is simply bullshit.

Quality post Booney. Don't agree with everything but respect the points.

[whufc]

Unfortunately you will now be told your a moron, who can't read, are you dumb etc etc by a few who can only see one view.

Well do the collective thoughts and opinions of how many in the Pro-PAFC camp count?
Booney, beenreal, Macca, Kickinit. pafc1870 are about the only ones trying to defend the undefendable so far on this topic!
Pity though blind faith, no common sense and a selfish attitude controls and dictates their arguements!

I think you need to re-read my thoughts on this subject. At no point have I been an advocate of the SANFL having to suffer because of the PAFC and AFC's desire to have reserves sides play locally.Do I truly think that we (PAFC/AFL) would be better served by having all our players out of the AFL playing 22 in the one side play together? Maybe, maybe not. We won a premiership under this system, Adelaide 2, West Coast 3. Times change and for the PAFC AFL side to have the best chance of returning to play finals is, based on the opinion of the people now in charge, having our "reserves" all playing together, then I support that. But not at any cost.

I would love to see the Magpies league side continue to play for points and ultimately premierships, I've enjoyed so often singing "cheer cheer the black and the white" ( like the other Sunday ) and I think that the best outcome is to have the AFL reserves play in the SANFL reserves, leaving the league competition as is.(Minus any AFL listed players)

I also acknowledge that there is no outcome to suit all parties. Clearly the SANFL do not want to lose all contact with the two local AFL clubs, that is clear. How the 8 SANFL clubs see that may differ from club to club, as far as I know there has been no formal vote on this, only hearsay from "those in the know"? So lets wait for that to play out.

Blind faith? Well, I can only assume through the very dark times at Prospect you stuck by your club even though the people in charge at the time were doing a shit job, the club was on its knees and the future looked bleak. New people took over and you put your (blind) faith in them to turn things around. Good on you, thats what supporting a club is about. You have the good times and the bad and I know full well that this issue (AFL reserves) impacts upon the whole SANFL competition and the people who love it, me included.

Selfish? Well if wanting what is best for the club I support is selfish then so be it, but I have acknowledged that I am not willing for the SANFL to be carved up for that purpose. So there are people far, far more important than you and me in this debate who will weigh up the options, debate what is best for all parties and work towards an outcome.

KT's letter (as Dutchy, a businessman noted) was entering negotiations high, clearly leaving much of his "wish list" as something to negotiate or simply throw away. It's how all negotiations start. Nobody ever gets everything they want...and it seems someone or maybe more than we know (perhaps) wants the two AFL clubs fielding teams locally. Hey, it might even be SANFL clubs showing interest in any possible monetary reward. Like I said, lets see that play out.

Simply being as dismissive as thinking all Port supporters on here (or in the wider community not represented on here) are happy to see the SANFL ripped apart to enable us to field a reserves side to aid our AFL team is simply bullshit.

Quality post Booney. Don't agree with everything but respect the points.

X2

[bulldogproud2]

x3

[Pseudo]

Pseudo also gave us the vasectomy thread.

I didn't start that one, did I?

Just for the record, I'm still intact down below....

[sjt]

I do agree with one of the Port supporters thoughts on one of the previous pages. The crows are to blame in this also. Sanderson keeps pushing the reserves agenda, Neil Craig was of the opinion, a reserves team would be detrimental to a players development. I'm now beginning to dislike both clubs more and more (after being a crows member for a few years).