Standard of SANFL this year?

[FlyingHigh]

Which of the current League sides would get within 10 goals of their equivalent from the mid to late 80's? I doubt Glenelg or North would get within 15 goals.

Players fitness levels in the 80's automatically rules them out from beating any of the current SANFL teams. Have spoken to the Thomas and Cochrane familes about this and the fitness level and times that the juniors can run compared to their snr counterparts is amazing, both sprints and distance. Quickest players at Central in the 70's/80's ran the 100 meters in roughly mid 13-14 seconds, there are blokes in the SANFL now that can run 100 meters in a tick over 11 sec

Strategies and structures are that well inplaced in current SANFL footballers that players from the 80's just constantly kicking long to packs in the forward line would be easy to defend.

Skill levels are at a totally different level these days with players being able to kick goals from any angle in the air or dribbled along the ground. These days the majority of SANFL footballers can kick with accuracy over 40 meters left or right foot.

Also add the better one-on-one defensive skills these days, plus some of the marks paid back then were very dodgy compared to what is required today. As much as I enjoy watching it for the memories of what the SANFL meant to people, see the '86 GF for examples.

[whufc]

Skill levels are at a totally different level these days with players being able to kick goals from any angle in the air or dribbled along the ground. These days the majority of SANFL footballers can kick with accuracy over 40 meters left or right foot.

Ah yes but we could kick screwies - can they?
We had to play in the mud - do they?
We didn't need our mummies and daddies there to do everytihng for us - do they?

1/ Know but they comfortably kick drop punts 55+ meters with more accuracy than a screwie plus the drop punt is much easier for the forwards to mark.

2/ I have seen many a wet muddy at Elizabeth not as often as what it use to have been, todays players foot skills would come to the fore in wet conditions.

[FlyingHigh]

Skill levels are at a totally different level these days with players being able to kick goals from any angle in the air or dribbled along the ground. These days the majority of SANFL footballers can kick with accuracy over 40 meters left or right foot.

Ah yes but we could kick screwies - can they?
We had to play in the mud - do they?
We didn't need our mummies and daddies there to do everytihng for us - do they?[/quote]

How about all those 19-20 year olds coming from interstate?

[MagareyLegend]

If Peter Vivian was running at 13-14 seconds pace I must have been on drugs.
Blokes like him were as quick (and as good) as anything today - go back and remind them of that.
Please

This exact comparison was brought up at my work and i cant remeber the exact figures but if Jamie Thomas memory was correct Paul Thomas runs the 100 at least half a second quicker than Vivian ever did in their trials they had at training back in the day. Paul Thomas is quick but is by no means a speedstar in the current SANFL environment.

In the mud?

[whufc]

Another good comparison i heard is like most olympic world record times for track, field and swimming from the 80's would barely get any of those competitors into the current day qualifiers let alone finals.

The oldies will hate to admit it but as humans have developed so has the ability for us to run faster for much longer periods, thanks to science, technique and training strategies.

A side from the 80's would have very good skills but unfortunatly for them they would not be able to use them as they would be second to the ball almost every single time.

The Paul Thomas/ Vivian comparison was made about pre season in summer training at Elizabeth Oval.

Remember the SANFL was still only the second best comp in Aus in the 80's like it is the second best comp today, though the gap is not as close as back then.

[FlyingHigh]

Another good comparison i heard is like most olympic world record times for track, field and swimming from the 80's would barely get any of those competitors into the current day qualifiers let alone finals.

The oldies will hate to admit it but as humans have developed so has the ability for us to run faster for much longer periods, thanks to science, technique and training strategies.

A side from the 80's would have very good skills but unfortunatly for them they would not be able to use them as they would be second to the ball almost every single time.

The Paul Thomas/ Vivian comparison was made about pre season in summer training at Elizabeth Oval.

The prestige of the "old" SANFL, plus the bigger crowds made it all seem more important and "life-and-death" to the players and more of the supporters and I reckon this made it seem as though players (not necessarily the out-and-out champions) achieved over and above themselves.

[MagareyLegend]

Vivian's real super strength was his accelaration over the first 5 metres and his balance and smoothness - try and tell me any Centrals player (including Thomas) now or since would beat that and I would tell you that you never saw (or at the risk of bragging) ever had the misfortune of standing milky.

[MagareyLegend]

Another good comparison i heard is like most olympic world record times for track, field and swimming from the 80's would barely get any of those competitors into the current day qualifiers let alone finals.

The oldies will hate to admit it but as humans have developed so has the ability for us to run faster for much longer periods, thanks to science, technique and training strategies.

A side from the 80's would have very good skills but unfortunatly for them they would not be able to use them as they would be second to the ball almost every single time.

The Paul Thomas/ Vivian comparison was made about pre season in summer training at Elizabeth Oval.

