AFL Reserves Discussion...

[Pseudo]

This was the analogy used by Slaven to the question posed regarding 9 teams fighting to win the premiership compared to 8 teams fighting to win the premiership and 2 teams with other agendas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Moved_My_Cheese%3F

Oh FFS...

I reckon I'm going to write a sequel to that book, entitled "I tracked down the bastard who stole my cheese and tortured him slowly to death"

[Pseudo]

BTW, Glenelg are voting Yes too - are they 'weak & shameless'?

If Glenelg votes yes, then Glenelg is also weak and shameless.

Same goes for any other of the eight.

[Pseudo]

Port's model>>>Crows' model. Moot point now.

Both models involve reserves teams in the SANFL. Therefore they equally suck eggs.

[areaman]

This was the analogy used by Slaven to the question posed regarding 9 teams fighting to win the premiership compared to 8 teams fighting to win the premiership and 2 teams with other agendas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Moved_My_Cheese%3F

Oh FFS...

I reckon I'm going to write a sequel to that book, entitled "I tracked down the bastard who stole my cheese and tortured him slowly to death"

Blessed are the Cheesemakers.

[UK Fan]

Already called three years ago unfortunately port adelaide fans. Port Magpies death can squarely be blamed on the gullible and short sighted port Adelaide members who approved the one club merger/port magpies death warrant .

Not the Sanfls fault!!

Another Long Bow Robin Hood?

Without the One Club merger there would be no Magpies.

Drew the bow 3 years ago that's how long it is Schultzy!!

We tried to tell ya but you wouldn't listen. I'm really surprised your trying to pass the buck onto the SANFL clubs though.

Old habits die hard they say.

[Apachebulldog]

It was all part of the plan by the PAFC to make them all one club.

Then when it suits them slash the Magpies throat and pluck them Shame Shame Shame on you all.

After the deed is done blame the SANFL and da clubs !!!!!!

[Aerie]

I am willing to give this a go with what Slaven put forward tonight. Under the proposed plan by the Football Commission I wouldn't have.

So whats the difference in what Slaven said last night and what the commission put forward? What changes have been made? Or is it just that Slaven is the better salesman of the same proposal?


And what happened to Norwoods adamant no and the bravado that went with that?

Slaven is definitely a better salesman than Trigg and co. I still think the current proposal that has been put forward is a joke.

I have always been of the opinion SA Football needs to work together. It can't just be a "$#^% off" AFL.

What made me go from adamant NO to acknowledging it could be a possibility, even a reasonable idea:

- Acknowledging kids want to play AFL football and it is the club's responsibility to give them the best opportunity to do this.

- Acknowledging SANFL clubs have multiple goals including providing the best pathway possible to produce AFL talent, and winning premierships.

- Thinking the Eagles and all other SANFL clubs will be their own clubs, with no on-field reliance on AFL clubs, but with the strength of an off-field relationship with South Australian football's biggest cash-cow. Thinking nothing changes when we play another SANFL club. Every club still remains.

- Having the Crows be the Crows and wearing their own uniform instead of being a wolf in sheep's clothing. This adds credibility. I got the impression Slaven wanted to beat the Crows for who they are, not restricting them so much as to having them in the competition purely to take their small amount of guaranteed money they'll offer, without having them competitive.

- Acknowledging the 42 players on the field will still be going hammer and tong. These AFL players are playing for their careers. Thinking at this stage at least, I wouldn't know who was going to win.

- The top-up list idea having two players from each club who can develop on an AFL list for a year. These players would be chosen by the SANFL clubs. They probably wouldn't be quite ready for league football, but would add reasonable depth to an AFL list. They then come back to the SANFL club with that experience. They would not be there for 6 weeks like the original proposal. Slaven said they wouldn't play against their SANFL club and you could have them back if they were to play league, but I think that squad of 16 should just be the Crows players for the year, or SANFL reserves if not picked. It gives the Crows Reserves coach something consistent to work with at least.

- The only choices given were Crows in SAAFL or Crows in SANFL League. There are no other options. So that dismisses the AFL Reserves or VFL option I thought should happen. A long term commitment from the Crows gives some confidence to the proposal. Acknowledging it is a ridiculous situation for South Australian football to have the Crows playing SAAFL.

