AFL Reserves Discussion...

All discussions to do with the SANFL

Are you in favour of the proposal for the Crows Reserves to join the SANFL League competition?

Yes
35
17%
No
148
74%
Not fussed either way
18
9%
 
Total votes : 201

Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby Pseudo » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:55 pm

saintal wrote:Yep, integrity is the sticking point in this whole debate as far as I'm concerned, and unfortunately I think it will be sacrificed for $$.

I liked this definition: Integrity is a concept of consistency of actions, values, methods, measures, principles, expectations, and outcomes


Integrity and (particularly) relevance are nothing but weasel words in this debate. The definition of each will be twisted to suit the agenda of whoever claims to champion them.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby Aerie » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:56 pm

Pseudo wrote:
saintal wrote:Yep, integrity is the sticking point in this whole debate as far as I'm concerned, and unfortunately I think it will be sacrificed for $$.

I liked this definition: Integrity is a concept of consistency of actions, values, methods, measures, principles, expectations, and outcomes


Integrity and (particularly) relevance are nothing but weasel words in this debate. The definition of each will be twisted to suit the agenda of whoever claims to champion them.


Would it be fair to say there is no integrity in the word "integrity"?
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby Jase » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:59 pm

Having read the answers in the Q@A forum my hatred for the Crows just grows and grows....
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby LPH » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:02 pm

saintal wrote:I've tried my best to avoid 5AAFL where possible. Gets me too worked up. :oops:

I assume Bown showed the initiative to ring in and it wasn't an interview? Good on him. As for Rowey, he's done the full 180 on this matter. Quite sickening listening to him.


Yeah, he rang in - was 2nd or 3rd off the bat.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby Dutchy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:05 pm

is the members info night still on tomorrow night at WWT LEH?
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby Apachebulldog » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:06 pm

My email would of taken about 2 minutes to read i reckon they are dyslexic thats why they did not read it !!!!
SANFL 2000 - 2011 Central District 12 consecutive Grand Final appearances and 9 Premierships.

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Hit em hard let them get up and hit em again.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby Jimmy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:07 pm

Jase wrote:Having read the answers in the Q@A forum my hatred for the Crows just grows and grows....


They really have their heads in their ass round the reserves v saafl issue.
Carn the blues!!!!!
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby kneedeepinthehoopla » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:30 pm

Jase wrote:Having read the answers in the Q@A forum my hatred for the Crows just grows and grows....

Seem to be getting more airy-fairy the more he responds. Appreciate him doing it, but would like an answer to my, and others, follow up questions.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby Ecky » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:33 pm

saintal wrote: As for Rowey, he's done the full 180 on this matter. Quite sickening listening to him.

Are you saying Rowey has read the full 180 pages in this thread? :lol:
(Ironically your post was the last post on the 180th page!)
John Olsen, June 2012 wrote:"Reserves teams in the SANFL for the two AFL clubs is not negotiable.
We will not compromise the SANFL competition (with AFL reserves teams)."
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby areaman » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:25 pm

Dutchy wrote:is the members info night still on tomorrow night at WWT LEH?

On behalf of LEH, it most certainly is.

Will be fascinating to hear the update.

We've gone from YES to NO to maybe in a week.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby CUTTERMAN » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:26 pm

LEH wrote:Did anyone listen to Stuart Bown speak on 5AFL?
He mentioned Integrity, from a players perspective - conveyed Nick Dygan from Carlton going back to VFL Club.

Stuart was very much against the AFL Reserves in SANFL - he genuinely surprised both Rowe & McDermott with his viewpoint.
Rowe actually gave him a prize.

The main point he made was the rotation of AFL players for 'Club' players - even though a team plays well one week, the influx of Carlton players the following week upsets the team balance. He also suggested that the SANFL would remain the 2nd best competition (drawing players from interstate) despite the Crows having Reserves Team in SAAFL.

Was interesting to hear a player's point-of-view & the fact that he contradicted Rowe was most enjoyable - Rowe certainly expected the opposite.

It can't really be debated if the SANFL will be compromised 'Integrity-wise' because it clearly will be should AFC field a Reserves Team in the League competition. Surely, that's a given?

I heard the tail end of that LEH but didn't hear the full interview. Do you know what time it was approximately?
The other night Cam Mooney was a bit sympathetic to it being a stand alone state league and sounded a bit wary of the reserves proposal.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby Dutchy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:27 pm

Copy of an email sent out by the SAAFL to their clubs regarding the Crows, my understanding is it is not a done deal at all -

The Executive Committee & Management of SAAFL wish to provide the follow urgent update to clubs

At our last delegates meeting, we mentioned that we had been in confidential discussions about the possibility of the Adelaide Crows entering a team in our competition for 2014.

We indicated that we were a "Plan B” for the Crows and that we would keep you informed if anything changed.

