Port Magpies to be dissolved. Is it true?

[Barto]

The Magpies and that latent fan base is what made Port Adelaide the power club it was in the SANFL and I see no reason to hide that, discourage that or whatever just so that the club can pull in some disgruntled Norwood or Glenelg fans. By doing so, I think it confuses the identity of the club, Port should push Port, push the Magpies and get those prison bars on the field.

Even though Port by comparison had a massive support base over the other SANFL clubs, their supporter numbers dont stack up in a national competition. Having 19k to an AFL game in a football city is a real worry.

So what's everyone's theory on why Port were getting more people through the gate in their first few seasons in the AFL?

[Barto]

Would hate to see this happen (and I dont like Port)

I have more than a dozen friends who are port Magpies supporters and dont follow the Power - If the maggies are wound up then where do these football supporters go - The West Torrens and Woodville experience taught us that many of their supporters gave the game away - Footy and the SANFL cant afford to lose any teams.

I know a few people who prefer to get along to Alberton than Football Park. One bloke I know is not only a red hot Port man but loves his SANFL footy as well.

For people like this the club is more than just calling one PAFC or PAMFC: its the guernsey, the colours, the song, getting along to Alberton to watch the ressies. It's not the corporatised version.

Not only that, there's a lot of people who get involved in the grass roots administration and support structure of the game. Where do these people go if you just fold the club up? I doubt they'd rather be buying an AFL club membership and sitting in the outer at AAMI Stadium.

[Psyber]

I doubt we'd be talking about the Crows in the same we're talking about Port now, but I do suspect in a sliding doors world had Port made it in in 1991 and the Crows 5 years later, both clubs would have closer to a 50/50 market place.

I doubt it. Maybe with time...
I suspect most non Port Adelaide supporters would have ignored them as an AFL option and barracked for "whoever plays Port", as the old joke went when they did get a licence.

[JK]

Would hate to see this happen (and I dont like Port)

I have more than a dozen friends who are port Magpies supporters and dont follow the Power - If the maggies are wound up then where do these football supporters go - The West Torrens and Woodville experience taught us that many of their supporters gave the game away - Footy and the SANFL cant afford to lose any teams.

Same here mate, I'd gladly do what I could to help the Maggie's stay around if they are/were really that close to extinction, footy just wouldn't be the same for me without them.

[Big Phil]

Interesting to read Rucci's Roast on this matter in today's 'Tiser...

[Ronnie]

According to an SANFL survey taken last year Port is still easily the team most people identify with in the SANFL, Sturt i think came a very distant second. Surely these people can be enticed back to the fold. Or is it a case that most of these people are Power supporters in reality and have given up actively supporting the Magpie brand?
The more things pan out the more it is clear that the Magpies cannot exist with their current set up. Their deal for example with the Port social club is a poor one i hear. The leased hotel is highly geared. Not sure what the way out is.

[Hondo]

Even though Port by comparison had a massive support base over the other SANFL clubs, their supporter numbers dont stack up in a national competition. Having 19k to an AFL game in a football city is a real worry.

So what's everyone's theory on why Port were getting more people through the gate in their first few seasons in the AFL?

New teams usually have a spike in the early years and then a dip once the initial excitement has passed. Since 2004 their on-field performances have been inconsistent and then there's the bigger picture issue of declining crowds at AAMI for both the Crows and Power. Chocco calling seasons "over" half way through doesn't help neither does losing 10 of 12 home games like they did in 2008. I went to the round 22 game v Brisbane in 2002 or 2003 when there was 40,000 people there.

The other thing I have noticed is some straight out bad luck with the weather. It seems like every Port Power game is in a downpour.

Compared to some of the crowds to games in Melbourne this year, 19000 is about average I think 14000 went to the G for a Melbourne match earlier this year and NM have similar crowd issues (not as bad). This ties back into the bigger picture issue about crowd numbers across the AFL which is likely linked to live broadcasts against the gate / ticket prices / who knows?

There are enough Port people in Adelaide + enough curious AFL fans to get 30000 average to their games and just getting it that high would make a huge difference to them. Picking out a rainy Sat night v Fremantle as your base line for all their games is a stretch.