- It wasn't the $40,000 each club would get that mattered, it was the profile given to the league through 7Mate and the Crows marketing power. If there are 3 new people that get on board to watch the Crows Reserves and it gets one of their mates back supporting an SANFL side and taking interest in the competition that is a good result.

- Having a mindset that we are doing the right thing by football in this state and therefore taking the moral high ground.

What I don't like is the reduction in salary cap. I think that automatically makes it look like the SANFL clubs are going to a lesser level. Increasing it slightly would give the impression the SANFL is serious about being the 2nd best competition in the land and not bending over to be purely a development league.

As I said earlier, I also believe that top up list should be made at the start of the season and left like that for the year, with the Crows having first use of who they want within that list. I also think if someone from their senior list is not performing to standard, they should be able to be dropped to Reserves level at another SANFL club. Or in the case of having 4 ruckman, for team balance, allow 1 or 2 of those ruckman to play Reserves level with another SANFL club. Have the Crows pick the best side they can from the 63 players on their list (less the top 22 who play AFL).

I am also not convinced Port should have the same model as the Crows. I brought up at the meeting the disadvantage the Eagles might have, given our geographic location, of taking a large chunk of Port's zone and having to give up a smaller piece of our zone so it evens out for all clubs. How would we penetrate the traditional Port heart land? We almost lost Henley Beach (our heartland according to Slaven) this year. If we lost Henley Beach, but gained Semaphore and Port Adelaide, how would we garner support? Yes, players would filter through but good luck getting those people supporting the Eagles instead of Port Adelaide any time soon. Central and North could have the same problem, although getting Salisbury to Central would probably be a good thing.

If Port are really wanting to maintain the club close to what it is, I would keep everything in place, but have the SANFL League team have to choose a squad of 16 Under 21 players from their own club as the top up list to the Power Reserves players. Once they get over 21 they either play Port reserves or try their luck at another club. I can see the problem of kids potentially wanting to be in the Port junior system so they have a better chance at being involved in an AFL club. Would need to weigh up the pros and cons. How important is it to Port Adelaide that they have links through to their own community and how much value is Port Adelaide really to other SANFL clubs?

[saintal]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl ... 6694525581

Rucci on the WWT meeting. At least he mentions that members will walk away..

[D14]

I was talking to a lad today who plays SANFL U18 and he told me that his club has had meetings with the U18 trying to keep them all at the club next year and not lose them to country clubs ect. Like they usually would.

Having spots open up on their lists and be able to keep more of the U18 talent in the SANFL would have to be a positive out of the afl in the SANFL. This lad has already been offered 400 a game in the country but he said he would rather stay for a better chance to get drafted if he was to be able to play against afl reserves.

Now you could say that spots would open up anyway if the afl left for the saafl but what then would stop U18's who don't get drafted from flocking to the crows to be top up players and try to enhance their chances of getting onto a afl list?

[daysofourlives]

[quote="D14"]I was talking to a lad today who plays SANFL U18 and he told me that his club has had meetings with the U18 trying to keep them all at the club next year and not lose them to country clubs ect. Like they usually would.

Having spots open up on their lists and be able to keep more of the U18 talent in the SANFL would have to be a positive out of the afl in the SANFL. This lad has already been offered 400 a game in the country but he said he would rather stay for a better chance to get drafted if he was to be able to play against afl reserves.

Now you could say that spots would open up anyway if the afl left for the saafl but what then would stop U18's who don't get drafted from flocking to the crows to be top up players and try to enhance their chances of getting onto a afl list?[/quote]

They can't get drafted from the SAAFL, they need to be registered with an SANFL club

[D14]

I was talking to a lad today who plays SANFL U18 and he told me that his club has had meetings with the U18 trying to keep them all at the club next year and not lose them to country clubs ect. Like they usually would.

Having spots open up on their lists and be able to keep more of the U18 talent in the SANFL would have to be a positive out of the afl in the SANFL. This lad has already been offered 400 a game in the country but he said he would rather stay for a better chance to get drafted if he was to be able to play against afl reserves.