The Executive Committee and Management are receptive to the Crows joining our competition as there is only upside in terms of its value to SAAFL in a number of areas.

To date we have no formal written agreement from the management of the Crows, but we have developed initial concepts and plans of how it would work.

To date, the SAAFL has played a low key approach, to respectfully allow the Adelaide Crows to pursue their preferred option of having their reserves team play in the SANFL competition.

Given today’s back page article in The Advertiser, and the increased awareness in the market that we are a legitimate "Plan B" for the Crows reserve team, we would like to advise our member clubs that we are very receptive to having them in our competition. If it plays out that we become the preferred option, we will require a formal detailed value proposition from the Crow management. The benefits of a reserve team in our competition are overwhelmingly positive and will be detailed to clubs if we become the preferred option. Until then we prefer not to speculate about the what if’s and we will advise all club of the next step if we become the Crow’s "Plan A".

Until such time, please be wary of what you read and hear in the media, and be confident that we will get the facts to you as they come to hand. On that note, we ask that you please refer all media contact on this matter to the SAAFL office as we prefer our business decisions made in-house and not through the media. If a club would like to make a comment to media, we request you please have it cleared first with the SAAFL CEO or General Manager – Football Operations.

For those that are unaware, we currently enjoy a positive and rewarding relationship with both the Adelaide Crows and Port Power with both clubs using our Thebarton Oval for training.

It should be noted that to date, we have not been approached directly by Port Power to discuss the possibility of their club entering a team into our competition in any form.

Further, having the AFL Adelaide Crows complement our league in today’s paper is a great testimony – “ In terms of quality of competition, the big bodies, access……..so that’s what we would do.” (page 76). This is a positive media week for SAAFL, and our brand, having announced our new Channel 9 partnership earlier this week.

Please be aware that the Channel 9 partnership does not start officially until next season. Guidelines for clubs participation opportunities will be communicated prior to next season and managed by the SAAFL Office. In any event clubs are not to contact Channel 9 directly.

From the SAAFL Executive Committee & Management team
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby adelaidefc » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:41 am

LEH wrote:Did anyone listen to Stuart Bown speak on 5AFL?
He mentioned Integrity, from a players perspective - conveyed Nick Dygan from Carlton going back to VFL Club.

Stuart was very much against the AFL Reserves in SANFL - he genuinely surprised both Rowe & McDermott with his viewpoint.
Rowe actually gave him a prize.

The main point he made was the rotation of AFL players for 'Club' players - even though a team plays well one week, the influx of Carlton players the following week upsets the team balance. He also suggested that the SANFL would remain the 2nd best competition (drawing players from interstate) despite the Crows having Reserves Team in SAAFL.

Was interesting to hear a player's point-of-view & the fact that he contradicted Rowe was most enjoyable - Rowe certainly expected the opposite.

It can't really be debated if the SANFL will be compromised 'Integrity-wise' because it clearly will be should AFC field a Reserves Team in the League competition. Surely, that's a given?


If that's what Stuart said, he's confused about the Carlton arrangement. They have an alignment with VFL club Northern Blues. That would be like the Crows taking over a Club in the SANFL and then squeezing out that's Club;s own players. Our reserves will be our team.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby whufc » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:55 am

I think it is you who might be confused

What he was saying is that it doesn't matter how well the team plays one week the balance of the side can be thrown out by who Carlton drop back.

Example being the Crows decide to go in real small one week (expecting extremly wet weather in adelaide)and play one specialist ruckmen, they may have Graham, Osborne, Dowdell etc etc all in the same side at the expense of the top up rover who got bog the week before because u have a full compliment of AFL players despite conditions not suiting
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby JohnnyG » Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:29 am

Jimmy wrote:
Jase wrote:Having read the answers in the Q@A forum my hatred for the Crows just grows and grows....


They really have their heads in their ass round the reserves v saafl issue.



On the contrary, I would suggest that most posters on here are the ones who "really have their heads in their ass".

Symptomatic of a natural fear of change and the response is to grasp and focus on the negatives and make mountains out of pin heads.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby SDK » Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:38 am

Then let the Crows present a decent case for their involvement. So far it has been like a bunch of school kids putting up a half baked proposal.
All clubs including Norwood have said lets see what is put on the table but time and time again .... nothing but half arsed bs !
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby mighty_tiger_79 » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:54 am

i only briefly heard Stuart Bown - the ex norwood player.

He made valid points against the reserves proposal and i think because he is Roweys mate, Rowey nor Bone argued against him., where they would have if it was just a regular Joe
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby LPH » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:16 am

adelaidefc wrote:
LEH wrote:Did anyone listen to Stuart Bown speak on 5AFL?
He mentioned Integrity, from a players perspective - conveyed Nick Dygan from Carlton going back to VFL Club.

