WAFL accepts Freo & WC reserves

[CENTURION]

Where would the extra players for these AFL reserves come from? I got no problem with it in principal. But in effect I think these teams will end up battling it out for bottom place year in year out. There is also the question of if they did make the finals, would they pull their players out for surgery as they currently do? Do we really want 2 teams in the comp who have basically no chance of finals participation?

Best solution for all is to put all AFL clubs in a separate reserves competition. Play them as curtain raisers and then all clubs are in the exact same position. The costs will increase, no doubt, but if they want reserves and run as a professional competition then they should do it properly.

simple, they don't play for points, they are simply there to keep the players in 1 side & to gain match fitness & experiment with positional changes.

[PhilH]

re top up players

Under my proposal with Crows & Powers players in SANFL reserves comp

POWER
- top up players are Magpies surplus league players together in the PAFC reserves side
- Not sure if this side in the SANFL reserves should be branded Power or Magpies
as long as Magpies are in league playing to win SANFL premierships I am not fussed.
- With Power & Magpies player mixing at reserves level (but not league) should help enhance the ONE CLUB branding at Alberton as both set of supporters will actually have a team that can all get behind, get to know the players in each others "division" and slowly becoming more that one club they are aiming for.
- Will mean Magpies will need a smaller senior list than other SANFL clubs meaning a lessened opporuntity for their zone junior talent to make the senior list. Hhowever these surplus players can transfer to other SANFL league clubs which in turn can be a regular income stream to keep PAFC financially independent.

[PhilH]

CROWS
- a bit trickier
- I suggest their top up players would be a mix of
- Up to 6 crows specific reserves players, maybe recently retired crows veterans who can share experience in an on field mentoring, coaching & development role.
- The rest selected from a squad of 16 junior players
- Each SANFL club (except PAFC) would nominate 2 Under 18 graduates from the previous year who have SANFL league potential but are still a year or two off playing league as they need further development at a reserves level.
- These players get the benefit of occassional involvement at an AFL club but would play normal SANFL reserves at their normal club if not called on.

[JK]

Where would the extra players for these AFL reserves come from? I got no problem with it in principal. But in effect I think these teams will end up battling it out for bottom place year in year out. There is also the question of if they did make the finals, would they pull their players out for surgery as they currently do? Do we really want 2 teams in the comp who have basically no chance of finals participation?

Best solution for all is to put all AFL clubs in a separate reserves competition. Play them as curtain raisers and then all clubs are in the exact same position. The costs will increase, no doubt, but if they want reserves and run as a professional competition then they should do it properly.

simple, they don't play for points, they are simply there to keep the players in 1 side & to gain match fitness & experiment with positional changes.

And if the Crows and/or Power make the finals, their non-AFL selected players just stop playing through the finals series?

[CENTURION]

yes.

[Barto]

What you 'keyboard warriors' all fail to realise as normal is that the 'divide and conquer' technique is being used by the AFL in WA... with the AFL clubs picking the two weakest of the heard.

East Perth are hardly "weak".

[Dutchy]

If clubs can find the dollars to do pre-seasons overseas then they can find enough $ to form their own reserves comp...

[DOC]

Good point. Just how many analysts can a game have? That must cost a fortune.

[wild dog]

CROWS
- a bit trickier
- I suggest their top up players would be a mix of
- Up to 6 crows specific reserves players, maybe recently retired crows veterans who can share experience in an on field mentoring, coaching & development role.
- The rest selected from a squad of 16 junior players
- Each SANFL club (except PAFC) would nominate 2 Under 18 graduates from the previous year who have SANFL league potential but are still a year or two off playing league as they need further development at a reserves level.
- These players get the benefit of occassional involvement at an AFL club but would play normal SANFL reserves at their normal club if not called on.

So the sa afl teams get to play their developmental guys against sanfl reserves while the vics develop in a much stronger comp. All this to get used to playing in the same jumper and team structure.

[JamesH]

The AFL does not fund either the WAFL or SANFL state league competitions ...
but it does fund junior development in both states.

Why is AFL clubs in SANFL reserves such a bad option?
- SANFL League remains untouched, indeed without any AFL changes their league team is their own.
- PAFC have just 3 teams to manage, the most cost effective for them with the Magpies still out to win a league premiership.
- No need to start a new comp.
- Best level to start for most AFL draftees

I could live with that as a solution

[JamesH]

The AFL does not fund either the WAFL or SANFL state league competitions ...
but it does fund junior development in both states.

