West Coast/Freo Reserves in WAFL proposal

[redandblack]

They'd be subject to the same salary cap (or less) as the other teams.

I also think the Crows and Power wouldn't be too interested in them making finals. They'd rather send them off for operations and an early finish. They'd also be playing their players in all sorts of different positions.

They also (in the WA model) can't touch any of the top 40 players on any SANFL list.

[Pseudo]

csb, why would any one club want to give the AFL the finger?

Because we'd like to keep the U19s and U17s as one simple example. That was a perfect opportunity to say to the AFL, thanks but no thanks, we'll be right on our own and you can go shove your idea of how football should be...

...but alas we bent over and took the pineapple.

Bingo CSB: Ya hit the nail on the head with one powerful swing.

The league took one little step closer towards AFLSA because the AFL said "it suits us, and we hold the money so you will do it".

An enlightened SANFL might have raised its grotty index finger above its head and said NO. And if the AFL then chose not to throw money at the SANFL, then the AFL would get no junior development either.

The prevailing attitude appears to be that the AFL is doing the SANFL a favour by supplying these monies. If anything the SANFL is doing the AFL a favour by accepting them.

[Barto]

WAFLonline has imploded. I wonder why.

[whufc]

They'd be subject to the same salary cap (or less) as the other teams.

I also think the Crows and Power wouldn't be too interested in them making finals. They'd rather send them off for operations and an early finish. They'd also be playing their players in all sorts of different positions.

They also (in the WA model) can't touch any of the top 40 players on any SANFL list.

How could they have a salary cap their players are payed AFL wages.

[Pseudo]

Pseudo, you really need a bit more substance than just 'raising a finger and saying NO'.

NO I don't.

[csbowes]

csb, it's only your opinion about the 19's and 17's. I think the change has been great, so it's just a difference of opinion.

Your argument is that you don't trust the SANFL clubs. That's fair enough, but do something about it at your club. Berating the AFL isn't going to work

The problem with the U19s and U17s decision was that there was no solidarity amongst the clubs. It came across like those clubs who weren't making the effort with their juniors just sided with the AFL model because of the money, while those who were making the effort wanted to keep the status quo. If the U18 model was the better model, then all clubs who voted for it should be willing to do it with no AFL money coming in. So was the model better or the money better?

I'm quite vocal at my club and I've worked for them before as a volunteer in fundraising and merchandising. My perception is that Sturt are very strong about keeping the AFL at arms length and not being influenced by them, but at the same time, my perception is that the rest of the SANFL may not feel the same. Again, this lack of solidarity is what I think will end up costing the league, some clubs are more SANFL than others so to speak...

[CUTTERMAN]

Again, the AFL do not understand the market in WA & SA. they are in great danger of losing their market in SA totally if this all goes ahead. They can focus as much as they want on tv deals but bums on seats and membership is what keeps alot of clubs alive. I can't speak for you guys out there or the diehard Crows or Power supporters, let alone any WA footy punters but I get the distinct feeling that footy people outside of Vic or the Eastern seaboard are sick of being ignored and undermined.
We can feel sick in our combined guts', as I do right now or we can go out and protest and at least show Demitriou that there are people that have respect for their heritage and history and won't be forgetting it. EVER!

My suggestion off the top of my head is for some ambush marketing.

[Pseudo]

An enlightened SANFL might have raised its grotty index finger above its head and said NO.

... and an enlightened poster might have suggested the middle finger be raised instead

[csbowes]

I also think the Crows and Power wouldn't be too interested in them making finals. They'd rather send them off for operations and an early finish. They'd also be playing their players in all sorts of different positions.

Yes... I'd want all my back up players sitting around while my AFL team plays finals...

... sorry, can't agree with you here.

If the Crows are in the finals, they want their players playing SANFL finals to keep them match ready.

[PhilH]

Having read up a little bit on this from some WA sites the decision lies solely with the WAFL clubs ... needs a majority vote 5 of the 9 to adopt it.

It will be about 2 months of consultation, replies etc before the vote is taken.

Please also note the article that starts this threat is on the AFL web site ... I wonder which side of the argument it will present.

Of course you wont read it in any News Ltd paper in SA but there was already a trial of WA AFL sides having all their own surplus players in one WAFL club but it failed miserably.


Like most here I have have many concerns about something similar happening here .. the main one being.

... how much does the integrity of a league competition suffer when some of the participating clubs do not have winning that leagues premiership as their #1 priority?



The more this week passes the more I see a perfect storm of issues assaulting the SANFL (Power finances, AFL conditions, gaming changes and now reserves sides) ... I suspect the next few months are going to be tough .. I wonder what will survive.

[csbowes]

I also think the Crows and Power wouldn't be too interested in them making finals. They'd rather send them off for operations and an early finish. They'd also be playing their players in all sorts of different positions.

Yes... I'd want all my back up players sitting around while my AFL team plays finals...

... sorry, can't agree with you here.

If the Crows are in the finals, they want their players playing SANFL finals to keep them match ready.

That said... if the Crows aren't in the finals, you'd be right... that's where PhilH's comment above about the integrity of the competition being undermined as the Crows and Power choose to not compete fully for the flag.