Now you could say that spots would open up anyway if the afl left for the saafl but what then would stop U18's who don't get drafted from flocking to the crows to be top up players and try to enhance their chances of getting onto a afl list?[/quote]

They can't get drafted from the SAAFL, they need to be registered with an SANFL club

I thought that was the case but then I thought of the Ricky Henderson scenario where they discovered him at a basketball camp, got him to play a couple of games in a Vic country league (I could be mistaken though) then hide him for the rest of the season and pick him up as a rookie. I don't think he came from the alternative sport avenue and it says he was recruited from Trentham.

[Reddeer]

I blame Olsen's influence in this. He fd up the states power and now has fd up the SANFL
Wouldn't surprise me if he was the AFL's mole

[SDK]

A very incompetent man who has had far too much power all his life.

[Barto]

A very incompetent man who has had far too much power all his life.

Spot on.

[UK Fan]

I blame Olsen's influence in this. He fd up the states power and now has fd up the SANFL
Wouldn't surprise me if he was the AFL's mole

Whicker is the mole !!!!

[daysofourlives]

I was talking to a lad today who plays SANFL U18 and he told me that his club has had meetings with the U18 trying to keep them all at the club next year and not lose them to country clubs ect. Like they usually would.

Having spots open up on their lists and be able to keep more of the U18 talent in the SANFL would have to be a positive out of the afl in the SANFL. This lad has already been offered 400 a game in the country but he said he would rather stay for a better chance to get drafted if he was to be able to play against afl reserves.

Now you could say that spots would open up anyway if the afl left for the saafl but what then would stop U18's who don't get drafted from flocking to the crows to be top up players and try to enhance their chances of getting onto a afl list?[/quote]

They can't get drafted from the SAAFL, they need to be registered with an SANFL club

I thought that was the case but then I thought of the Ricky Henderson scenario where they discovered him at a basketball camp, got him to play a couple of games in a Vic country league (I could be mistaken though) then hide him for the rest of the season and pick him up as a rookie. I don't think he came from the alternative sport avenue and it says he was recruited from Trentham.

Im not sure but i believe they can be drafted from basically anywhere in Victoria. Could be Hudson your thinking of??

[UK Fan]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/sanfl-league-directors-under-intense-pressure-in-afl-reserves-debate/story-fnia3nqh-1226694525581

Rucci on the WWT meeting. At least he mentions that members will walk away..

Bwahhhh !!! Called this three months ago . You'll get the best thing for sa bs!!!!

Your responsible to club and its members. If the crows can be selfish why can't we.

As it says in the article Cavenett knows fall for that bs and you won't be cdfc president for very long. It's not a threat it's a promise.

Kurt Slaven is a joke to fall for that. Although I believe kurt was looking for any justification to approve this.

[saintal]

I didn't follow the WAFL developments last season too closely, but was doing a bit of reading on it last night. It's interesting that their clubs were so united in their resistance against it (until 2 sold out later on obviously..), which is a massive contrast to what our clubs are doing. In one of the articles Olsen is quoted:

Both AFL clubs want reserves teams in the SANFL but chairman John Olsen this week rejected their bid.

"Reserves teams in the SANFL for the two AFL clubs is not negotiable," Olsen said.

"That will not be part of our discussions on the licences.

"We will not compromise the SANFL competition (with AFL reserves teams)."

Oh but 12 months later we'll endorse their inclusion

[passionatelegsfan]

I am willing to give this a go with what Slaven put forward tonight. Under the proposed plan by the Football Commission I wouldn't have.

So whats the difference in what Slaven said last night and what the commission put forward? What changes have been made? Or is it just that Slaven is the better salesman of the same proposal?


And what happened to Norwoods adamant no and the bravado that went with that?

Slaven is definitely a better salesman than Trigg and co. I still think the current proposal that has been put forward is a joke.

I have always been of the opinion SA Football needs to work together. It can't just be a "$#^% off" AFL.

What made me go from adamant NO to acknowledging it could be a possibility, even a reasonable idea:

- Acknowledging kids want to play AFL football and it is the club's responsibility to give them the best opportunity to do this.

- Acknowledging SANFL clubs have multiple goals including providing the best pathway possible to produce AFL talent, and winning premierships.

