AFL Reserves Discussion...

All discussions to do with the SANFL

Are you in favour of the proposal for the Crows Reserves to join the SANFL League competition?

Yes
35
17%
No
148
74%
Not fussed either way
18
9%
 
Total votes : 201

Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby UK Fan » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:16 am

Booney wrote:
JK wrote:All good points TC. Given the WA clubs additional revenue would also in part be off-set be a much higher cost base, we'd probably need to see the net effect.
That aside I was just relaying Olsen's comments, not judging them (or Port). I also took the same as you from Koch's grab, that his disdain was toward the stadium deal they have been under, not excusing attendance rates.


Correct. We cant walk away from our poor attendance record of the last 3-4 years....but couple that with a stadium deal that seems to be outdated (the old "Port need 27,000 to go or they lose money") and clearly home games have cost Port money instead of being a win for the accountants.

UK will no doubt chime in here, but surely all parties (people on here included) can see that the SANFL own Ports licence, surely the SANFL as owners of Football Park needed to review the stadium deal? Once again, we cant hide from our poor attendance record of late.


All I need do is quote Macca with my signature. Not even port fans believe that garbage boon. It's a sky is falling theory wouldn't ya say :-)


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1. Crows have got nothing to offer

2. He has made it so obvious the crows are bluffing re Ammos
Last edited by UK Fan on Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby tipper » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:23 am

Booney wrote:
JK wrote:All good points TC. Given the WA clubs additional revenue would also in part be off-set be a much higher cost base, we'd probably need to see the net effect.
That aside I was just relaying Olsen's comments, not judging them (or Port). I also took the same as you from Koch's grab, that his disdain was toward the stadium deal they have been under, not excusing attendance rates.


Correct. We cant walk away from our poor attendance record of the last 3-4 years....but couple that with a stadium deal that seems to be outdated (the old "Port need 27,000 to go or they lose money") and clearly home games have cost Port money instead of being a win for the accountants.

UK will no doubt chime in here, but surely all parties (people on here included) can see that the SANFL own Ports licence, surely the SANFL as owners of Football Park needed to review the stadium deal? Once again, we cant hide from our poor attendance record of late.


while i dont disagree with looking at the stadium deal, and working towards an outcome that (hopefully) suits all parties, i dont think it is fair for the landlord (ie the sanfl) to cop the financial losses because the tennant (in this case Port) cant run a successful function. i think something does need to change, but i also believe that the sanfl should still be entitled to make money form their stake in the stadium management authority. it is far from an easy problem to solve.

at least when the sanfl no longer hole the licences for the afl clubs any (possible) future losses wont have to be underwritten by them.

on a slight tangent to the above, others mentioning the money the sanfl has paid to the power, i didnt think they were loans? i thought it was bailout money? i am happy to be corrected, but i had the impression at the time that the sanfl would never see that money again. they were grants, not loans. i never recall hearing at the time about interest rates or repayment plans...

if they were loans, someone needs their arse kicked as it is surely financially irresponsible to loan such vast sums of money to an organisation bleeding so much cash?
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby TimmiesChin » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:26 am

LEH wrote:Sorry, I know off track of my OWN thread, but sort of related due to Olsen Interview...

Doesn't the attendance effect the 'bottom line' in terms of revenue?
I may be mistaken but I would assume the following:
Fremantle getting 40K attendance compared to Port getting 22K would result in 18000 less buying beer, food, merchandise etc. - not to mention Club turnover before & after matches.
Would this not mean that Fremantle's 'Stadium Deal' is better than Port's?
As a result, will moving to Adelaide Oval change anything - in terms of the above?


Yes Attendance absolutely effects bottom line, hence why it can't be ignored and is something the club can work to address (and is).

However I prefer the Eagles v Crows comparison - both averaged 36K/37Kish last year. Isn't it reasonable to assume there should be comparable returns ?

Basically attendance and stadium yields are linked, but are also two separate levers to the equation.

If Port got double the attendance they currently do they would make more, just like if they got a bigger slice of the profits that do get made each weekend they would make more.

Only focussing on attendances (growing the pie as Whicker calls it) solves half the problem.



tipper wrote:while i dont disagree with looking at the stadium deal, and working towards an outcome that (hopefully) suits all parties, i dont think it is fair for the landlord (ie the sanfl) to cop the financial losses because the tennant (in this case Port) cant run a successful function. i think something does need to change, but i also believe that the sanfl should still be entitled to make money form their stake in the stadium management authority. it is far from an easy problem to solve.