Stuart was very much against the AFL Reserves in SANFL - he genuinely surprised both Rowe & McDermott with his viewpoint.
Rowe actually gave him a prize.

The main point he made was the rotation of AFL players for 'Club' players - even though a team plays well one week, the influx of Carlton players the following week upsets the team balance. He also suggested that the SANFL would remain the 2nd best competition (drawing players from interstate) despite the Crows having Reserves Team in SAAFL.

Was interesting to hear a player's point-of-view & the fact that he contradicted Rowe was most enjoyable - Rowe certainly expected the opposite.

It can't really be debated if the SANFL will be compromised 'Integrity-wise' because it clearly will be should AFC field a Reserves Team in the League competition. Surely, that's a given?


If that's what Stuart said, he's confused about the Carlton arrangement. They have an alignment with VFL club Northern Blues. That would be like the Crows taking over a Club in the SANFL and then squeezing out that's Club;s own players. Our reserves will be our team.


Isn't it interesting how one might read/hear words how one wishes, David?
He DID say that Nick Dygan believed that it was a problem for the VFL Club players when the Carlton players came into their side - unsurprisingly.

Your Club's domination of the debate via Media in this city is disgusting - alternative view points are given very little 'coverage'.
We should not be surprised as that is the 'Corporate Model' - Corporations have being influencing media bias for ever.

What you (the Crows) have underestimated is the Anti-Crows/Anit-AFL sentiment among many SA Footy supporters.

You will most likely get your way - but it is unlikely to change, in any significant way, your supporter base.
What it will do however is change the supporter base of many SANFL Clubs because many will 'walk away' - Well Done.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby Agile » Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:36 am

Have gone back to the North Adelaide Football Club website to re-read the last reply from our CEO on Virtual Runner. It's been removed. Pity, because it was an enlightening little piece with some of the latest proposals from the AFC, apparently. Supposedly, I am only assuming, because it was something I have not heard to date.

If what Greg wrote is correct, IF, the AFC have moved some distance from the previously assumed position.I say assumed, because from my understanding, there has not been a detailed proposal from the AFC that is officially in the public domain.

The " facts" as per Gregs post are a game changer for me. They make the whole debate re a reserves team in our comp seem workable. IN MY HUMBLE OPINION.

Continue the healthy debate, but do not make up your mind and set it in concrete until all the facts are before you.

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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby rod_rooster » Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:44 am

Here's the post Agile is refering to that has since been deleted from the Virtual Runner.

Virtual Runner wrote:Administration
I can give you some information on name calling.....The crap that I've copped is far worse than anything written by Grenville's Boots....

Let me give you my two bobs worth. When someone tells me the financial and football related positives of moving the SANFL back in time to an 8 team, non AFL funded competition, then I'll be with you.

For me, the key question surely is this.......wouldn't it be better to make and enforce the rules and regulations that govern the 2 x AFL clubs in SA rather than compete with them? Surely having control of their actions, their spending and how they conduct themselves in our competition is what we need? Do our supporters really want this club competing with the AFL, making their own rules, using the money they have, the media profile they generate and do we want to be up against the amateur league??

And,

- Any licence fees would be paid on an annual basis, indexed. Not short-lived.
- no SANFL clubs have to provide any top up players, so that is a non issue.
- the AFL clubs will not get any more TV broadcast coverage than anyone else. In fact, the Crows have offered to assist in the introduction of channel 7 by having their partners sponsor the broadcasts for the SANFL. This TV deal is huge, 5 camera's, press conferences, mid week shows etc. Surely that is a positive?

The decision is with Bohdan, and he is working hard to gather the information he needs to be clear on this topic. If you want members information sessions, then surely you want him to be able to respond accordingly with valuable information? To portray this Board or Bohdan himself as undemocratic is nonsense. No one is more passionate about this Club than Bohdan. He has been instrumental in this clubs survival and a key person in the decision making process for years. He is a strategic thinker and should be respected.

Look, I don’t get a vote, but I do have an opinion which is purely based on our clubs needs for the future. That’s my job, so forgive me if I only seem interested in the well being of NAFC in this debate. If the vote is a NO, then we get on with the task of working through how to minimize the impact of having AFL clubs in a competing local competition, planning for potential funding losses, how we keep the SANFL in the media and how we work with our players, coaches and any new recruits on the changes to the competition. I'm up for that and look forward to the challenge!. If the vote is a YES, then we can move forward with perhaps more financial confidence, we would carefully plan the rules and regulations which will govern the AFL clubs entry, prepare our membership, our increased media opportunities and sponsorship plans and work with players, coaches and any new recruits on the changes to the competition. Both sides of the debate has pro's and con's and most of those will not be known until something is in place either way. In or out, we should be trusting that the Board and management of this club is not the enemy.
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