The prestige of the "old" SANFL, plus the bigger crowds made it all seem more important and "life-and-death" to the players and more of the supporters and I reckon this made it seem as though players (not necessarily the out-and-out champions) achieved over and above themselves.

Wrong again mate - we got smashed almost every time we went for the ball. Can you imagine what it was like being on the same oval against Granger, Muir, Colasante, Duckworth, Ray Hayes etc?
These days they are so protected and scared.

[whufc]

Another good comparison i heard is like most olympic world record times for track, field and swimming from the 80's would barely get any of those competitors into the current day qualifiers let alone finals.

The oldies will hate to admit it but as humans have developed so has the ability for us to run faster for much longer periods, thanks to science, technique and training strategies.

A side from the 80's would have very good skills but unfortunatly for them they would not be able to use them as they would be second to the ball almost every single time.

The Paul Thomas/ Vivian comparison was made about pre season in summer training at Elizabeth Oval.

The prestige of the "old" SANFL, plus the bigger crowds made it all seem more important and "life-and-death" to the players and more of the supporters and I reckon this made it seem as though players (not necessarily the out-and-out champions) achieved over and above themselves.

Wrong again mate - we got smashed almost every time we went for the ball. Can you imagine what it was like being on the same oval against Granger, Muir, Colasante, Duckworth, Ray Hayes etc?
These days they are so protected and scared.

Totally agree, alot of that is because of the technology that surrounds each game today.

There is no way you could compare the toughness of the blokes in 60-s - 80's compared to modern players. Back then every pack you entered you could been have punched out cold, these days you almostwalk onto a football with 100% certainty that you will not be punched in the head, or get into a proper punch up.

[FlyingHigh]

Another good comparison i heard is like most olympic world record times for track, field and swimming from the 80's would barely get any of those competitors into the current day qualifiers let alone finals.

The oldies will hate to admit it but as humans have developed so has the ability for us to run faster for much longer periods, thanks to science, technique and training strategies.

A side from the 80's would have very good skills but unfortunatly for them they would not be able to use them as they would be second to the ball almost every single time.

The Paul Thomas/ Vivian comparison was made about pre season in summer training at Elizabeth Oval.

The prestige of the "old" SANFL, plus the bigger crowds made it all seem more important and "life-and-death" to the players and more of the supporters and I reckon this made it seem as though players (not necessarily the out-and-out champions) achieved over and above themselves.

Wrong again mate - we got smashed almost every time we went for the ball. Can you imagine what it was like being on the same oval against Granger, Muir, Colasante, Duckworth, Ray Hayes etc?
These days they are so protected and scared.

Wouldn't disagree with that, but that wasn't the thrust of my post. It was more regarding the culture and standing of the SANFL, and is the feeling I get when I watch old footage compared to todays games.

[MagareyLegend]

Yes but I thought you were not building these weightings into your assessment which distorted your view.
It is like comparing circle work to game day. Easy to execute skills when nobody is allowed to "touch you".
Trust me it was scary back then (I am no hero) but it isn't now.

[whufc]

Yes but I thought you were not building these weightings into your assessment which distorted your view.
It is like comparing circle work to game day. Easy to execute skills when nobody is allowed to "touch you".
Trust me it was scary back then (I am no hero) but it isn't now.

I have no doubt it was scary then but the king hits, the fights, the punches are not and should not have ever been apart of the GAME.

[MagareyLegend]

Yes but I thought you were not building these weightings into your assessment which distorted your view.
It is like comparing circle work to game day. Easy to execute skills when nobody is allowed to "touch you".
Trust me it was scary back then (I am no hero) but it isn't now.

I have no doubt it was scary then but the king hits, the fights, the punches are not and should not have ever been apart of the GAME.

Agreed, but it is easier to get it then execute skills without having to worry about that aspect.

[FlyingHigh]

Yes but I thought you were not building these weightings into your assessment which distorted your view.
It is like comparing circle work to game day. Easy to execute skills when nobody is allowed to "touch you".
Trust me it was scary back then (I am no hero) but it isn't now.

Yep, probably didn't take that into account. Alternatively, how often did you see ruckmen tackle back then, compared to the number of heavy tackles someone like Paul Lindsay used to apply?

[MagareyLegend]

You never saw Rick Davies, Mick Redden or Peter Carey play?

Peter Darley would have had Paul Lindsay for breakfast not to mention what Neil Kerley would have done to him!

Look, put it this way. If you were able to take a sample of 1,000 people and take them to the 1973 SANFL GF then the 2009 SANFL GF then say to them which one do they want to go back and see again I think the majority would say the 1973 GF. Don't you?

[johntheclaret]

Which of the current League sides would get within 10 goals of their equivalent from the mid to late 80's? I doubt Glenelg or North would get within 15 goals.