[Barto]

I doubt we'd be talking about the Crows in the same we're talking about Port now, but I do suspect in a sliding doors world had Port made it in in 1991 and the Crows 5 years later, both clubs would have closer to a 50/50 market place.

I doubt it. Maybe with time...
I suspect most non Port Adelaide supporters would have ignored them as an AFL option and barracked for "whoever plays Port", as the old joke went when they did get a licence.

But that's the point, as the only AFL team in town, they could have captured more young people and they'd be getting close to 20 years in the AFL by now. The Crows scoring a run in 1997 would still see enough older supporters who still had that hate for them to have things a lot more balanced than they are now. I'd be interested to see a proper survey on the level of support for both clubs in Adelaide, my guess is 30/70.

[Barto]

Interesting to read Rucci's Roast on this matter in today's 'Tiser...

Does he put these articles online?

[Big Phil]

Interesting to read Rucci's Roast on this matter in today's 'Tiser...

Does he put these articles online?

I'd suggest to check AdelaideNow (which I can't due to restrictions on work laptop) to see if it is on there, otherwise, I can type it out on here for you later this arvo Barto...

[Sojourner]

The more things pan out the more it is clear that the Magpies cannot exist with their current set up. Their deal for example with the Port social club is a poor one i hear. The leased hotel is highly geared. Not sure what the way out is.

That Ronnie is the whole crux of this matter!

Of course people, be they current Mapies supporters or even opposition SANFL supporters dont want to see that happen. Yet opposing it without having an alternative plan of how the PAM can be financed does nothing at all to help the situation. The PAM clearly need to find additional streams of revenue, yet with the current financial problems of the club loaded into the current situation of projected revenues over the next few years is a worse situation and people need to realise the full implications of it.

Maybe the reason some of this smoke is around is because the club themsleves are having discussions of the future of the club - as all SANFL clubs do on a regular basis. Without assetts, banks and financiers allow not much in the way of overdrafts for expenses for good reason. If the club really is heading towards major financial problems, its much better to deal with it before rather than after the banks padlock the doors and you are left with nothing at all.

On another note, I did mention the original name of the West Torrens FC - The Port Natives, maybe there is a suggestion for a name of a the club if WWT and Port Adelaide got togther?

[Barto]

Interesting to read Rucci's Roast on this matter in today's 'Tiser...

Does he put these articles online?

I'd suggest to check AdelaideNow (which I can't due to restrictions on work laptop) to see if it is on there, otherwise, I can type it out on here for you later this arvo Barto...

All good, found a link to it:

http://www.thepowerfromport.com.au/arti ... =2&yr=2009


For those Port supporters who are Power only and want the Magpies killed off, I wonder if they were in amongst the sold out crowd for the 1998 SANFL Grand Final. Would they be so keen to disband the Magpies if that club was staring at 10 grand finals in a row instead of it being Centrals?

[am Bays]

What it shows is that with the decline in Port Power crowds and magpies support is that Power and magpies supporters are frontrunners and as fickle as the next bunch of supporters

[Ronnie]

What it shows is that with the decline in Port Power crowds and magpies support is that Power and magpies supporters are frontrunners and as fickle as the next bunch of supporters

It does, and really the Magpie supporter army from the 1950s onwards were spoilt with great team success, their only down times where when they lost a few Grand Finals in a row. They were never really tested, and there was nothing particularly loyal or stoic about them, above other team supporters. A passionate/loyal Port person was no more that way than their West or Glenelg equivalent.
But the whole notion of which team has the most loyal supporter base is hard to tell really, you would say South Adelaide has the most loyal supporter base but i reckon the number of true Southies who have been stoic for years on end is painfully small.

[Macca19]

From the Port Power point of view, legally they are the continuation of the Port Adelaide Magpies Football Club, Some do see the current PAM as a branch from the same trunk yet its not the way it was set up as much as how people might like to think it was. Yes, the PAM are a drain financially on the Power club, Port Power are all about the best financial decision for the club in a commercial sense and without the PAM they would get more takings through the club easing their financial problems and they may well think that more people would divert their attention towards the Power if the Magpies folded which may or may not be true.