I agree with all of this, apart from the fact the SANFL cops the financial loss. They don't cop the losses now, and unless I'm mistaken, there aren't losses from hosting games now, the games are making a profit, its just that the way the profits are divided means Port loses money.

(Ie - what Port loses for home games is less than the profit the SANFL are making for these same games)

Furthermore, as the clubs are having to cover the costs, the majority of 'risk' seems to sit with them.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby tipper » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:47 am

sorry, didnt explain very well. i meant that if the deal was changed and the sanfl ended up copping the loss, that shouldnt happen. i didnt mean that they have to wear it now (unless you count the bailout money.....)

the sanfl have a right to expect a fair return on their investment (either footy park or being part of the stadium management authority with adelaide oval) what is deemed fair is what is up for debate.

and certainly the risk of profit or loss should sit with the clubs. it is their function. the sanfl are just renting them the premises. if you owned a building in rundle mall, you wouldnt lower the rent you charge to be less than you council rates just because the store that was renting it wasnt attracting customers. you would also not charge unreasonably hight rent either, or wou wouldnt get any business in there at all.

there needs to be a balance, but it cant all be tilted in the clubs favour.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby TimmiesChin » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:03 pm

tipper wrote:and certainly the risk of profit or loss should sit with the clubs. it is their function. the sanfl are just renting them the premises. if you owned a building in rundle mall, you wouldnt lower the rent you charge to be less than you council rates just because the store that was renting it wasnt attracting customers. you would also not charge unreasonably hight rent either, or wou wouldnt get any business in there at all.

there needs to be a balance, but it cant all be tilted in the clubs favour.


Yep - correct, and the bolded points are the key. What the SANFL have in their favour is that they are the only venue available to the clubs so don't have to be price competitive.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby tipper » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:13 pm

TimmiesChin wrote:
tipper wrote:and certainly the risk of profit or loss should sit with the clubs. it is their function. the sanfl are just renting them the premises. if you owned a building in rundle mall, you wouldnt lower the rent you charge to be less than you council rates just because the store that was renting it wasnt attracting customers. you would also not charge unreasonably hight rent either, or wou wouldnt get any business in there at all.

there needs to be a balance, but it cant all be tilted in the clubs favour.


Yep - correct, and the bolded points are the key. What the SANFL have in their favour is that they are the only venue available to the clubs so don't have to be price competitive.


pity about that isnt it... ;)
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby LPH » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:14 pm

So what is stopping Port developing Alberton to 30K - with standing room included?
Once their license is sold back to them, would THAT not mean they would get 100% of the match day turn over - aka Geelong?
They could play their 'blockbuster game' (Showdown) @ the neutral venue of Adelaide Oval, but the other home games there.
Wouldn't that be more economically sound?
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby heater31 » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:17 pm

LEH wrote:So what is stopping Port developing Alberton to 30K - with standing room included?
Once their license is sold back to them, would THAT not mean they would get 100% of the match day turn over - aka Geelong?
They could play their 'blockbuster game' (Showdown) @ the neutral venue of Adelaide Oval, but the other home games there.
Wouldn't that be more economically sound?


Don't the PAE council still own Alberton oval? Doubt they or the PAFC would be able to fund such a development.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby TimmiesChin » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:18 pm

LEH wrote:So what is stopping Port developing Alberton to 30K - with standing room included?
Once their license is sold back to them, would THAT not mean they would get 100% of the match day turn over - aka Geelong?
They could play their 'blockbuster game' (Showdown) @ the neutral venue of Adelaide Oval, but the other home games there.
Wouldn't that be more economically sound?


Its not allowed. SANFL has got contracts from AFL well into the future, both before and after the Adelaide oval move came about.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby tipper » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:20 pm

TimmiesChin wrote:
LEH wrote:So what is stopping Port developing Alberton to 30K - with standing room included?
Once their license is sold back to them, would THAT not mean they would get 100% of the match day turn over - aka Geelong?
They could play their 'blockbuster game' (Showdown) @ the neutral venue of Adelaide Oval, but the other home games there.
Wouldn't that be more economically sound?


Its not allowed. SANFL has got contracts from AFL well into the future, both before and after the Adelaide oval move came about.


once again, pity about that. looks like port are shit outta luck.

just to bring things back on track: NO AFL IN THE SANFL!!
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby gossipgirl » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:27 pm

tipper wrote:
TimmiesChin wrote:
LEH wrote:So what is stopping Port developing Alberton to 30K - with standing room included?
Once their license is sold back to them, would THAT not mean they would get 100% of the match day turn over - aka Geelong?
They could play their 'blockbuster game' (Showdown) @ the neutral venue of Adelaide Oval, but the other home games there.
Wouldn't that be more economically sound?