Why is AFL clubs in SANFL reserves such a bad option?
- SANFL League remains untouched, indeed without any AFL changes their league team is their own.
- PAFC have just 3 teams to manage, the most cost effective for them with the Magpies still out to win a league premiership.
- No need to start a new comp.
- Best level to start for most AFL draftees

The AFL gives the SANFL... and other leagues..... an annual development grant. Call it juniour delepment etc but it is still 'funding' - not sure who who pay for it if the AFL didnt.

[Ronnie]

SANFL Reserves looking like the only possible option.
SANFL League a no go zone. AFL not interested in running a reserves comp, interstate comps like VFL looking remote.

[PhilH]

So the sa afl teams get to play their developmental guys against sanfl reserves while the vics develop in a much stronger comp. All this to get used to playing in the same jumper and team structure.

One of the unspoken problems with a one team approach from the AFL clubs and their surplus players is the massive gap in experience and skill among that group.

Its like having ONE high school class comprising of Year 8's fresh from primary school with a bunch of Year 12's. At what level would you teach at?

Many young draftees especially those on a rookie list are NOT up to SANFL League standard when they first start.

Put this ONE team in a SANFL LEAGUE side and kids will be up against much more strong & physical players. Put in the SANFL RESERVES and the veterans would dominate.

But if one team is about development of the kids more than the veterans than RESEVRES level it should be.

Thing about the VFL is the majority of the LEAGUE competition is AFL surplus players with only a coupld of stand alone clubs.

[JK]

Where would the extra players for these AFL reserves come from? I got no problem with it in principal. But in effect I think these teams will end up battling it out for bottom place year in year out. There is also the question of if they did make the finals, would they pull their players out for surgery as they currently do? Do we really want 2 teams in the comp who have basically no chance of finals participation?

Best solution for all is to put all AFL clubs in a separate reserves competition. Play them as curtain raisers and then all clubs are in the exact same position. The costs will increase, no doubt, but if they want reserves and run as a professional competition then they should do it properly.

simple, they don't play for points, they are simply there to keep the players in 1 side & to gain match fitness & experiment with positional changes.

And if the Crows and/or Power make the finals, their non-AFL selected players just stop playing through the finals series?

yes.

Pretty certain that would be a sizeable concern for the Power and Crows

[Hazydog]

Where would the extra players for these AFL reserves come from? I got no problem with it in principal. But in effect I think these teams will end up battling it out for bottom place year in year out. There is also the question of if they did make the finals, would they pull their players out for surgery as they currently do? Do we really want 2 teams in the comp who have basically no chance of finals participation?

Best solution for all is to put all AFL clubs in a separate reserves competition. Play them as curtain raisers and then all clubs are in the exact same position. The costs will increase, no doubt, but if they want reserves and run as a professional competition then they should do it properly.

simple, they don't play for points, they are simply there to keep the players in 1 side & to gain match fitness & experiment with positional changes.

And if the Crows and/or Power make the finals, their non-AFL selected players just stop playing through the finals series?

yes.

Pretty certain that would be a sizeable concern for the Power and Crows

A solution for that may be for the Power & Crow reserves sides to play each other in "trial" games during the SANFL finals series?

[MAY-Z]

The AFL does not fund either the WAFL or SANFL state league competitions ...
but it does fund junior development in both states.

Why is AFL clubs in SANFL reserves such a bad option?
- SANFL League remains untouched, indeed without any AFL changes their league team is their own.
- PAFC have just 3 teams to manage, the most cost effective for them with the Magpies still out to win a league premiership.
- No need to start a new comp.
- Best level to start for most AFL draftees

because if you listen to the afl clubs the sanfl reserves is not a high enough standard. if it was they wouldnt be moving players that get dropped to the reserves at their sanfl club.

[wild dog]

One of the unspoken problems with a one team approach from the AFL clubs and their surplus players is the massive gap in experience and skill among that group.

Its like having ONE high school class comprising of Year 8's fresh from primary school with a bunch of Year 12's. At what level would you teach at?

Many young draftees especially those on a rookie list are NOT up to SANFL League standard when they first start.

Put this ONE team in a SANFL LEAGUE side and kids will be up against much more strong & physical players. Put in the SANFL RESERVES and the veterans would
dominate.