Personally, with my experience at Magpies games at Alberton, there is a definite negativity towards the Power by some Magpies supporters. Whether its because they didnt want Port to go in the AFL, the different guernseys...whatever it is, but it certainly exists. It is my opinion that these Magpies supporters will never support the Power. Ive seen Port supporters nearly come to blows over it a couple of times at SANFL games. Whilst yes 'getting rid of' the Magpies wouldnt weaken the Port brand, I think if the PAFC think it will give them instantly another couple thousand members then they are barking up the wrong tree.

[JK]

But the whole notion of which team has the most loyal supporter base is hard to tell really, you would say South Adelaide has the most loyal supporter base but i reckon the number of true Southies who have been stoic for years on end is painfully small.

Very true mate, one can probably only form an opinion from what they've witnessed over the years.

Without wanting to blow too much wind up their clackers, I'd put the Dogs fans in contention as they were very well supported throughout the 80's and 90's despite never having experienced the ultimate success .. A 35+ year wait is fair testament to their durability.

[MatteeG]

Without wanting to blow too much wind up their clackers, I'd put the Dogs fans in contention as they were very well supported throughout the 80's and 90's despite never having experienced the ultimate success .. A 35+ year wait is fair testament to their durability.

cant argue with that CP- agreed

[Macca19]

Taking the emotion out of it, I think it's what should have happened from day one in hindsight. It would have given the PAFC a better platform in the AFL and the SANFL could have made a clean break and moved on. I assume this is what the plan was back in 1990. I assume Bruce Weber had no intention of trying to keep a team in both the AFL and the SANFL.

Not sure. I think the original idea was just to move to the AFL. Once the 2nd licence was won, they wanted the SANFL Port to be the reserves side which was quickly negated by the SANFL.

[Macca19]

Even though Port by comparison had a massive support base over the other SANFL clubs, their supporter numbers dont stack up in a national competition. Having 19k to an AFL game in a football city is a real worry.

Is a worry, but not disastrous. Its no worse than getting 30k to a NM v StK game at Docklands when both clubs have around 30k members and both sets of supporters can go (as opposed to the 65 Freo supporters who made the trek to Footy Park on Saturday).

Overall, Port is up 2500 on average from last year, whilst the Crows are down almost 2000 on average from last year. The Crows have gone from 44k average in 2003, to 38k so far this year. They have gone down in average attendance for 4 years now.

So what's everyone's theory on why Port were getting more people through the gate in their first few seasons in the AFL?

Probably a lot of old timers who got tickets for the first year or two to see them in the league and then dropped off due to price of tickets. Desensitation of the Port brand. Port supporters feeling that it isnt Port any more. Disillusion with the gameplan/coach.

Whilst others dont agree with this but ive stated these before and it does impact - with the Crows as well. In 1997 there was no Foxtel, no live against the gate, no maximum 20 minute delay on FTA (sometimes live on FTA as well), no huge affordable Plasma/LCD and to a lesser extent, no covered Docklands. The only improvements to AAMI in that time have been bucket seats, video screen and a new stand. Every other stadium had video screens in the 80s at the latest, bucket seats as well. Docklands was completely built and the MCG was basically ripped down and rebuilt.
Instead games were shown often 2-3 hour delay on FTA and if you wanted to watch it on a big tv you'd have to go to a pub. These do have an effect and not just for Port. I think this also has an effect for both clubs in SA, not just Port. This explains why the Crows attendances have been on a steady decline as well.

[FlyingHigh]

Taking the emotion out of it, I think it's what should have happened from day one in hindsight. It would have given the PAFC a better platform in the AFL and the SANFL could have made a clean break and moved on. I assume this is what the plan was back in 1990. I assume Bruce Weber had no intention of trying to keep a team in both the AFL and the SANFL.

Not sure. I think the original idea was just to move to the AFL. Once the 2nd licence was won, they wanted the SANFL Port to be the reserves side which was quickly negated by the SANFL.

Reckon you're right Macca. Pretty sure a stipulation of the second licence was the "entity" (whoever that may have been, but realisically was always a 90% bet of being Port) to have as part of their plan their proposed involvement in the SANFL