- Thinking the Eagles and all other SANFL clubs will be their own clubs, with no on-field reliance on AFL clubs, but with the strength of an off-field relationship with South Australian football's biggest cash-cow. Thinking nothing changes when we play another SANFL club. Every club still remains.

- Having the Crows be the Crows and wearing their own uniform instead of being a wolf in sheep's clothing. This adds credibility. I got the impression Slaven wanted to beat the Crows for who they are, not restricting them so much as to having them in the competition purely to take their small amount of guaranteed money they'll offer, without having them competitive.

- Acknowledging the 42 players on the field will still be going hammer and tong. These AFL players are playing for their careers. Thinking at this stage at least, I wouldn't know who was going to win.

- The top-up list idea having two players from each club who can develop on an AFL list for a year. These players would be chosen by the SANFL clubs. They probably wouldn't be quite ready for league football, but would add reasonable depth to an AFL list. They then come back to the SANFL club with that experience. They would not be there for 6 weeks like the original proposal. Slaven said they wouldn't play against their SANFL club and you could have them back if they were to play league, but I think that squad of 16 should just be the Crows players for the year, or SANFL reserves if not picked. It gives the Crows Reserves coach something consistent to work with at least.

- The only choices given were Crows in SAAFL or Crows in SANFL League. There are no other options. So that dismisses the AFL Reserves or VFL option I thought should happen. A long term commitment from the Crows gives some confidence to the proposal. Acknowledging it is a ridiculous situation for South Australian football to have the Crows playing SAAFL.

- It wasn't the $40,000 each club would get that mattered, it was the profile given to the league through 7Mate and the Crows marketing power. If there are 3 new people that get on board to watch the Crows Reserves and it gets one of their mates back supporting an SANFL side and taking interest in the competition that is a good result.

- Having a mindset that we are doing the right thing by football in this state and therefore taking the moral high ground.

What I don't like is the reduction in salary cap. I think that automatically makes it look like the SANFL clubs are going to a lesser level. Increasing it slightly would give the impression the SANFL is serious about being the 2nd best competition in the land and not bending over to be purely a development league.

As I said earlier, I also believe that top up list should be made at the start of the season and left like that for the year, with the Crows having first use of who they want within that list. I also think if someone from their senior list is not performing to standard, they should be able to be dropped to Reserves level at another SANFL club. Or in the case of having 4 ruckman, for team balance, allow 1 or 2 of those ruckman to play Reserves level with another SANFL club. Have the Crows pick the best side they can from the 63 players on their list (less the top 22 who play AFL).

I am also not convinced Port should have the same model as the Crows. I brought up at the meeting the disadvantage the Eagles might have, given our geographic location, of taking a large chunk of Port's zone and having to give up a smaller piece of our zone so it evens out for all clubs. How would we penetrate the traditional Port heart land? We almost lost Henley Beach (our heartland according to Slaven) this year. If we lost Henley Beach, but gained Semaphore and Port Adelaide, how would we garner support? Yes, players would filter through but good luck getting those people supporting the Eagles instead of Port Adelaide any time soon. Central and North could have the same problem, although getting Salisbury to Central would probably be a good thing.

If Port are really wanting to maintain the club close to what it is, I would keep everything in place, but have the SANFL League team have to choose a squad of 16 Under 21 players from their own club as the top up list to the Power Reserves players. Once they get over 21 they either play Port reserves or try their luck at another club. I can see the problem of kids potentially wanting to be in the Port junior system so they have a better chance at being involved in an AFL club. Would need to weigh up the pros and cons. How important is it to Port Adelaide that they have links through to their own community and how much value is Port Adelaide really to other SANFL clubs?

You can list all the benefits you want but bottom line is that crows reserves = compromised sanfl. There is no way around this. In all the discussion nobody has convinced me that the integrity of the sanfl will be enhanced or even maintained. And there is no way anyone could convince me because you can not have a credible comp when one of the teams has a diffrent agenda.there is no precedent for this in any sport i know of. The whole idea is insane. Yiou will have cashed up sanfl clubs with nothing to play for because the comp will be a laughing stock.

[whufc]

Exactly could u imagine man united asking to their reserves in the championship or league one