But if one team is about development of the kids more than the veterans than RESEVRES level it should be.

Thing about the VFL is the majority of the LEAGUE competition
is AFL surplus players with only a coupld of stand alone clubs.

Which demonstrates how good the existing system is and the natural flexibility built into it. Guys like Gunston and Henderson spent time in the reserves, moved to leagee with the occasional sequence back in the reserves and they develop. PLaying someone like shannon hurn and the others i mentioned in the reserves until a regular afl gig is lunacy. Seems more about the afl marketing and wanting to get their own way than developing their young and fringe footballers.

[Grahaml]

re top up players

Under my proposal with Crows & Powers players in SANFL reserves comp

POWER
- top up players are Magpies surplus league players together in the PAFC reserves side
- Not sure if this side in the SANFL reserves should be branded Power or Magpies
as long as Magpies are in league playing to win SANFL premierships I am not fussed.
- With Power & Magpies player mixing at reserves level (but not league) should help enhance the ONE CLUB branding at Alberton as both set of supporters will actually have a team that can all get behind, get to know the players in each others "division" and slowly becoming more that one club they are aiming for.
- Will mean Magpies will need a smaller senior list than other SANFL clubs meaning a lessened opporuntity for their zone junior talent to make the senior list. Hhowever these surplus players can transfer to other SANFL league clubs which in turn can be a regular income stream to keep PAFC financially independent.

If the reserves are the Power's team and not the Magpies, then where does that leave the backup players for the PAM? You want the maggies playing seriously for the flag but their backups will have their seasons wrecked by playing based on the availability of the Power listed players. And how much does that compromise their ability to develop? Before long, the magpies development will be so far behind they won't compete.

The one club thing fills up some space but has little substance. What about the kid slated as a high pick if the power do well? What incentive will there be to help that kid knowing he'll be elsewhere? Teaching him their methods, philosophies, improving him on the field for another club to reap the benefits.

Many kids would get a chance at other clubs, but not if the other clubs had to pay. These kids will largely be lost to SANFL.

CROWS
- a bit trickier
- I suggest their top up players would be a mix of
- Up to 6 crows specific reserves players, maybe recently retired crows veterans who can share experience in an on field mentoring, coaching & development role.
- The rest selected from a squad of 16 junior players
- Each SANFL club (except PAFC) would nominate 2 Under 18 graduates from the previous year who have SANFL league potential but are still a year or two off playing league as they need further development at a reserves level.
- These players get the benefit of occassional involvement at an AFL club but would play normal SANFL reserves at their normal club if not called on.

6 recently retired players will not happen. 2013 you might get Doughty and, erm, ahh??? Then again, you might not even get him.

I seriously don't see how people can suggest using SANFL clubs' own juniors to play against them. Your whole argument here is that the best place for a club to develop a player is in their own reserves, yet you advocate making the SANFL clubs pick a couple of blokes to develop away from their reserves? That suggestion is far beneath your usual thoughtful standard. What will happen is SANFL clubs will nominate blokes they think will NEVER make it. There is no method that works using SANFL juniors.

[CENTURION]

Seems to me that there's no option BUT to have the reserves sides in the VFL.

[PhilH]

Graham ... your points are mostly fair, although I assure you a lot of though had gone into it.

My aim is to not to produce a perfect solution for everyone ... it does not exist.

My aim was to suggest the best alternative that allows
- the SANFL league to be untouched from having AFL reserves sides in it.
- the AFL clubs to have 100% control of your players if they really want it.
- the most cost effective, especially for PAFC

Re Power / Magpies reserves
- Yes there will be less people on the Magpies senior list, for mine that is better than there being no Magpies.
- The best of their development zone will still have a pathway to SANFL League Football.
- It's just some more on the fringe will have less and that have the backup of transfering to another SANFL club
- You talk about some kids being lost to SANFL. If the alternative is no Magpies and the SANFL reduces to 8 zones how many kids will be lost then?

Re Crows
- They will need top up players from somewhere.
- these top up requirements will change week to week, so a lot of these players will need a second home
- so how do you manage this with the least impact to league (SANFL, Amateurs) competitions?
- from this squad of 16 it may be only 2-3 are needed for a game, or it could be as high as 12, because these movements are happeneing at a reserves level, not league as currently, the disruption that MUST occur is limited in its impact.