Players fitness levels in the 80's automatically rules them out from beating any of the current SANFL teams. Have spoken to the Thomas and Cochrane familes about this and the fitness level and times that the juniors can run compared to their snr counterparts is amazing, both sprints and distance. Quickest players at Central in the 70's/80's ran the 100 meters in roughly mid 13-14 seconds, there are blokes in the SANFL now that can run 100 meters in a tick over 11 sec

Strategies and structures are that well inplaced in current SANFL footballers that players from the 80's just constantly kicking long to packs in the forward line would be easy to defend.

Skill levels are at a totally different level these days with players being able to kick goals from any angle in the air or dribbled along the ground. These days the majority of SANFL footballers can kick with accuracy over 40 meters left or right foot.

NA 6.14.50 Stewart couldn't kick a goal for love nor money on Sunday
I'd say after all the DVD's I watched last year the standard has dropped compared to the 70's. No doubt the resposibility lies with the AFL who demand what positions players should play in and influence the style of game SANFL clubs no adopt

[on the rails]

One of the reasons the standard has dropped in the modern game is that clubs are looking for athletes and focus on running, sprints, weights etc but neglect to work on simple skills like goal kicking. I know it probably isn't as bad as it seems over a season but North's goalkicking for a number of years has been poor from set shots. Doesn't help that our 3 current tall fwds in Stewart, Gill and Alleway are all very "unreliable" with set shots.

[doggies4eva]

Watched the 70 GF on ABC on the weekend. I'd say that this years grand finalists would play at a higher standard than that and the 70s is generally regarded as the heyday for SANFL.

Do not agree with that comment. IMO the standard is relative to the highest standard of footy played. In 1972 North beat Carlton in the Champions of Australia match. 2009 Central would not get with 30 goals of the 2009 Geelong side. Central have SANFL stars but no players that have excelled at AFL level. North had Barrie Robran - who at Central could possibly match up on him (no one) and the Carlton side that North beat included Jesaulenko,Walls and Nicholls just to name a few. Almost all of the best SA footballers played in the SANFL in the 70's but now the best 60 or so are all playing AFL.
The current SANFL standard is no where near what it has been in the past but we go because we love our clubs.

While I don't disagree with most of the things you say above, it does not refute my statement. The advent of the AFL has taken the game to a whole new level in fitness and professionalism (which has filtered down to the SANFL). We may not like some of the tactics or rule changes by the current Geelong side would be far superior to any VFL side of the past.

[doggies4eva]

One of the reasons the standard has dropped in the modern game is that clubs are looking for athletes and focus on running, sprints, weights etc but neglect to work on simple skills like goal kicking. I know it probably isn't as bad as it seems over a season but North's goalkicking for a number of years has been poor from set shots. Doesn't help that our 3 current tall fwds in Stewart, Gill and Alleway are all very "unreliable" with set shots.

I think you are right - the tendency has been to develop players athletically so that they get to the contest faster probably at the expense of skills. I don't know about the idea of "toughness" though. While there may be less king hits and behind the play incidents the body contact when it does happen is ususally at a faster pace against a more developed body that it used to be. One only has to watch the AFL highlights this week to see quite a number of really hard bumps etc.

[sjt]

Another good comparison i heard is like most olympic world record times for track, field and swimming from the 80's would barely get any of those competitors into the current day qualifiers let alone finals.

The oldies will hate to admit it but as humans have developed so has the ability for us to run faster for much longer periods, thanks to science, technique and training strategies.

A side from the 80's would have very good skills but unfortunatly for them they would not be able to use them as they would be second to the ball almost every single time.

The Paul Thomas/ Vivian comparison was made about pre season in summer training at Elizabeth Oval.

The prestige of the "old" SANFL, plus the bigger crowds made it all seem more important and "life-and-death" to the players and more of the supporters and I reckon this made it seem as though players (not necessarily the out-and-out champions) achieved over and above themselves.

Wrong again mate - we got smashed almost every time we went for the ball. Can you imagine what it was like being on the same oval against Granger, Muir, Colasante, Duckworth, Ray Hayes etc?
These days they are so protected and scared.

Agreed, most often nowadays a player doesn't have to be worried about been hit behind or in play, by a thuggish action. Reputations of toughness were often built on cowardly acts, such as knocking someone out when the victims focus was the ball.
These days they are perhaps more protected, by common sense and the law. Nowadays teams don't have players picked with a large weighting given to their enforcer reputations as there is no-one I can think of with this reputation.
To say they're scared, I'd say is utter rubbish. I saw Steineberner playing with his shoulder popped out running to the contest and clearing the ball at Woodville. I mentioned in the Port Central review, the amount of Kicking in danger frees due players risking limb diving on the ball. Scared, I don't think so. Tough, courageous quite often.