Its not allowed. SANFL has got contracts from AFL well into the future, both before and after the Adelaide oval move came about.


once again, pity about that. looks like port are shit outta luck.

just to bring things back on track: NO AFL IN THE SANFL!!


Shouldnt that be NO AFL IN THE SANFL and then there will be NO SANFL in the long term :(
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby Hazydog » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:41 pm

So do we know what the agenda is for the Directors only meeting tonight? Have the Crows resubmitted a new "top up player" proposal for them to consider?
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby passionatelegsfan » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:54 pm

LEH wrote:So what is stopping Port developing Alberton to 30K - with standing room included?Once their license is sold back to them, would THAT not mean they would get 100% of the match day turn over - aka Geelong?
They could play their 'blockbuster game' (Showdown) @ the neutral venue of Adelaide Oval, but the other home games there.
Wouldn't that be more economically sound?


Are you serious? Who would want to go and watch an AFL game at that shithole?
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby Apachebulldog » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:57 pm

Hey everyone i have been checking out the VFL site trying to get stats on attendances for last weekend games a post from Brekky DJ over there reckons there were only 100 to 150 people attended the Box Hill Hawks versus Bendigo Gold game i have also have heard that other VFL games also had very dismal attendances on the same weekend even though the the price to attend a game is only $10 can some one tell me does the VFL publish crowd numbers .

Can anyone obtain the crowd numbers would be very interesting ?????

Also on one of the forums they are complaining about a lack of VFL coverage in the main stream Melbourne newspapers sound familiar.

All the above in a city with FOUR MILLION PEOPLE.

If all the above is true how can the introduction of a Crows side in the SANFL be beneficial to the competition ???????
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby tipper » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:00 pm

gossipgirl wrote:
Shouldnt that be NO AFL IN THE SANFL and then there will be NO SANFL in the long term :(


bullshit.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby areaman » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:01 pm

gossipgirl wrote:Shouldnt that be NO AFL IN THE SANFL and then there will be NO SANFL in the long term :(

As opposed to going in for the quick kill overnight.

It will exist in name only.
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby Booney » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:03 pm

passionatelegsfan wrote:
LEH wrote:So what is stopping Port developing Alberton to 30K - with standing room included?Once their license is sold back to them, would THAT not mean they would get 100% of the match day turn over - aka Geelong?
They could play their 'blockbuster game' (Showdown) @ the neutral venue of Adelaide Oval, but the other home games there.
Wouldn't that be more economically sound?


Are you serious? Who would want to go and watch an AFL game at that shithole?


You're welcome down there at any stage for a meal or beer. They are quite nice club rooms, you know what clubrooms are?
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby UK Fan » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:06 pm

gossipgirl wrote:
tipper wrote:
TimmiesChin wrote:
LEH wrote:So what is stopping Port developing Alberton to 30K - with standing room included?
Once their license is sold back to them, would THAT not mean they would get 100% of the match day turn over - aka Geelong?
They could play their 'blockbuster game' (Showdown) @ the neutral venue of Adelaide Oval, but the other home games there.
Wouldn't that be more economically sound?


Its not allowed. SANFL has got contracts from AFL well into the future, both before and after the Adelaide oval move came about.


once again, pity about that. looks like port are shit outta luck.

just to bring things back on track: NO AFL IN THE SANFL!!


Shouldnt that be NO AFL IN THE SANFL and then there will be NO SANFL in the long term :(


Why do you even bother?
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby beenreal » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:11 pm

Booney wrote:
passionatelegsfan wrote:
LEH wrote:So what is stopping Port developing Alberton to 30K - with standing room included?Once their license is sold back to them, would THAT not mean they would get 100% of the match day turn over - aka Geelong?
They could play their 'blockbuster game' (Showdown) @ the neutral venue of Adelaide Oval, but the other home games there.
Wouldn't that be more economically sound?


Are you serious? Who would want to go and watch an AFL game at that shithole?


You're welcome down there at any stage for a meal or beer. They are quite nice club rooms, you know what clubrooms are?


They're the local RSL or pub aren't they?
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Re: AFL Reserves Discussion...

Postby Dutchy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:13 pm

Foxtel Cup seems to have plenty of interest and support WITHOUT AFL players, so why all the doom and gloom that the SANFL can't exist without AFL influence?
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