[whufc]

I also think the Crows and Power wouldn't be too interested in them making finals. They'd rather send them off for operations and an early finish. They'd also be playing their players in all sorts of different positions.

Yes... I'd want all my back up players sitting around while my AFL team plays finals...

... sorry, can't agree with you here.

If the Crows are in the finals, they want their players playing SANFL finals to keep them match ready.

That said... if the Crows aren't in the finals, you'd be right... that's where PhilH's comment above about the integrity of the competition being undermined as the Crows and Power choose to not compete fully for the flag.

In all seriousness if the Crows AFL team made the finals and progressed through to the 2nd or 3rd week and the Crows SANFL side didnt make the finals imho you could bet your bottom dollar that they would try and get some of their fringe players to play in the SANFL reserves finals series for various sides.

Also i would love to here some players opinions, would Brad Symes who has grown up at Centrals all his life want to play for a Crows reserves side against Central. I know they wont care what the players think but i would find their honest opinion (not the club line) interesting.

[CUTTERMAN]

The AFL, Crows, Power aren't going to give one stuff about the "credibility" of the comp if they're not going in with the attitude to win finals. It's obvious once they have their reserves teams the SANFL will just be the means to an end

[whufc]

Also people keep saying the Crows and Power reserves sides would never make the SANFL finals.

Take a look at the VFL there are many occasions where AFL reserves clubs (Collingwood and Geelong) finish ahead of the VFL stand alone clubs. Also the affiliated clubs are very competitive as well. Remember the Crows and Power sides at the moment are terrible and both clubs lack depth which would equate to poor SANFL reserves teams.

BUT

the way the AFL is designed is that teams have there ups and downs in a cycle, one day the Crows and Power will be very strong again and they will have lots of depth which will mean very strong AFL reserves sides.

[topsywaldron]

Fairly sure Norwood are against AFL reserves teams in the competition.

Sell the two AFL licenses back to the AFL at market rates, redevelop Footy Park, invest the money and guarantee an annual dividend from the interest. If the two pretend clubs want complete control over their players they can **** off and have teams in the VFL.

Then, and only then, will we as SANFL fans have a vague sense of certainty about our clubs.

And when Pseudo arranges a rally I'm with him.

[whufc]

Fairly sure Norwood are against AFL reserves teams in the competition.

Sell the two AFL licenses back to the AFL at market rates, redevelop Footy Park, invest the money and guarantee an annual dividend from the interest. If the two pretend clubs want complete control over their players they can **** off and have teams in the VFL.

Then, and only then, will we as SANFL fans have a vague sense of certainty about our clubs.

And when Pseudo arranges a rally I'm with him.

WOW 100% totally agree, great post!

Definatly up for a rally!

[MatteeG]

Sell the two AFL licenses back to the AFL at market rates, redevelop Footy Park, invest the money and guarantee an annual dividend from the interest. If the two pretend clubs want complete control over their players they can **** off and have teams in the VFL.
And when Pseudo arranges a rally I'm with him.

*APPLAUSE*

[Jim05]

Ive been saying for years we should have sold off the licenses and charged rent for AAMI. No head F$$$s for the SANFL and they just sit back and collect the rent each week. The money made from the sale of the licenses could be put into a bank fund and just reap the interest.

[LPH]

Bring on the Rally!!!

Was all of this not foreseen 25 years ago?
The VFL has only ever cared about themselves & now (for whatever reason & my position, I admit, has been overstated at times) this state's footy community is reaping what was sowed.

People thought that having teams from here would keep our players here.
We thought we'd get SoO every week.

We get nothing from the VFL, never have, never will.

Are we doomed to have an SAFL?
With teams with the long history of Casey Scorpions, Bendigo Bombers, Northern Bullants (yes, I know they once were Parahan). Great, can't wait for that!

[sjt]

To view a reserves team as a panacea to the current performances of the Crows and Port is rubbish. As Rucci squeezed into one of the many articles he's written on the subject, continually pushing his agenda;
"Those who have argued against AFL-run reserves teams in the SANFL have pointed to the Crows and Power winning three premierships without them", you can add West Coast, which is four out of the last fourteen premierships. How many times has Port finished top three in the last ten years, without reserves?
Seven of the bottom nine have reserves. Brisbane have two wins, with a reserves team. Richmond, Melbourne, Western Bulldogs, St Kilda and North Melbourne all out the eight. It's really working well for them (plus the financial cost). Freo and West Coast are in the eight. Wasn't long ago Victorian teams wanted to investigate why the interstate teams were proving successful. Collingwood, is suposed to be the "model" to follow, they've won one premiership in 19 years (and that was after a draw)!!There's no evidence that any benefit will be had by having a reserves team. It could be argued equally that a reserves side is detrimental to performance and player development.
The minor benefit that may or may not be gained from having a reserves team, can not be used as a reason to potentially impact on the integrity of our whole competition.
LEAVE THE SANFL ALONE! DONT STUFF UP THE SANFL, FOR SOMETHING THAT PROBABLY WON'T EVEN BENEFIT THE AFL TEAMS!!